A thought concerning officating accountability...
Here’s a thought that might change things in the future.
What if, after every game, the officials were required to be kept in a viewing room, and each coaching staff could go in and ask them about 2-3 particular calls or non-calls, with video review evidence supplied, so that officials would be required to justify their calls?
To make it fair, a conference rep could sit in and make sure that coaches would speak and act in a civil manner, not threatening the officials. Professionalism would be required, and a limit of 2-3 plays could be addressed by the coach. Any coach which violated this would forfeit their opportunity and/or pay a fine for inappropriate behavior.
At the same time, this would make officials be more accountable for their calls, and if a call was proven to be incorrect, the official would have to provide a formal apology or at least an admission of error. After all, coaches and players are required to be held responsible for in-game actions, sometimes publicly, why not officials?
I think that doing this might force better officiating for the future, and it might also establish more precedent for later rules and reviews, much like case law in court. In addition, it's also fair to the officials, as they might have had a reasoning or piece of information not readily seen by the coach, so they could better explain their calls, and the coach can understand why a call went a certain way, and therefore he would not have an issue with the same scenarios in the future, should it occur.
What say you?
November 6th, 2021 at 5:17 PM ^
Man we haven't even played yet and there's 2 officiating threads in the last couple of hours.
November 6th, 2021 at 5:19 PM ^
Feel free to actually address the content of the post.
November 6th, 2021 at 5:27 PM ^
I’m your Huckleberry...
The content of this OP is crap. Let it go. There have been numerous threads regarding officiating. We don’t need another. M had chances to win. They f’d themselves over with numerous penalties, dropped passes and fumbles. M was the better team. And while officials had an impact, they didn’t give Sparty the win.
And even if they did - your stupid ideas in the OP aren’t going to help.
Is that on point enough for you?
November 6th, 2021 at 7:28 PM ^
Wasn’t there a post recently where they said it’s actually Huckle Bearer? I prefer Huckleberry
November 6th, 2021 at 5:44 PM ^
This post sucks.
7 years of being outcoached and the officials are to blame. I wish Harbaugh worked out, I had high hopes when he was hired. He hasn't.
Has a chance to go 11-1, but hard to see that happening when every year has been the same.
November 6th, 2021 at 7:25 PM ^
It might be a tired topic by now but OP has a point about accountability. Ignoring refs in a close game is why we continue to have this problem. The only M has is to outscore by 20 plus. Ain't happening every big game. But the thread is unnecessary and I don't like the idea at all. Just get better trained refs and pay more.
November 6th, 2021 at 5:19 PM ^
(message deleted: redundant post)
November 6th, 2021 at 5:19 PM ^
1. Officiating
2. Accountability
Choose one.
November 6th, 2021 at 5:57 PM ^
Man, just increase their amateur salaries to the professional level and you’ll straightforwardly up the market competition and end up with fewer amateur refs.
We really don’t need creative/obscure solutions. It’s not complicated.
November 6th, 2021 at 5:59 PM ^
It could behoove Michigan to just offer to pay the FULL BIG TEN ref salary difference for the first 2-10 years, until the effects become obvious/popular and a salary reversal/repeal is impossible.
November 6th, 2021 at 6:45 PM ^
I think what is more likely is that the salaries would increase and we'd still have the same goobers reffing the same games for more money. I don't know that there's a pool of more qualified refs sitting around waiting for the B1G to offer more money. The best you can hope for is the B1G stepping up with more money and luring the "best" officials from CFB, but I've watched other conferences and their refs aren't noticeably better. Maybe officials from other conferences won't hate Harbaugh yet, so it might help, but only for a while.
November 6th, 2021 at 7:29 PM ^
I have no idea where this meme that refs hate Harbaugh came from. Because of one asshole in OSU who is a homeboy did stupid things? Harbaugh has been a different guy for 5 years. Things haven't changed. People are not just mad at Harbaugh. They are just incompetent as heck and some might be biased against Michigan. But this is not because of Harbaugh. That ship has sailed.
November 7th, 2021 at 2:10 AM ^
Yes, and the current refs and the commissioners have been colluding at best, corrupt at worst, and would never let these volunteer refs go for risk of exposure. So they will get the jobs and nothing will change.
November 6th, 2021 at 6:29 PM ^
Exactly. Both will not happen anytime soon.
November 6th, 2021 at 5:22 PM ^
The first coach that makes them look bad, gets no calls the rest of the year.
Instead of coaches, make the refs face the media. The coaches could, behind the scenes, feed those media questions.
Also, the refs are graded each week. Make those public with media access to the graders so thry could ask questions.
November 6th, 2021 at 5:24 PM ^
All I ever ask for is a level playing field, and let the chips fall.
Unfortunately, In all sports, it has been proven time and time again that this just doesn't happen. Especially where UM football and Red Wing hockey are involved.
Officials have mastered the art of coordinating games' outcome and drama.
As I said again last week. Might as well just watch WWF.
Alas.
Go Blue.
November 6th, 2021 at 5:35 PM ^
Officials don't care about the red wings or Michigan football. As much as you want to believe they want to effect the games, they don't. Their bowl assignments are on the line and advancements to better conferences. They rated on performance in every game.
November 6th, 2021 at 5:44 PM ^
B1G selected refs that worked the 2016 OSU-Michigan game to work the cfp. The league rewarded those refs for their work in that game.
November 6th, 2021 at 5:50 PM ^
It's your ratings from the whole year. Not one game.
November 6th, 2021 at 7:00 PM ^
That game was officiated so egregiously poorly, that it should have dragged down their rating for the WHOLE YEAR. They should have been punished.
November 6th, 2021 at 7:49 PM ^
Almost as if they're working as intended.
November 6th, 2021 at 5:24 PM ^
And to address the actual post, yes it’s a great idea. I never see it happening though, at least not until officiating is a paid profession. “These guys volunteer their time and now you want to bust their chops?”
In my experience accountability is a long past concept in any profession or sector of society. Humanity has somewhat devolved in that aspect, for whatever reason suits your worldview.
November 6th, 2021 at 5:37 PM ^
Volunteer? They make like 5g a game man we don't need to professionalize it. They need to stop fixing games and do their fkn job they are being paid for.
November 6th, 2021 at 5:50 PM ^
No shit? This place made it sound like they were doing it out of the goodness of their hearts.
Use that as the lever to improve performance then. Dock their stipend for erroneous calls.
(Never gonna happen.)
November 6th, 2021 at 5:25 PM ^
A pro reffing team for each game and a review team to grade refs for every game. Reviews are graded and reviewed with each team. If you score bad grades consistently your days on a ref team could be numbered. A team reviewing that over turned fumble could at least be an eye opener.
November 6th, 2021 at 5:28 PM ^
I think the replay officials should be more visible, seems like some huge (fucking awful) decisions are made by them and there is zero accountability or visibility.
November 6th, 2021 at 5:33 PM ^
Humans make mistakes and I'm willing to live with that. I am fine without replay. What I don't get, and I'm not sure I ever will, is how they get it wrong AFTER WATCHING THE REPLAY.
I think the word "indisputable" is maybe something that these guys don't understand.
November 6th, 2021 at 5:46 PM ^
One problem with replays besides bias are the distortion of reality when they slow down live footage. Its easy to misconceive possession when a player only has it for single frame of footage. Mistakes happen but its easy to see when a replay official is making shit up like last week.
November 6th, 2021 at 5:30 PM ^
I think the only way to truly fix the problem is to do like Seth suggests and get full-time professional refs for the B1G. Accountability is much easier when they do this for a living instead of as a weekend side gig. I never understand why we expect a quality product without paying for it.
Then you can treat them like regular employees. Give incentives for making few errors, like bonuses at the end of the year based on how few errors you made in game, etc. Remove and replace the ones that are just downright incompetent.
November 6th, 2021 at 5:31 PM ^
As someone who has family and friends in the big ten and NFL officiating and I have myself at the high school level, challenge all of you to go officiate any middle school game. Let me know how goes. Your post game meetings wouldn't solve the one huge problem. Humans making split second decisions in high pressure moments. Not to mention all the wording of how rules and situations are handled that the avg viewer has no clue about.
November 6th, 2021 at 5:35 PM ^
Get what you're saying, but the big call in question was not a split second decision nor was it ambiguous wording.
November 6th, 2021 at 5:38 PM ^
I agree with you. I'm speaking in generalities.
November 6th, 2021 at 5:40 PM ^
If you officiate without video replay, that's one thing. But when you have review ability per video that these officials do, you should be held accountable for erroneous calls and have to explain why calls were or were not overturned. ESPECIALLY when you overturn a call that video evidence does not support being overturned.
I am held responsible for when I do the wrong thing on my job. So are you, I assume. So is anybody who works in a position that has half a brain about personal responsibility.
I'm not calling for on-the-spot firings for one little goof; that's human nature, and it's expected. I'm calling for explanations and admissions of error, especially for egregious ones caught on video, just like it would be expected of me when I mess up on my job. I don't think that's asking too much. Officials are not above scrutiny. They should not be allowed to think that they can never be wrong. If people cannot handle that aspect of the job, they ought not take it.
November 6th, 2021 at 7:06 PM ^
I think there SHOULD be on-the-spot firings for last Saturday's call and calls like it. Where they OVERTURN a call when there is not indisputable evidence. Let them know their job is on the line if they overturn a call incorrectly. The whole point of this thread is accountability.
November 6th, 2021 at 5:50 PM ^
I’m sorry, but he’s not talking about high school refs making split second decisions. He was referring to a reviewed play where the call was changed where there was clearly no evidence to overturn the play yet it was overturned.
November 6th, 2021 at 5:32 PM ^
Here’s an idea. Why not have a dedicated crew of replay officials at a central location responsible for all reviews? It’s 2021. They aren’t seeing anything that isn’t available for remote viewing. And why not have B10 commissioner be IN THE ROOM on Saturdays? He should hear the reason for any reversal and be able to concur. 3 officials. All must agree to overturn. That’s what makes it “irrefutable”!
November 6th, 2021 at 5:40 PM ^
The refs 3 refs should review independently then secretively vote on whether a call should be overturned. Takes out 2/3 vote for overturning. (You don't want to require all because one incompetent ref could veto the overturn of an obvious call).
November 6th, 2021 at 5:43 PM ^
For one that would take forever. And two the commissioner has zero experience officiating. You complain about incompetence, yet you want a guy to have a say that has zero officiating back ground to have a say?
November 6th, 2021 at 5:52 PM ^
How would it take any more time? In the booth at the stadium or in a room at B10 HQ = same thing!?!?
And I wasn’t complaining about incompetence. Just suggesting that
the central team would be “experts” in rules and review procedures.
As for the commish, he doesn’t have a vote on rules based decisions. Was just suggesting there should be a central figure who was ultimately responsible. Isn’t that part of his job? If the RULE is irrefutable evidence required to overturn a call on the field a FOOTBALL commish should be qualified to understand the decision to overturn.
Agree with everything you wrote above on how difficult it is to referee. They do a good job overall. It’s the occasional OVERTURNING of a call with no reason that I find irritating.
November 6th, 2021 at 5:43 PM ^
Blame everyone, but ignore your teams own incompetency.
Great mindset, loser.
November 6th, 2021 at 5:49 PM ^
2 things can be true, and sometimes even converge.
You can like peanut butter sandwiches
You can like jelly sandwiches
You can like peanut butter and jelly sandwiches
I'm sorry this is hard for you to understand.
November 6th, 2021 at 5:46 PM ^
It's fucking rigged, it's gross. Not sure how corrupt...like if officiated to hit Vegas lines or refs are straight up gambling, but this is not incompetence.
2016 OSU was sooooo bad, but you could write it off as 1 game.
2021 is the 2nd game where UM got royally screwed.
These are no random poorly officiated games, they were aggregious, 1 sided bs games.
November 6th, 2021 at 6:01 PM ^
It just blows my mind how people cant wrap their heads around this. These refs are straight up shaving points from UM and gifting OSU, MSU, WIS in BIG games regularly. DPJ td overturned against Wisconsin after obvious review, Hold from mars, Indiana kicking a ball from the refs hands while the half clock expires, OSU PI every play, Sparty receptions bouncing off the turf every year, etc, etc, etc. Since Harbaugh has arrived its been absolutely disgusting and easily cost UM several huge games. Its not just football either, John Beilein put up with the same amount of shit during OSU and MSU games every season!
November 6th, 2021 at 5:49 PM ^
I'm not a conspiracy theorist, but the officiating in the B1G would make it easy to be one. OSU got just enough of a gentle nudge from the officials to turn a game in serious jeopardy for Ohio State to a comforting victory. It seemed like MSU got the same treatment last week.
Us fans bitching about it on a message board isn't going to change anything, but hopefully the influencers that make up the league will eventually demand answers from Kevin Warren and force him to address the issue of officiating in this league.
In a division as competitive as the B1G East, officials have no part in the discussion in the outcome of games. For context, I don't hear this come up nearly as often in the SEC West for example.
November 6th, 2021 at 5:57 PM ^
It's not a conspiracy.
It's gross negligence by the B1G conference to not hire actual officials.
November 6th, 2021 at 6:02 PM ^
Agree
Serious question
do other college conferences hire full time officials? Who do not have a regular full time job?
are they actually incompetent?
OR
CROOKED like a politician?
November 6th, 2021 at 5:58 PM ^
Logged in just to say I love this idea.
November 6th, 2021 at 6:00 PM ^
Why would they submit to that?
they don’t have to.
these ideas only make sense IF the league was concerned about it.
they are not
November 6th, 2021 at 6:10 PM ^
I caught the last 8-9 minutes of the Ohio State game and I thought the refs made a few decisions on calls/non-calls that definitely favored OSU. It was disappointing, but not surprising.
November 6th, 2021 at 7:01 PM ^
OP. I think this is a fair post, despite some of the backlash from other posters. For years, I myself have been thinking of ways to do something similar.
What I don’t like about the officials is that there is (seemingly) no accountability. You can be a good (or bad) official and it doesn’t matter. You could even be a good official that makes a mistake. Still doesn’t matter.
A couple years ago, I made the recommendation that an independent organization would grade each ref/official (almost like a PFF grade), so everyone can see the grade of each official. This would provide a bit more transparency into the abilities of the refs for each game and maybe force some accountability into each respective ref. What’s more, coaches can plan around have shitty refs for the game if they knew their grade.
with that, I like your idea. It’s a little more personal and also forces them to be a little more accountable for their calls.