Sparty thuggery in Aspen is revealed
"The alleged victim, 26-year-old Benjamin Nichols of London, told police that the two males confronted him at the bar, and one of them grabbed him by the collar of his shirt. Nichols then knocked off the hat of Linthicum, who then punched him in the face, Nichols told police. Nichols then fell to the ground."
"Once on the ground, Nichols told me that the two males had then started kicking him repeatedly. Nichols showed me that his shirt had been ripped on the front and back as a result of the assault,” police said. Nichols also had an injury to his right eye"
"The two suspects blew off officers' repeated commands to stop, the report says. Fabrocini then came within about 8 feet from Linthicum and deployed a Taser, hitting the tight end in the upper part of his back, the report says."
http://www.aspentimes.com/article/20110420/NEWS/110429991/1077&ParentProfile=1058
They sound like very upstanding members of society.
I read TOC, it's a good site.
April 20th, 2011 at 12:04 PM ^
is surprised.
I would love it if the MSU alumni would get together and stand up for some friggin standards sooner or later, but these are people that support their school's decision to continue employing outright cheaters.
April 20th, 2011 at 12:07 PM ^
I fear, however, that continued success on the field (by our standards, anyway) will prompt ignorance and contentment.
April 20th, 2011 at 12:30 PM ^
MSU alumni haha like who? Charles Rogers, TJ Duckett, and Jeff Smoker? They were all very strict law abiding citizens...
April 20th, 2011 at 12:53 PM ^
and all the many other grads - athletes or not - who are productive and decent people.
Little brothers tend to be immature, and therefore susceptible to cheating
April 20th, 2011 at 12:18 PM ^
At this rate, we don't need to do any negative recruiting at all. MSU does it all for us!
April 20th, 2011 at 12:21 PM ^
Sparty nooo
April 20th, 2011 at 12:24 PM ^
And yet that delusional fanbase over there will somehow justify "college kids being college kids." Sorry, I was a college kid and I don't recall EVER:
- Kicking a kid repeatedly along with a teammate after punching the dude in the face
- Running away from the police
- getting tazed
Sparty NoooooooooGooooooo figure
April 20th, 2011 at 12:35 PM ^
nor my friends weren't ever chased by police. But it takes a true kind of asshole and coward to go 2-on-1 and then repeatedly kick the guy when he's down.
2 guys in a bar fight isn't a big deal in my mind, but that's not really what this was.
April 20th, 2011 at 12:55 PM ^
Please read the headline in the link. It wasn't a bar fight. It was a spat.
Thus, two spring practices!!!
I would totally prison-gang-beat a guy lying helplessly on the ground if he knocked my hat off at the bar.
April 20th, 2011 at 12:59 PM ^
Funny you say that because this is the typical reaction from most of my Sparty friends.
My other favorite is "Read the details of the case blah blah blah". Coming from a message board that can't even properly solve a simple math problem.
I'd like to kick repeatedly . . . Dantonio in the nuts.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=szPQoqjjRcA&feature=related
0:27 (seconds)
I'll take giving Dantonio a doggy bag in the alternative though too.
April 20th, 2011 at 12:31 PM ^
Christ, look at that drunk fucker smile like he's at a family reunion
2 guys fighting one, and kicking him when on the ground. I'll guess the english dude was half their size. These are true assholes
April 20th, 2011 at 12:31 PM ^
Consider me shocked that they didn't hand out ANY punishment.
When Arrington got arrested for domestic abuse under Carr didn't he miss multiple games??? I'd love to see a comparison of punishments showing what Spary hands out and what we've handed out in the past so I can rub it in my Sparty friend's faces.
One Sparty tried to compare Stonum and Grady's DUI's to Rucker last year and I had to remind him that Rucker also had a previous charge from their little gang party.
April 20th, 2011 at 12:43 PM ^
Disclaimer: I don't know the details of the story (or if it's true, but I absolutely trust the source), only what I was told.
My uncle was on campus during the Bo days (he was class of '76 IIRC) and told me that one day he was in an A2 bar and there were two football players present. There were also two long haired hippy types, and the football players started harassing them, eventually prompting them into a fight. Well, turns out the long haired hippies were pretty fresh off a tour in Vietnam as some kind of special forces troops and within a few seconds were in positions to kill the players (glass bottles, IIRC). Needless to say, the story ended with Bo kicking these guys out of A2...after getting their asses kicked. Apparently my uncle bought these guys a drink after and that's where he heard their background.
Never pick a fight with anyone because you never know what you're up against.
Score one for the long-hairs. I have an uncle who was in Special Ops in 'Nam, and he's as crazy as any Ohio State fan, in a hard-line pro-military kind of way. Not that I necessarily agree or disagree with that stance; it's just intimidating to be around him.
So funny you say "long-hairs". I had completely forgotten what he called them.
April 20th, 2011 at 12:34 PM ^
their fans are proud of it
That answers my question from above.
It's never acceptable for violence, save for when you're defending yourself.
One half of the argument on the RCMB
"Zero tolerance policy, lol. Going to get flamed for this, but since when is kicking a person repeatedly when down only worth 2 Spring Practices?"
Dantonio is a good coach, but he is a joke when it comes to morals.
The direct respose by the other half:
"go masturbate on a porch and sit out the opening kick off"
http://michiganstate.247sports.com/Board/93/Details-of-the-Aspen-Arrest…
What is it with their obsession with WalMart Wolverines anyway? What fricking difference does it make what team a person roots for anyway? I mean, I went to Eastern but I root for Michigan (although I'm torn when Eastern plays Michigan but generally I know the outcome so it's not terribly difficult). Is there some law somewhere that says you have to root for the team of the school you went to? (And yes, I do root for Eastern as well but see above)
And for there being no WalMart Spartans.....I'm sure the guy I saw with his hat cocked off at about a 45 degree angle with his pants down to his knees and the Spartan basketball Jersey went to East Lansing, right?
Personally I don't give a damn where someone went to school as long as they are rational in their fandom, don't use "scUM" or $$ in the names of other schools, and have at least semi-interesting things to say.
Well there still is the matter of my maize and blue cat but other than that, I'm pretty rational. My only nod to denigriating other schools is Spartoon and Suckeye. Although, I was thinking of watching the beatdown on the Eagles last year until I realized I would be giving a nice chunk of change to Ohio State. Plus, I was afraid that their brains would stop at "Michigan" and I'd get harassed.
The "Walmart Wolverine" thing is totally Sparty's -- hardly any Michigan fans care if you were a student or weren't -- because the only reason to ever root for State is if you went there. It's not like there's a period of sustained excellence, program values, or any kind of likeability to Spartan fandom to attract anyone (with a few exceptions of course).
Going back to the Little Brother analogy, when my brother and I would get in fights as kids, sometimes we'd use the 3rd brother as arbiter. Because I was always nicer to Brother 3, he'd pick me, even when I was totally in the wrong. This then got Brother 3 a punch in the face from Brother 2.
Part of it is that lots of Spartans were Michigan fans before getting rejected. As with all rejected apostates, their greatest scorn is reserved for what they see as inferiors who didn't betray along with them.
The MSU shoulder chip -- which ironically is exactly what makes MSU fandom so undesirable to non-alums in the first place -- is based on the premise of Michigan the snooty too-good-for-you's, an exclusive fraternity with the party you "never really wanted to be at anyway." Then in this moment of heightened class consciousness, past you walks a parade of people you consider your social inferiors, out to party at Upsilon Omicron Mu.
It's contempt bred from Michigan State's particular type of fandom bred in jealousy and acrimony.
How's the joke go?
What do UM and MSU fans have in common? They both applied to UM...
What do MSU and Mgoblog have in common?
*biting tongue*
nevermind...
The mere fact that you can deduce the punch line proves that, as Tosh would say, "Its funny because its true" =)
now i feel like an idiot, but what's the punchline?
For the sake of peace in the valley I'm not going to go there. Go ahead and delete. Sorry.
April 21st, 2011 at 10:50 AM ^
aw dammit I think I figured it out. Eh. It's kinda true. But we're like that about MGoEverything.
Funny thing is that when I went to school, State never really entered the equation for me. My dad suggested Tech since he went there but I didn't want to go there. My heart was set on Michigan and I applied there but I applied too late. I was conditionally accepted but I needed something for sure, so my counselor suggested Eastern and then transferring. so I applied to Eastern and got a scholarship there and ended up staying there.
I have a few theories of my own, but they fall along your outline.
This is inevitably partially true. However, it's overstated (like almost everything one encounters). Explanations with equal explanatory power in my experience are tuition cost, and interest in a particular specialty.
Also, your description of the attitude of MSU folk makes it sound like some sort of genetic predisposition. I think this is also an overstatement. There are many MSU students/grads who don't follow sports at all, and/or are there for some narrow purpose (like education students, veterinary students, or our huge international student population).
But these memes come in neat, tidy little packages, and comport with the immediate/unreflective feelings of a fanbase. So they work well in that respect. Unfortunately, it's not so simple (again, like almost everything you encounter). It's good for good-natured ribbing and whatnot, but also serves to shut down interesting conversations when it goes beyond that.
I thought I did a pretty good job of not overstating the meme. The segment we're speaking of -- athletic fans who were Michigan fans until 18 then went to MSU and switched allegiances -- is probably the minority of students at MSU. However among Spartans I know it's not just the majority but the entirety. Literally every one of them -- siblings, siblings in-law, parents in-law, one parent, grade school friends -- were Michigan fans until the letters came. One who ended up on MSU's 2000 basketball team wore maize and blue every day of school from 2nd grade through 7th, and being the best athlete in our class, his recess team was invariably Michigan.
These are the people who in my experience complain the most about "Walmart Wolverines," the greater the betrayal the greater the complaint. You mentioned in another reply above about "earning" the right to Michigan arrogance. I guess the key point of disagreement here is that Michigan fans generally don't think that being accepted to the University of Michigan is a prerequisite for rooting for Michigan, or perhaps more to the point, that there's more than enough to be arrogant about in the storied history of Michigan Athletics to feel good about being a Michigan fan without bringing up the University. If an Oakland CC fan is chanting "If you can't get into college go to State," well that's pretty silly.* However it seems equally silly to me to suggest that a brand as big (and a school as small) as Michigan should act like its athletic program is just for the students.
Nebraska is that state's biggest sports team -- how many of their fans didn't go to the school? USC is the de facto pro** team of Los Angeles. You don't see Iowa State fans blowing a fit over filling Kinnick with folks who never went to Iowa? At Michigan the fans are just one section, and then there's another whole Spartan Stadium's worth of space to fill with an alumni base that mostly lives out of state.*** The brand is national, and its participants should be expected to come from more than simply State Street.
Anyway, I appreciate your comments very much and thank you for responding with class to something that wasn't written with rivalric equanimity in mind.
* So is the chant, but whatever.
** I mean de jure - lolz
*** This you can give us shit for. Wolverines overwhelmingly abandon Michigan after getting degrees; State fans not as much?
I think we were talking past each other (or, more precisely, I was talking past you). If your parameters reach only that group you just described, then I understand and you're right - you didn't overstate anything. Perhaps I misread - I interpreted your parameters to be basically anyone who ever attended MSU. Admittedly that's incredibly broad, and I perhaps should have known better than to ascribe such generality to your statement. In my defense, your parameters were not so explicit and limited as you just now said (I don't think, anyway - I'll have to go back and look again when I'm done typing this).
As for your latter point about the scope of the brand vis a vis the WW meme, I think we just have a fundamental disagreement (which is, of course, encouraged). I don't separate the brand from the university (though I acknowledge the scope of its existence as you articulate it). The sports and the school are inseparably intertwined in my view - without the school, there would be no sports in its name. And for me, the university always takes precedence over sports and brand.
Cheers sir - I appreciate your response as well. BTW your decimated defense series remains one of, if not the, most impressive thing(s) I've seen on here.
EDIT: Was it Matt Ishbia who you knew?
yep - Ishbia.
Grew up down my street.
To answer your question: [I think I can articulate the argument (parts of which I agree with, others I don't)] -
It has something to do with taking ownership of something you didn't earn.
M is a great school; it's tough to get into, and its reputation leads to arrogance (so this argument goes). Someone who didn't go there claims ownership of all the benefits (including the arrogance) without having earned any of it. They are pretending, and then they go on to say negative things to/about people that actually go/went to the school they claim (i.e., who earned it).
For example, an Eastern grad giving an MSU grad shit as if the Eastern grad went to M?
It's an authenticity (or lack thereof) thing. Maybe part of it is a manifestation of ressentiment for some (that's where the obsession comes into play); but part of it is the opposite of ressentiment, i.e., contempt. It's like the "village idiot," who goes around blowing his whistle at people in the village, who oblige him when he's around, and then laugh their asses off at his futility when he leaves.
Contrarily, if you went to Eastern and root for M, but aren't a blowhard who says negative things about others as if you're claiming M for as your own, then I don't think anyone would care. Be reasonable - then you're alright
I think BlueDragon has a good view on the matter.
1. MSU fans are jealous
2. They are also hypocrites, given they didn't attend Detroit Lions University or Red Wings College and yet they still cheer for those teams (anyone from Detroit who isn't a Tigers fan is a terrorist)
3. The idiot machine at 97.1 promotes this, and it is becoming the face of the program. I think many Sparties welcome that voice, but it is reinforcing the meathead stereotype that most of Spartyland disdains.
As to your point (2): Ok, I've said this before, but I keep seeing it come up. Apologies for redundancy.
Professional sports teams and academic institutions are fundamentally different, so the analogy doesn't work. You don't have to apply and be accepted based on your merits to live in the state of Michigan and root for the Tigers, and no one will turn you down. In other words, there's no merits to be judged when adopting a pro sports team - it's all mere geography, where you happen to live (which very well may be by accident - e.g., where your parents live, or where you could get a job).
Contrarily, a university judges and discriminates - it's all merits, it CAN turn you down if you don't pass muster. It's a statement of your merits to say that you are a Spartan or a Wolverine, or Eagle, Chip, Bronco, or whatever else - your previous academic accomplishments got you there, your hard work got you through.
As to (1): Please see my post immediately above about the reasons people go to MSU. They are more varied than the oversimplifying meme that is propagated. Moreover, of whom are we jealous? Students/grads of schools other than M or MSU who nevertheless claim the first as their own? Why would anyone be jealous? Those other schools are fine schools, but so is MSU.
As to (3): I don't live in the Detroit area, so I can't speak about 97.1. EDIT: . . . other than to say that I have a hard time believing that a Detroit radio station could possibly become the face of a school/program. I don't have figures, but I think it's reasonable to postulate that the majority of MSU grads live outside of the Detroit area.
Just to chime in your statements of value, I somewhat agree, but that doesn't necessarily apply to a decent amount of fans. On this blog alone, I can think of several people who are either obviously too young for college, in a foreign country, or at an institution that better serves their needs.
I would fit the "Walmart Wolverine" meme though I was accepted at UM. Financial considerations meant I took an academic scholarship at another school instead. For others, coming out of CA or TX or even NY (a hell of a lot of population in those three) plus Chicago (my home) are all looking at out of state fees which are a big barrier. I have no problem admitting I didn't/couldn't go to UM, but I sure as hell love both the athletic program and the fanbase. To be clear, I have a lot of respect for the school as well, but respect in a more distant way. I have no problem rooting against my university in a football or basketball (or whatever) game, but I'm not about to denigrate my own academics for the sake of M/family.
You're a paragon case of someone who fits quite clearly outside of this stupid "WW" meme.
To me, it's pretty simple - it's like a conjunctive legal test:
Rule: If you* (1) adopt M as your own; (2) in the course of being an asshole to and/or denigrating another school, then you should anticipate attachment of the WW moniker. You simply have no grounds to denigrate another school from a position you don't actually have. And the "pro sports team" defense will not save anyone in my view (as noted above).
Contrarily, if you don't meet BOTH elements of this test, then rock on brother. No one will care - you can claim it as your own, and anyone who says otherwise is himself or herself an asshole.
Comment: Now, of course we need case law interpretation to flesh out the hazy stuff (i.e., what is "in the course of" and "asshole" and "denigrating"), but that's the test I carry around in my head.
Application/Conclusion: From what I've seen, you're not an asshole at all, but a good and reasonable individual with interesting insights; therefore, you don't adopt M in the course of being an asshole towards others or denigrating other schools.
Also, I cited "tuition costs" as a primary reason that people don't go to M. Obviously, this has nothing to do with your merits, and perhaps I should have made that more clear.
*(generic "you," not actual you as JGB)
Oh I know exactly what you mean. I just didn't see in that particular post your addressing that fact, which I think is a pretty big deal.
I know I'm not going to come on here and hear "WW" from you; frankly I'm not concerned about it at all (aside from a few students/alums who apparently don't care that my current school is literally as good as it gets in my speciality because it's not Michigan, that gets annoying).
And thanks, I try not to be an asshole; I certainly don't bank on superiority for the sake of superiority, especially one not "earned" which was really your original point.
Jealous b/c they're not MSU fans.
Pro/College distinction is irrelevant for programs like Michigan, OSU, Texas, USC, etc. MSU-type schools make this distinction given they can't really do anything else.
Being a fan doesn't have to be earned through anything other than loyalty and passion. Non-graduate fans of Oklahoma, Nebraska, Boise St, etc. (in addition to those colleges and pro sports teams above) would find your argument odd and unnecessary: why do you care who I'm a fan of? It's classic insecurity, like an angry boy insulting those who've rejected him. There are few, outside of Spartan fans, who don't understand this.
I've lived all over the country, seen Red Wing fans, Lion fans, and Michigan fans... don't ever remember running into an MSU fan. But you can't blame WW's for that.
But it's probably my fault - I'm not the sharpest dude.
Jealous b/c they're not MSU fans.
Huh? MSU students and grads are jealous because they're not MSU fans (?!)
I couldn't really understand the rest, for which I apologize (again, not too sharp, admittedly). If you'd like me to say why on each point specifically in a point-by-point way, I'd be happy to.
Otherwise, I have to get ready to watch the wings. Let's hope for the sweep. Our guys could use the rest.
April 20th, 2011 at 10:07 PM ^
it's a tired argument anyway. I don't think many care why MSU fans are obsessed with WW. Just like I don't care why you're a Wal-Mart Red Wing fan, though I don't mind that you are one. I'm glad you're on board.
<br>I, however, did go to the University of Detroit Red Wings, so I've got a stake in how this game turns out. Go Wings!
April 20th, 2011 at 10:39 PM ^
I'm always happy to set aside difference of opinion and celebrate common ground. Good exchange too - I appreciate the back and forth.
I've never been called a Walmart Red Wing fan before (I actually bought a Lidstrom shirt at Meijer once), but what the hell! I'll join with you - LGRW!
April 20th, 2011 at 10:55 PM ^
He thinks the purveyors of WW are jealous that someone with no allegiance to either university would choose to root for U-M rather than their beloved Spartans.