Tebow
I know everyone is sick of Tebow, but I have to say I have come around a little bit on him as a pro QB. He has really improved his accuarcy this year and I started to think maybe that is why Urban brought in Loefler to get his boy some pro style work this offseason. Tebow will definitely be back and I would be curious if the offense changes a little bit next year to some more pro style passing to show off his boy with Lefty's tutelege. With all the intangibles I'm thinking I would go as high as late 2nd rd. now with Tebow as QB..
January 9th, 2009 at 8:36 AM ^
But I still don't think he's shown the ability to throw the tough NFL throws. I haven't seen him throw many outs across the field, or really squeeze a laser into a tight space, Henne-style. He could be a good change of pace QB though, and his running threat on 3rd and medium or short could be really useful.
January 9th, 2009 at 8:37 AM ^
left handed, I wouldn't be opposed the idea of the Lions drafting him. I used to hate him, but he gets the job done. The whole flipping around your OL because your QB is a lefty problem is too risky in my opinion.
January 9th, 2009 at 9:36 AM ^
WHAT? Are you serious? That isn't why people discriminated against lefties for a while, it was because they thought the ball spun differently and made it harder to catch. This idea has passed in the NFL, as it was stupid, and now lefties are accepted as legit QBs. And for the record, turning an O-Line around has no ill-effect on the guys. After a training camp, the guys would be comfortable in their positions and would be fine.
The knock on Tebow is that he is not capable of making the tough throws, is used to running in a spread offense, and that he runs too aggressively (puts his body on the line) for the NFL. They feel that if he tries to run people over, he will get hurt too often, and that can't be had with a starting QB.
In all honesty, whatever team drafts Tebow will give him at least two years to try QB, and if that doesn't work out he will be moved, but all of this talk about him as a TE or FB is dumb and premature. He will get a shot first, because if it worked he would be a Vick-like talent back there
January 9th, 2009 at 8:57 AM ^
Can the Lions break Tim Tebow? Will he be smiling and thankful after going 8-40 in three seasons? As a man of science, I must see this experiment run.
January 9th, 2009 at 9:12 AM ^
Todd McShay basically ripped Tebow a new rectum in regards to him being an NFL QB this morning on Mike & Mike. Not that McShay is the end-all, but I gotta agree w/ him. His mechanics are sketchy at best, he's spent most of his career in the 'gun, and his accuracy isn't much better than, say, Steve Threet.
BTW, I'll be so f*cking pissed if the Lions draft Tebow.
January 9th, 2009 at 9:14 AM ^
"With all the intangibles I'm thinking I would go as high as late 2nd rd. now with Tebow as QB.."
What intangibles are you talking about?
January 9th, 2009 at 9:26 AM ^
... seems like a person of great character. But for some reason I dislike him. Perhaps it's how much everyone jocks him. After that flag against him at the end of the game, the announcers said something to the tune of "Probably the first bad thing he's done in his life." Out of control...
At any rate, as a QB. In college, probably the most unique styled QB. He's not ridiculously fast, he's just got the body of a tight end and can throw the ball relatively well. I think he can move around well enough to buy time, probably because college defenses aren't fast+strong enough to stop his ability to run. I have a hard time buying that he'll be able to buy as much time in the NFL. Additionally, he may be more accurate, but he needs to get better to cut it in the NFL.
I wish him well and God help us all if the SEC wins another national championship.
January 9th, 2009 at 9:48 AM ^
I was driving to my gf's house and tuned in to ESPN Radio's broadcast of the game, and was completely underwhelmed with Brent's play-by-play on the radio. Half the time he just shouted the name of the player who carried the ball/was thrown to, and had no flow to his speech. Maybe it got better as the game went on, but it was pretty brutal at the start of the game.
"Bradford takes the snap...throws...JOHNSON!!!!!!!"
Doesn't really have anything to do w/ Tebow, but I imagine ol' Brent was on Tim's jock all nite.
January 9th, 2009 at 10:04 AM ^
I'm put in a tough spot now because I hate Florida and Tebow now I gotta defend him. What Intangibles??? Oh I don't know the hardest working guy anywhere with leadership skills out the ass, who has come thru in clutch situations time and time again with toughness mentally and physically anyone would want...just those intangibles. As I mentioned in the initial post he is not coming out this year. I think Loefler will be working on his mechanics this offseason and I think they will feature a more sophisticated passing game I think Meyer wants to do that for him....again I'm in a tough spot cause I like Threet, but less accurate than Threet?? I'll take that as over the top sarcasm and leave it at that. Tebow is not an NFL QB as I see him, but like I said I think come next year things may change with Loeffler in place.......or it will end up like Pat White where he tanks passing early and they just run his ass into the ground...
January 9th, 2009 at 3:21 PM ^
I'm not sure I agree with "clutch situations." In fact, if I remember correctly, the Gators are like 1-5 with Tebow when trailing in the second half.
January 9th, 2009 at 10:11 AM ^
You take Tim Tebow away from Urban Meyer and he is average at best. He plays in a gimmick offense that fools people so much he only has to make one read, usually to a wide open Percy Harvin who does the rest on his own. The man scored on a freaking jump pass! He is a great college football player, probably the best I have seen in my lifetime. That being said he is not that good of a QB. I also heard Todd McShay and agree with everything he had to say. If you want to project Tebow to the NFL think Alex Smith. Same coach, same offense, how has that turned out for him?
January 9th, 2009 at 10:14 AM ^
Alex Smith was a two-star nobody recruit.
Tim Tebow was the #1 recruit in the entire country. He has plenty of physical talent - you can argue that it hasn't been developed or that he hasn't had to learn many of the skills necessary for an NFL QB, but he has the physical talent.
January 9th, 2009 at 11:26 AM ^
"Alex Smith was a two-star nobody recruit."
And Aaron Rodgers was too and had to go the JC route, how have things worked out for him? Vince Young was the #1 recruit and got benched in favor of an old, grey QB. What's your point? (And for the record Tebow was not the #1 recruit on either Scout or Rivals)
I agree that he has the physical talent to play in the NFL, just not at Quarterback. His delivery is slow, is accuracy is questionable and his arm strength is average. He is a great athlete and one hell of a college football player unforunately his game doesn't translate to the pros. He is the JJ Redick/Tyler Hansbrough of college football.
Going back to Alex Smith...he may have been a 2 star recruit but Urben Meyers offense made him good. You take him away from that offense and he is a huge bust in the NFL.
January 9th, 2009 at 11:31 AM ^
The point isn't that Tebow will be awesome. It's that Alex Smith is basically irrelevant when predicting the future of Tebow. Tebow, physically, is a much better prospect than Smith and his carny like small hands. He was universally better regarded coming out of HS.
Tebow may well be a bust, but using Alex Smith as the predictor isn't a good way to determine that.
As far as the Urban factor - you are probably right (although poorly phrased), in that Smith probably doesn't go in the first round without Urban. But do you really think Tebow would have been awful if he played for Carroll, or Stoops, or even Carr?
January 9th, 2009 at 11:31 AM ^
VY wasn't a question of talent or skill. His problem was mental. We won't know that about Tebow for a while either.
January 9th, 2009 at 11:53 AM ^
Young also injured his knee and wouldn't be playing right now if he was the sanest person on the earth.
January 9th, 2009 at 11:57 AM ^
I mis-spoke. Tebow was the #1 quarterback recruit in the country. He had offers from Florida, FSU, Texas, LSU, USC, and Michigan. You can't get a more universal confirmation of his talent level than that.
And you seem to want to insist that he can't play in a different offense. USC doesn't make their QB's run - they wanted him. Lloyd Carr, who NEVER has his QB's run wanted him. Clearly, many people who know much more about football than either of us felt he could succeed in a more conventional offense.
And, as Dex points out - Alex Smith's success/lack thereof is no way a predictor of Tebow's. They're two completely different people with, frankly, two completely different levels of talent.
January 9th, 2009 at 10:38 AM ^
I think Tebow would fit in a bit with an offense like Miami.
Still think he needs more college and a "redshirt" year in the pros.
January 9th, 2009 at 10:43 AM ^
Bring him to Detroit. Let him run the 1 man play action fake over and over.
[/joking]
January 9th, 2009 at 10:42 AM ^
Tebow, honestly, reminds me lots of McNair. Steve McNair, coming out of college, has a huge arm, and not much accuracy. His running skills were based more on size and strength than sheer speed. He spend 2 years on an NFL bench, and came in fully-formed in his 3rd year.
January 9th, 2009 at 11:48 AM ^
thats a great comparison.
January 9th, 2009 at 12:13 PM ^
I can't agree with the McNair comparison. McNair had an elite arm. Tebow does not. Unlike Tebow, McNair was never mentioned as being moved to tight end or H-back as a pro. No question, Tebow is a great collegiate quarterback, however, I just don't see him as a legitimate NFL QB prospect.
January 9th, 2009 at 11:54 AM ^
a season with him. I think Tebow can turn into a decent pro QB. Hell he'll be an upgrade on what the Lions have right now.
Oh and as for Urban being average without Tebow, you might want to check his Utah teams along with where Utah is now thanks to Meyer. Also don't forget he and Rodriguez talk shop quite a bit. Meyer has coaching skills and it's too bad Carr hadn't retired sooner, we could have had Tebow and Meyer.
January 9th, 2009 at 11:58 AM ^
It's worth pointing out, also, that USC and Michigan - two schools that run "conventional" offenses - both were HARD after Tebow. Many smart people felt he could succeed in a normal offense.
January 9th, 2009 at 11:57 AM ^
I think if Tebow were to be drafted by an organization like the Lions, you are looking at an almost guaranteed bust.
But what if he gets into a situation like Pitt or Baltimore? Give him a strong running game, competent coaching, and a defense and I see no reason why he, like other perhaps average NFL QBs, can't be tremendously successful.
In short, there are too many x-factors involved with NFL QBs to sit here and proclaim for sure one way or another if he is good enough. Is Ben Roethlisberger a good NFL QB if he plays for the 49ers? Does Flacco have the same rookie success if he is in Detroit? Is Tom Brady the greatest of all time if he ends up in Houston instead of New England? Does Joey Harrington crap out if he had sat behind an experienced QB for three years before starting?
January 9th, 2009 at 12:02 PM ^
Exactly - Flacco is "successful" because he plays for a team with a shutdown defense, and thus isn't depended on to do anything. If you watch him play, every pass play consists of him rolling to the sideline (thus cutting his reads down), and then either throwing a bomb or throwing the ball out of bounds.
Matt Ryan, also, hasn't been asked to throw the ball much - they had one of the top 3 rushing attacks in football.
Rothlisberger, as a rookie, threw over 20 passes in a game ONCE.
If a team can afford to wrap their rookie QB in bubble-wrap, and win the game with only a modest contribution from them, rookies can succeed. When they can't do that, you have David Carr or Joey Harrington - two guys that played behind miserable lines and just got massacred for 3-4 years. Could Carr have been successful elsewhere? Possibly.
January 9th, 2009 at 12:31 PM ^
My buddy works for the NFL and talks with the teams often. His impression is Tebow would be a late second day pick (5th/6th round) if he came out this year. As McShay discussed, people have questions about arm strength/accuracy.
January 9th, 2009 at 9:25 PM ^
Tebow's first interception last night (that deep throw across the field) was an indication that he won't be a highly sought after QB. Arm strength isn't everything (see: Pennington, Chad), but it helps...and that was just a flat-out bad decision.
Also, Tebow has happy feet. And not the kind of Peyton Manning happy feet where he's always ready to throw. Tebow shuffles his feet on almost every dropback. That's a habit he'll need to break, because he's not always in a position to throw. He needs to have a quicker release if he doesn't have an elite arm.