It's OSU week! Time to get pumped! Time to get angry (at other teams)! Time to ritualistically sacrifice everything small and red, like newborn kittens! Get angry!
STOP JUMPING OFF THE LEDGE!!!!!!
Let's hope OSU week > Hard Edge Week?
OSU week's always better. All bets are off. I don't care that they're statistically better, if we come out and execute, this game (and all others this year) could be ours. I'm quite glad this falls on Thanksgiving week, I can now spend all of Thursday and Friday scouting and preparing myself.
Exactly. If we pull out all the stops, and get a couplke of breaks we could easily be in this game
Man hard edge week was the worst.
Thankfully, I think hard edge has been hit on the brainpan with a shovel, pushed into the deep grave it was just forced to dig, with a half-ton of dirt piled on top of it. May we never hear about hard edge again.
I will include the prayer for hard edge to never come back with my weekly chicken sacrifice from now until eternity.
I think he ledge is just fine, here's why:
1. we dont do simple things even mediocre. Tackle, kickoffs, field goals.
2. as Spielman correctly notes, we have no identity on defense and are NOT recruiting to UM standards on defense
3. other programs (see MSU, Wisco) are out muscling us on both sides of ball
4. small ball does not possess ball sufficiently
5. RR doesnt seem to have answers for ST or defense
From RR's press conference regarding tackling:
the hard part is, to work on it during the season, how do you do live tackling?" Don't want guys to get hurt - can't afford more injuries
How many frats do we have on campus? RR needs to get in contact with them and make the pledges volunteer as tackling dummies for a day... hell I woulda done it in college.
Regarding the recruiting, I think he was somewhat off there. We ARE recruiting elite talent, the interest just isn't being reciprocated due to the past few years. A lot of the players to whom I assume you are referring to when talking about 'non-UM talent' were, to be frank, backup plans. It's an unfortunate part of recruiting, but that's just how it is. A turnaround and we'll be back to recruiting 'UM level talent'
in 2007? Go back and watch App. State and Oregon again...we weren't tackling or playing good defense back then either. So was that a reason to unleash on Lloyd?
Your answer is...no. We need to get better. If we don't show significant defensive improvement next season, half of the "fan" base will get their wish.
One major difference between 2007 and now. The 2007 defense that struggled early was still a major part of a team that ran the B10 table until OSU. Overall, that defense was far superior to the defense of 2010, despite the early troubles, fundamentally or otherwise. Also, after those two games Lloyd was unleashed upon at a furious rate.
Yep. That's what I meant, Wisconsin.
Yes that was a reason to unleash on Lloyd and if you remember there was a ton of criticism heaved his was the last several years of his tenure.
The amount of complaining over uncalled holding in the liveblog yesterday was most disheartening...
i was complaining about it in the stands. Is that considered acceptable behavior?
From what I've read of your posts, you seem like a rational guy. It's some of these guys that were harping on holding on every single passing down (it's believable, because there were so few of them) that drove me nuts. Martin/RVB/Roh is a good trifecta, but they shouldn't be sacking the QB EVERY DOWN. It was getting a little ridiculous
and that's why people say we are getting what we deserve.
Let's be positive! Hey Roundtree only needs 161 yards over the OSU game and bowl game to break 1000 yards receiving! Alright!
While there are some with unrealistic expectations, I think the most anger is generated from the fact that this team just can't seem to execute on the fundamentals or make ANY effective defensive adjustments. Being pissed that the defense can't seem to show any signs of improvement from week to week and has been ridiculously bad in the fundamentals all year doesn't equate to domer level whining. It's just too hard to support the coaching staff with this situation on the D.
Wisconsin ran the entire second half and never had to punt. That means the run defense is not average, it's not even bad, it's completely terrible. I like the players on the defense and it looks to me like they're playing hard and not quitting in spite of everything, so I'm not complaining about them, but it would be nice if they got coaching equal to the effort they put out there.
You mean the one that put us in the hole Saturday by scoring exactly ZERO points in the first half? The one that scored 17 against MSU? The "amazing" offense that has not given the defense any help when the game is actually within reach? Just saying, the offense is extremely inconsistent and isn't as great as everyone is claiming.
Call it whatever you want, but I was relaxed yesterday. I didn't get pissed off like normal or swear at my TV. We got beat by a better team, plain and simple. Time to move on to the next one, the biggest game of the season.
That was my exact reaction as well. Wisconsin is pretty clearly the best team we have seen all year, so I had no real anger at being pushed around by them. We will get them back soon enough.
I accepted yesterday's game and this year for what it is. I'm hopeful for some good fortune next week and excited about what next year may bring. I think any coach deserves a fourth year in most every circumstance, including this one. Dont want to become Notre Dame with our impatience. One more year and almost everyone will be on the same page--whether that is a promising future or a new hire. I love watching the offense and hope RR can get it done with some D next year. If he can't we'll have to move on after next season.
Agree, but people like to complain. Everyone expects his/her team to go undefeated, unscored upon, and unchallenged. When reality doesn't follow this plan, a portion of the fanbase will always react negatively. Clearly the past few years have been down, and there is legitimate critcisms to be made, but I see real growth occurring and a bright future.
It seems that after the humbling last three seasons half this board still expects a miraculous turn around in every game. Yet this season has gone pretty much as most of us expected. The self-righteous outrage following each loss (and most wins) is getting almost comical now.
The "anti" faction has an agenda they are promoting and it is tearing down the program they claim as their own in order to "save" it from Rich Rodriquez.
I heard they all weren't really born in America too.
Stanzi is going to take those hippie traitors out.
is available to every other industrialized B10 team, and so must be used at M. They believe 10 wins and a Rose Bowl are basic human rights of every fan
BTW, the "not born in America" meme was started by RR-haters themselves, when one of their Unacceptables was going all UNACCEPTABLE on another
that team that whisky put on the field yesterday was clearly a better product than we have to offer. As I said that is the best 1 loss team in the country they are bigger, stronger and they execute.(Oh yea they tackle on D) it is dissapointing to see the product we have to offer in return (on defense) clearly Greg has got to go! We need a DC with some balls someone that could be the assiantant head coach and makes sound decisions to where this is going. We have not had that in three years now and quite frankly its not the type of D I've come accustomed to in my 50 years!
Agreed mostly except that Stanford would kick the shit out of Wisconsin. LSU might as well but I'm not as positive on that one since I haven't watched many LSU games.
It's a touch ironic to think about those two teams being better than any Big Ten team given the coaches. Still like how this season has gone and want RR back for a 4th year though.
What proof do you have that Stanford would kick the shit out of Wisconsin? The one common opponent the two schools have is Arizona State. Wisconsin beat them by 1 and Stanford beat them by 4. That hardly seems like enough evidence to proclaim a "shit kicking." To me, Stanford and Wisconsin are the best one-loss teams in the country and I'd love to see them play in the Rose Bowl. I think it would be a close game.
Lots of reasons. One common opponent is not the entire body of work. I was impressed with Stanford's win over Arizona 42-17, Cal 48-14. and (mostly until the end) good performance against Oregon. I have not been impressed with Wisconsin in any game this year except the first half of Ohio State. Nothing else they've done has screamed "elite" unless you consider putting up meaningless points on a crappy Indiana team as such. Andrew Luck is miles ahead of any Big Ten QB as a passer, even Persa who has probably the best case to challenge him at this point.
I honestly don't know which is worse: whining about losses, or whining about whining about losses.
Look, I'm inclined to think Rich Rod should get a fourth year. Overall the team is improving. The offense is a trifle inconsistent but when they're on they are definitely on. The defense, on the other hand...yeah, I know they're young, and there's a good chance they'll improve, but improvement isn't automatic. I don't see any reason why people can't say so.
If you want to defend Rich Rod, defend him. But don't act all shocked when folks around here vent their frustration at what is still a subpar Michigan football team with a defense that gives up forty-plus points a game. Being "All In for Michigan" does not mean we ignore what's happening on the field.
If you want us to "STOP JUMPING OFF THE LEDGE!!!!!!" or "Not Be Douchebags", it would help if you would climb off the ledge and stop acting douchey yourselves. It doesn't persuade anyone of anything anyway. Metawhining -- whining about whining - accomplishes nothing, for Michigan or for Rich Rodriguez.
Why is this type of thread created every week? It's as tiring as the complainers in my book.
We get it -- UM has complainers just like every school. Those people suck! Lets be outraged when it happens after every loss like its some sort of new development.
Complainers -- Shut Up
Complainers about complainers -- Shut up
Complainers about complainers about complainers, like me, will get to shut up ourselves once the above two conditions are met.
You just stopped me from complaining about the complainers. THANKS!
The people who say that this season is UNACCEPTABLE are in the wrong but when people say whinny fans are UNACCEPTABLE it's fine? Who gives a fuck? If you can't understand were the other side is coming from then you're just as hopeless as them. We have two sides of the spectrum and both are right in some regard. If people want to jump that is fine by me. I'll just watch with a beer.
I have seen LSU plenty living here in Dallas and I watched them yesterday. No doubt in my mind Whisky will have their way with them as for Stanford I have not seen them play this year but I think the two are on a direct path to each other. That would be a heck of a game!
Interesting. I'm just the opposite having seen Stanford a bunch. Unfortunately for us as fans it looks like Stanford is going to get screwed out of the Rose Bowl due to the new non-AQ autobid.
Oregon goes to the title game, no Big Ten team goes to the title game, then a Big Ten team goes to the Rose Bowl to face TCU or Boise State.
I believe this leaves Stanford to go to the Holiday Bowl where they will undoubtedly humiliate the Big 12 #3.
EDIT: Actually rethinking this a bit, I think if Auburn loses and does not go to the title game and TCU/Boise go to face Oregon that the Rose Bowl could end up Stanford-Wisconsin. Assuming Auburn wins out though it looks like Stanford -- which really seems like the 2nd best team in the nation to me -- could get the biggest screwjob out of any bowl selection that I can remember.
100%. Do the players have an obligation to follow their coach unconditionally? Absolutely. Do I? Nope, as a fan I am part of the system of checks and balances that may ultimately lead to the removal of a bad hire. Michigan as an institution and it's football program are bigger than Rich Rodriguez or any of us. We owe it to that timeless program to be honest about Rich Rodriguez instead blindly supporting every failure.
Did Nebraska fans owe such blind loyalty to Bill Callahan? Do you think Alabama fans are sorry they missed out on Rich Rodriguez?
But the OP used all caps, dude
Should go without saying, I guess, but I noticed that yesterday Iowa had something like 26 seniors playing their last game...when UM gets back to that sort of senior class we'll be back smacking the bejeezus out of MSU and Wisconsin and, dare I say it, tOSU...
I agree.. Heard Iowa had 26 seniors, MSU has 18 leaving. Over half their defense.. 2 starting LB, both corners, 2 or 3 lineman.
Watch MSU's fanbase meltdown next year when they regress significantly
We may well be the most spoiled football fans in the world, with our "most wins" best percentage", "best helmets", :"best song" "our shit doesnt stink" attitude, and I cant stand watching games with Michigan "fans" any more.
I too am very tired of the spoiled whiney "RR didnt part the waters" crap. These are no doubt the same people who whined that college football was passing us by during the final Lloyd years.
Face facts: RR inherited bupkus. Its his third year, and where are his 17 senior starters.....like what Wisconsin trotted out yesterday.
And we KNOW that Michigan denies admissions to top players who RR could have brought into Clemson, WVU orTulane.
Year 3: We have one of the top offensese in the country, and all the skill positions and most linemen are returning. See any prograss?
And as for the character issue, how about Mealer? How about NOT putting Denard back in after his bell was rung? And how many of you smirked when RR kept insisting "Denard is a QB"?
Did it surprise you that the full blown NCAA investigation turned up "failure to count stretching toward exercise time" as its most serious charge? Jeez, we didnt even bid on Cam Newton!
7-5 is real progress. OBVIOUSLY, Defensive improvement is the emphasis. I have no doubt RR will addrfess it.
Instead of whining so much, how about we focus our attention on attracting defensive recruits, instead of creating so much pissy attitude that recruits are scared away.
Many of you do more harm than good with your smarmy, negative attitudes.....do you think of this site as a way for recruits to take the pulse of the program?
Either "all in" or all out!
I see some great potential in these kids. They will be forged by fire as sophmores instead of going through the redshirt leap. The bowl game will be a time to develope some of that potential. Look at the leap that Denard made with off field work and spring ball (small sample size) Patrick O made a great leap, Lewan made a redshirt freshman leap. Demens could not crack the two deep last year a year later he's better for it, I have no doubt through experience and recruiting legal extra practices Michigan will be a better team physically and mentally. Yeah I'm a Kool Aid drinker based on what I see as progress (slower that I want as a fan) but I accept the reality of the situation.
I've been a Michigan fan since before the Ricky Leach days and through the years Ive' been spoiled to no small degree. But I see some of the similarities in this coach (Stuborness)(Willfull)(Resolute)(I'ts going to be done my way) love all of it.
I'm not blind to the short comings of this coaching staff but Bo had his too. Bo never won a national championship I know blasphemy, Bo waited too many years to start throwing the ball (my opinion) Carr played to not lose the game for too many years, Moeller didn't stick around long enough.
Michigan will be better next year. The last two years speak to that evidence w-l column does not lie. Say what you will as a fan the kool aid drinkers, the people that want RR gone yesterday, The wait and see crowd none of us can influence DBs decision one bit and he said as much.. The problem is we as fans communicate this negative attitude to prospective recruits, our negative rants add fuel to the MSM we endorse the MSM by repeating what some guy who has nothing in the way of fanhood invested in this team. They don't care other than if RR is fired they get a juicy story. Recruits read this crap, what they read may or may not directly influence them. But mom and dad may be influenced.
Wow rant over I'm out
The college program with the most wins in A-1 is now barely beating fourth tier A-1 schools and being mauled by tier one schools and that is progress?
It has been three years and the only positive is we were fortunate enough to schedule weak non conference opponents to pad our record to get into some obscure bowl game. If anything, we should hope the opponent in the bowl game is from either the MAC or Big East. Even then we still make take a drubbing.
I was all for RR when first hired but when I review the facts after his three years, it is clear this program has regressed and barely at the mediocre level.
What a mess.
You're lucky we've also lower our standards for proper English and knowledge of NCAA football nomenclature.
In any event, here are some reasons why there has been progress... from 2008.
- We are a legitimately very good to great offense. We sucked on offense in 2008.
- We beat bad teams. In 2008 we lost to Toledo and Purdue.
- We were 3-9 in 2008 and 5-7 in 2009. We will most likely finish 7-5 (not counting the bowl game). Mathematically, that is progress.
Here's the unfortunate truth: the difference between 5-7 and 7-5 may simply be due to random variance more than anything. Consider: we played one overtime game last year and one this year. Last year we lost; this year we won. What if those overtime results had been flipped, and everything else remained the same? Then we'd have won six games last year . . . and six games this year.
This year we are 4-0 in games decided by seven points or fewer. That is unusual; most teams would lose at least one of those. That suggests that we've been luckier than the average team, as opposed to last year, when we were 2-3 in such games. Is that enough to conclude that definitive progress has been made?
If wins only count as wins when you blow the other team out and if that was the only point I made, then you'd have a point.
I know you're smart enough to know that this team is slightly better than last year, which is to say the offense is a whole lot better and the defense is a whole lot worse. Special teams are worse too, overall.
In any event, my view all along has been that short of serious malfeasance (which I don't see in our case) or the team quitting on the coach, or something like that, a college coach should get 4 or 5 years. Even if we hadn't improved I would say that. So in some ways, I don't really care to have the argument about whether we've improved. I just wanted to offer some reasons for steak sauce for why I think we have.
I wasn't sure whether or not to agree, but that sixth exclamation point in the headline got to me. Five wouldn't have done it.
Rich Rodriguez is not immune to criticism, and nor should he be.
The issue I take is that there is a rational way to look at what's going on with the program, and few of the OMG UNACCEPTABLE crowd do so. I think the honest truth is that Rodriguez walked into a perfect storm in terms of defense and has made a few mistakes in the effort to dig us out. These are mistakes that any coach in the Big Ten could have made.Is the guy perfect? No. But I still think he can get the job done. The guy is a good coach. This is a young team and we're returning 21 or 22 starters next year - I think that's when you can truly evaluate the program.
We're a 10 win team next year if we play even average defense. If we get our young guys playing well, we're looking at a GREAT football team in the future.
If you want a rational discussion, look no further than this interview of Dave Brandon:
We will win again, next year we are Big Ten champions.