Today’s MGoPodcast Thoughts
This is probably the first podcast in which Dave Brian and Ace don’t hold back on their Harbaugh criticisms.
It also seems like they’re resigned to the fact that bad game management, Bambi status on the road and general sloppiness is a defining characteristic from the top.
Any way to fix this? Was he like this in San Fran and Stanford? What the hell.
October 21st, 2019 at 8:45 AM ^
I can handle the conservative playcalls and puzzling decision making on 4th down. Some coaches you just have the live with it. What is really getting to me is the disorganization from top to bottom. Like they pointed out, you finally get a good game from Shea, then everyone else makes dumb errors. The timeout before the first offensive play, the drops, the missed coverage on Hamler. This has been the case for 4+ seasons. Even with the atrocious officiating against OSU in 2016 we still had a chance to win big (the two interceptions deep in our own territory that led to OSU points and the fumble at the goal line). Professional coaches at the top level don't have this stuff happen with this frequency. It's maddening, but we're stuck with it.
October 21st, 2019 at 9:08 AM ^
I'm still holding out hope that once we finally get some consistency on this program's offensive identity the coaches will have greater time to focus on the finer points. Everyone only has so much mental capacity and while the offense is changing its identity 1-2 times per season I can imagine that takes a toll on both the players and coaches.
It's entirely anecdotal, but last year we had a returning OC and lost three fumbles.
October 21st, 2019 at 9:42 AM ^
Wouldn't you want to focus on finer points first? No sense in spending all time on learning a new offense when small mistakes end up screwing you anyway.
October 21st, 2019 at 9:48 AM ^
Well, it's funny how the basic things can get lost when bigger topics demand greater focus. You expect collegiate football players to know how to catch a ball and get lined up so, while installing a brand new offense, you probably dedicate very little practice time to these things. Then here you are in Happy Valley thinking so much about this first drive and, whoops, the playclock is down to 5 seconds!
Once the big things become more automatic the simple fundamental things don't get crowded out anymore.
October 21st, 2019 at 9:53 AM ^
Not if you are going to make the offensive change "like pulling off a bandaid" as opposed to incrementally. It is possible that Harbaugh realized that the program could not truly contend until it modernized its offense and decided he was just going with the whole ball of wax at once and he just accepted that there were going to be growing pains.
I think the media narrative about Michigan's expectations and Harbaugh's expectations were not aligned at all. I think he is using this year to try to essentially recreate the offense anew and did not believe they would really contend this year. I think that largely explains the disconnect between how the offense looked and Harbaugh's comments about "hitting its stride" etc. I think "hitting its stride" is code for "starting to get it" but the ladder sounds too much like he is mailing in this season and he doesn't want to give that impression.
The offense did some really nice things in the second half of that game. PSU didn't "take its foot off the gas" or anything like that, their defense just got their ass kicked for the entire second half of the game. Redzone is certainly an issue for Michigan, but I think it is on the agenda once they get comfortable with the offense at large. Assuming the personnel we have right now remains engaged and continues to want to grow with the offense(this is a big if for our upperclassmen receivers I think), I think we will be humming by the end of the season.
October 21st, 2019 at 10:20 AM ^
I agree with this.
I'm not drinking the Harbaugh Kool-Aid (anymore), but I think the PSU performance makes sense when put into context of a football coach readjusting his entire offensive philosophy in a good way to address realities. Just bring able to do so is a victory in and of itself.
The clueless Wisconsin loss appears differently when retrospectively evaluated after a PSU performance that demonstrates clear improvement in a new offense.
I'm still open to a coaching change, but only if something clearly better that Harbaugh shows up as available. Not seeing that in marketplace now. So better to ride the growing pains out. Again.
October 21st, 2019 at 11:53 AM ^
you do realize that whatever growing pains are going on right now - and there are clearly some on offense - would be ten times that with any new coaching staff, right?
People calling for a coaching change are insane for this reason. Another 4 years wasted unless we get a Saban or Meyer, which we're not.
October 21st, 2019 at 1:51 PM ^
How are you already chalking up a new coaching staff needing 4 years? What program that's hired a new coach to turn things around has needed 4 years?
October 21st, 2019 at 3:04 PM ^
Do you not remember the last two coaching transitions?
October 21st, 2019 at 4:06 PM ^
I remember Hoke going 11-2 his first year and Harbaugh going 10-3 his first year. That's their problem neither could build their program with their own recruits. Find someone who can.
October 21st, 2019 at 5:00 PM ^
Was referencing Rich Rod and Hoke. Harbaugh more or less came in rolling.
October 21st, 2019 at 12:46 PM ^
I'm convinced the change in offensive style was 100% necessary and we are essentially handicapping ourselves for this season to achieve it.
However, I still want the old Jim Harbaugh back. Gunslinger Jim. Captain Comeback. These are unpaid college kids who play for each other and their parents and for the glory. This game, especially at the college level, has to be played with joy and exuberance, in full-attack mode from the opening whistle.
It was encouraging as hell to see them summon up the fight in this game, down in a big hole in a very hostile environment. That's the best they've played in quite some time. They were going for it, playing to win. I hope the light went on for all of them, and especially the head coach.
October 21st, 2019 at 10:35 AM ^
Holy shit. A rational take. I have not watched the game, have read the summaries and the hot takes. It sounds like little things have been put on the back burner while things like the play book gets worked on. That's the way it is. It sounds like our newbie OC overreached. Kinda like the last time Michigan went full spread.
This shit is going to take time. It took PSU 6 weeks of the season to get it with a guy who had been OC before and understood implementation. Now we have a guy who's never been "the guy" and he's starting to get what he has to do. I think.
October 21st, 2019 at 11:24 AM ^
Agreed. I rant and rave during games, but keep a cooler head after them. Minus the truly atrocious, outrageous officiating (which I guess I should’ve factored in as a fait accompli), the PSU game went roughly as I expected, figuring the simplest explanation for our previous struggles was the best: transitional costs exacerbated by early season injuries to key personnel and an almost unprecedented number of turnovers forcing a regression in implementing the new O and a wonky reversion to a more “trusted” philosophy (the overused term “turtling”) in games we needed to win and could through more conventional means. My friends called me crazy to think we would beat PSU 34-20...but we probably should have.
I think last year’s OSU game convinced Harbaugh it was time to modernize the O to keep pace with our most hated rival. Harbaugh’s a Michigan purist like the rest of us — I think that loss hurt him, bad, and it did the job for him mentally. I think it was enough for him to decide it was time to change with the times or be outgunned in a modern era of college football and this is just the price we pay. I still have major issues with his situational coaching and playcalling, but he’s a good coach, if not a great one, and we have good players, if not great ones, and I’m not surprised Saturday was a competitive match, nor will I be if we beat a very solid Notre Dame team this weekend as things start to come together.
October 21st, 2019 at 12:06 PM ^
Agree with your point. I do wonder if the upper class WR’s had eyes on the NFL at the start of the year. I don’t know, but I find it curious that Ronnie Bell is out performing them. Also I wonder if Shea was hoping to be one and done, and had to get his mind straight for the offense to work. I hope we get to see them clicking on all cylinders by the end of the season.
October 21st, 2019 at 9:15 AM ^
I think the offensive adjustments that you saw in the second half were a really good sign. I think that things are beginning to click on the offensive side of the ball. At some point the gigantic game-changing defensive busts are going to have to be addressed. It doesn't matter how spectacular the defense is for large chunks, when the other ten percent of the game consists of back-breaking 50 yard touchdowns it isn't going to work.
October 21st, 2019 at 9:28 AM ^
I agree that things are moving forward and looking better. Perhaps Urban Meyer was correct that it takes a whole half season to install an offense like this. Whatever they do, I hope they just get a system in place and stick with it for years. That is what Franklin is doing even after losing his OC, and it's clearly helping them win games, despite the fact that he's a terrible gameday coach.
October 21st, 2019 at 10:30 AM ^
I think you saw some growth and maturity out of Gattis in the play calling against PSU. No matter how you spin it every 1st year play caller should have some learning to experience.
October 21st, 2019 at 11:53 AM ^
After reading I think one of Brian's columns(?) where basically it said OSU has been on the leading edge of spread/ power spread stuff for 15 years now while Michigan has been changing either the offensive or defensive scheme almost constantly in the interim, I really would rather keep this staff in place for years just to let everything settle in and get some consistency. Right now Harbaugh's average in 9-10 wins. I'm fine with that. Lighting everything on fire every few years is a great way to stay behind OSU forever and become North Tennessee
October 21st, 2019 at 10:39 AM ^
OSU is going to obliterate this defense again if Brown doesn't come up with something better. The man to man gets exposed badly against elite athletes
October 21st, 2019 at 12:22 PM ^
OSU is going to obliterate every defense. They are painfully good this year. Sucks but I don’t get hand wringing about what they will do to our defense/ Don Brown as if they won’t do that to everyone on their schedule
October 21st, 2019 at 2:07 PM ^
Only fucking OSU trades Tate Martell for a guy that should be sitting out and he runs like Barrett and throws like Haskins.
October 21st, 2019 at 9:57 AM ^
Even you, evenyoubrutus? Sorry just wanted to say that.
October 21st, 2019 at 10:19 AM ^
It's not that I loved Jim Harbaugh less, but that I love Michigan more.
October 21st, 2019 at 1:08 PM ^
Hear hear
October 21st, 2019 at 10:22 AM ^
See, to me so much of this is revisionist history. I wrote this elsewhere, but last year UM had the 8th-fewest TOs in the country and were penalized quite a bit (65 yards per game). This year? One of the worst TO rates in the country but cut down almost 20 yards in penalties. But people won't accept that transition to a new offense, some struggles by your previously sure-handed receivers, and damn randomness are involved. No, it's gotta be about some holistic failure of the head coach.
Michigan had something like 12 drops recorded in UFR all of last year; they've had 12 or so thus far, and I think Brian is being a bit too generous with his scoring of what is uncatchable. Did the team just forget how to catch the ball year-to-year? I don't know, but that seems unlikely.
Also, Michigan was 3 yards away from tying or taking the lead in this game despite some bad luck and atrocious officiating. It's not like they turtled and died under pressure; they came back and made a game of it.
I get Brian and co. want Harbaugh gone - ever since he made the comment about Harbaugh possibly suffering some mental issues due to his playing days the writing was on the wall. I think it's bullshit and welcomes UM back on the treadmill of self-inflicted mediocrity they've been on for over a decade, but I also didn't coin the term BPONE so maybe I'm just blowing sunshine out of my ass.
October 21st, 2019 at 10:39 AM ^
"Coaching Searches" and "Hotseats" are a lot better for business than "Stability" if you're in the business of selling clicks to advertisers.
October 21st, 2019 at 11:11 AM ^
I don’t think Brian or anyone on the podcast “wants Harbaugh gone”.
What I heard was frustration and/or acceptance that some things: tempo/time management, sloppiness at times, and “incorrect” game theory decisions may just be things we have to live with while Harbaugh is coach.
October 21st, 2019 at 11:49 AM ^
I guess I've been around here long enough to see this story play out. I mean, it's not like a bunch of people online will bring about a coaching change, but happily chugging along at 10-ish wins a year but having some issues isn't a steady-state I've seen at this blog. Again, maybe it's just me reading too much into it, but BPONE isn't going to disappear from the vernacular around here.
October 21st, 2019 at 11:57 AM ^
I get the frustration, especially considering we tried a 58-yard FG with a kicker that can't kick it that far. Boggles the mind.
We trot Nordin out on the shorties that are Moody's specialty, he misses.
Nordin has the big leg, but we send Moody out there for the 58-yarder.
EDIT: Apparently Nordin was/is injured. Thanks, jmblue.
Ugh. The disorganization of this team is reflected in the kicking game.
October 21st, 2019 at 12:03 PM ^
Per Harbaugh's postgame presser, Nordin was working through an injury.
October 21st, 2019 at 12:44 PM ^
That’s even worse! Just fucking go for it. Set the tone. If Paul Chryst can do it, so can Harbaugh!!!!
October 22nd, 2019 at 12:28 PM ^
I mean, it's hard to remember now since it was nearly 15 years ago now, but this blog was more or less explicitly anti-Lloyd Carr from it's founding until the day he retired. I think you might assume Brian to be a rational and level headed fan who appreciates only what the data tells him to, probably because he was incredibly rational about Rich Rod. But it's also possible that a guy who wasn't happy with Michigan in 2004 has an incredibly high bar for what he wants from this program and the return to 8-10 wins annually ain't it.
Personally? I'll take this for another few years at least before I get discontented.
October 21st, 2019 at 10:50 AM ^
Yeah, defensive meltdown. Don't understand how we can't put together a whole team effort against the good teams. Out played Penn State in this game except for the big plays given up by the defense so the score doesn't match with the stats of the game. Just frustrating that Don Brown's defense is getting crushed so bad in big plays. If Penn State can do it, what will Ohio do? Might be worse than last year the way they are playing.
October 21st, 2019 at 12:17 PM ^
While it's frustrating to give up big plays, I don't agree that it was a "meltdown" by the defense. PSU's got some good skill players and takes lots of shots downfield. It's pretty tough to totally shut them down. Ultimately they had 28 points (only seven after halftime), not an insurmountable total.
October 21st, 2019 at 8:44 PM ^
The coach didn’t throw the int’s or fumble the ball against OSU. A coach needs to put his players in position to be successful the players need to make plays.
Now In saying this I’m not absolving the coaching of this team they have their share of blame to go around and some game time decisions have been head scratching
October 21st, 2019 at 8:51 AM ^
If only there were a post on the main page where mogpodcast comments could go.
October 21st, 2019 at 8:55 AM ^
It was posted late.
October 21st, 2019 at 9:01 AM ^
Main page post timestamp: 8:37
Mgoboard post timestamp: 8:39
Further, you knew it was coming. You could have waited.
I'm not mad, I'm just getting in the obvious snark.
October 21st, 2019 at 9:33 AM ^
On the other hand, nobody seems to read the comments section on the podcasts posts. So typically a discussion on the board is going to have more discussion and traffic.
October 21st, 2019 at 9:44 AM ^
True enough. If the MGoBoard Council would come together and put in its bylaws that MGoPodcast comments shall be hereby moved to the MGoBoard, I would be fine with that. In the meantime, I think the thread would have been better served with a different title that was about the specific topic the OP wanted to address, even if still referencing the MGoPocast (similar to the CTE discussion).
October 21st, 2019 at 12:19 PM ^
And for a troll like the OP, he wants maximum traffic to see his inflammatory takes.
He's in the Troll Cave for me, but unfortunately this great tool doesn't prevent new board posts from being seen(only comments). It would be hilarious if board posts from a troll like The Cube also said "Troll Content Removed" when on the Board.
October 21st, 2019 at 1:05 PM ^
Considering the paragraphs long posts by people in this thread, it seems like you’re the inflammatory troll here to just be a malcontent.
October 21st, 2019 at 10:41 AM ^
It came up as I was typing. My b?
October 21st, 2019 at 9:35 AM ^
Are you and Sydney Blart brothers?
October 21st, 2019 at 9:14 AM ^
Seems like there is a faction of the fanbase who wants Harbaugh gone, a faction that think Harbaugh is about as good as we can do an is resigned to 8-10 wins seasons and continued losses to OSU and struggles against the other teams we care about, and a faction who is still hanging on to optimism and "next year".
Let's assume most responses here will be lightly veiled versions of those three groups.
Meanwhile we can all argue points that can't be really be definitely proven and are still stuck with the reality that a ever-rotating combination of bad luck, officiating, coaching, on-field play, and opponent strength will seemingly continue to doom Michigan football until we sacrifice a goat to whatever deity had decided to exact its revenge upon us for some unknown past sins.
October 21st, 2019 at 9:47 AM ^
I'm ready for C. Woodson as HC, Marcus Ray as DC and Desmond Howard as OC (with Mike Hart as RB coach). All are very opinionated and I'm sure know how to fix all that is wrong.
October 21st, 2019 at 10:27 AM ^
You better add Jake Long, Steve Hutchinson, and Jumbo Elliot to that staff to because all of them too have made comments basically saying "Wtf is this shit?"
October 21st, 2019 at 9:51 AM ^
I will slaughter 1000 goats if that's what it takes. I like goat meat anyway, I'll just buy a few freezers and donate some to soup kitchens.
October 21st, 2019 at 9:58 AM ^
But please spare Tom Brady, ok?