so DB lied to us
January 16th, 2011 at 1:43 PM ^
So how much do we think Hoke is getting? He was only making $700,000 at SDSU. How much of a raise are we giving him?
January 16th, 2011 at 1:49 PM ^
Not much more, maybe up to 1.5, but either way he's cheaper and leaves more money for a top DC.
January 16th, 2011 at 2:12 PM ^
Meaning a top DC. We seem to be looking at Vance Bedford, who definitely is not one.
January 16th, 2011 at 1:52 PM ^
Next stop: the center of the Earth.
January 16th, 2011 at 2:36 PM ^
that once he gets to the center of the Earth, he has truly hit bottom, literally cannot go lower.
January 16th, 2011 at 1:59 PM ^
The farther removed I am from the hiring of Brady Hoke, the less it seems to matter to me. This being said, I get the feeling that Les Miles was probably given some sort of courtesy offer in the knowledge that he would likely not accept it. Seems like a lot of what happened down at LSU was meant to drum up support from their skeptical fanbase (i.e., they knew that historically he wanted to be at Michigan) than to sincerely be the prelude to Les Miles coming here. I have to believe also that, at some point, for however brief a time, Harbaugh was going to come, but alas, that didn't happen. Again, I have no basis for that other than my own feeling from everything that I read.
Was Dave Brandon lying? Well, if we're going to pursue that, then let us break it down and discuss it this way - about what?
January 16th, 2011 at 2:01 PM ^
Brandon's incentive to lie -- make it look like Michigan job is super-attractive, and no one would turn it down.
Jacobs's incentive to lie -- make LSU look like a more attractive place to coach, make Les Miles look like his loyalties to LSU have never been stronger, and make it seem like LSU doesn't have to up its contract
I think Jacobs's incentive to lie are as much as, if not more, than Brandon's.
I also think that, for better or for worse, Hoke WAS Brandon's first choice:
January 16th, 2011 at 2:38 PM ^
what does that say about Brandon??!!
January 16th, 2011 at 3:43 PM ^
How about we give Hoke a chance to coach this team before we draw conclusions about "what it says"?
January 16th, 2011 at 5:29 PM ^
This is obvious, but thanks for posting because apparently some people don't see the obvious.
Where is the proof that Jacobs isn't lying? Why are people so quick to assume that DB lied based on this statement? The only objective reason would be that this statement was made more recently...
This all is like something out of Animal Farm.
January 16th, 2011 at 2:05 PM ^
This should surprise absolutely no one. Hoke was never the first choice, and by all accounts Brandon asked Harbaugh, Miles, and Fitzgerald and all either weren't interested or turned down an offer. This is why all of the "Brandon said Hoke was #1 and you guys are all just haterz" rants annoyed me - I'm going to support Hoke, but he was the third or fourth option at the winningest football program in history, and that really bothers me.
January 16th, 2011 at 2:06 PM ^
As opposed to what? Standing in front of the podium and saying "No, he wasn't my first choice. Actually, he wasn't even my second choice. But he was the first guy who said yes, so that's why we're standing here today..." If that makes him a "liar", then so be it. In the end, which statement would you really be more upset about?
January 16th, 2011 at 2:11 PM ^
On another note, did anyone else notice the quote "Rocket surgeon".. I hope this was intentional.
January 16th, 2011 at 2:35 PM ^
The way this likely worked with Miles, if LSU is telling the truth, is that Miles' agent talked contract terms with the office of the AD. DB's visit with Miles probably did not include the phrase "Les, I would like to offer you the head coaching position at Michigan". It was probably more along the lines of "So, we aren't able to come to terms, is that what I understand?" or "Sorry we couldn't make this work" or "What do you think of Brady?"
I am not guessing here, either. The typical first discussion I have when I am recruited for new positions involves expectations for compensation. I have the same conversation with candidates when I am hiring as well. The reason I do this is so I don't waste time putting someone through a long interview process if we are way off on our compensation expectations. The higher the level of compensation, the longer this initial discussion lasts -- especially if your qualifications for the position are well established.
So, we get back to the definition of "offered". I am sure someone at Michigan contacted Miles' people and basic terms were discussed. Miles, obviously, was not interested in those terms and the discussion stopped. DB probably never officially offered the job to Miles and he probably wasn't the person who talked terms with Miles.
So no one is lying. Everyone is telling their version of the truth.
January 16th, 2011 at 2:49 PM ^
There are many ways to discuss the parameters of a hypothetical offer, without ever actually offering the job.
So Brandon can say truthfully that he never formally offered Miles, even if he made it clear that he would offer if Miles wanted it. The same, of course, is true of Harbaugh, even if the exact words “I offer you the job of head coach at Michigan” were never uttered.
January 16th, 2011 at 2:55 PM ^
- Did John Taylor or Stanley Jacobs attend the meeting between Brandon and Miles?
- Since the answer is NO then who could have told them what was discussed during the meeting?
- Obvious answer - Miles, so does Les Miles have anything to gain by telling Jacobs and others that he turned down Michigan's advances (including more money)?
- Do you still think Brandon isn't telling the truth?
January 16th, 2011 at 3:43 PM ^
The truth is always somewhere in the middle.
Hoke may be the only coach who was given a formal offer, but I have to believe that Harbaugh, and possibly Miles, were told the job was there's if they wanted it.
Conversely, I'm sure the LSU money discussion isn't 100% accurate either.
January 16th, 2011 at 3:48 PM ^
Is it likely that 100 percent of what Brandon has told us over the past 10 months is true? No.
Is it something we should obsess about? No.
We have our guy. Whether he works out for us remains to be seen. But it serves little purpose to keep on wailing about what might have been.
January 16th, 2011 at 3:49 PM ^
There is a lot of garbage on NBC Sports' website for both college football and the NFL. They are notorious rumor-mongerers. I wouldn't believe it.
January 16th, 2011 at 4:31 PM ^
In some instances it's counterproductive to be completely honest with the general public. Maybe this was the case, maybe not. It feels demeaning to be mislead, but that's the way it goes.
January 16th, 2011 at 8:15 PM ^
DB has a lot of reasons in stating things the way he did.
1. He doesn't want to label Brady Hoke as "second choice" just as one wouldn't want to label any important hire or relationship as a "second choice". Imagine how that would go over with the fans and just apply that to your own personal life: "Oh, honey, yes I'm very happy with you but if Ms. Victoria Secret had wanted me she was my first choice." Neither he nor any of the potential hires wanted to be embarassed.
2. Technically he is probably actually correct. In these types of jobs where the pay is in the high 6 and low 7 figures, what usually takes place is a set of meetings between representatives and/or the principals. Our side puts out feelers to the reps of Harbaugh and then reportedly Miles asking basically "hey, were the job at the UM (note subjunctive mood) to be offered, do you think he'll be interested." Then if we have a positive nibble "well, if the job were to be offered we'd certainly like to hear more like conditions x, y, and z." Then we dance back with "OK, sure we understand that you'll be interested in conditions x,y, and z and we can offer terms a, b, and c."
3. At this point after who knows how many iterations, if both sides are still doing this dance, one side or another, will bring up "well, it certainly sounds like we are on the same page, shall we make it a formal deal?". Then an "offer letter" is formally drafted up on official stationary, with all of these points x,y,z and terms a,b,c listed out, so that both sides can have their lawyers do one last vetting through.
So, yes, he is probably absolutely correct and can pass a lie detector test easily when he states only Brady Hoke got an offer, because probably he was the only one who got that far. We don't know how far the initial dance got with Jim Harbaugh or Les Miles. One factor to keep in mind is that we don't know how much either JH or LM wanted to come to Ann Arbor. Both have other negotiations to deal with, and so keeping alive the discussion about JH or LM possibly going to Ann Arbor may be useful to their reps when dealing with say the 49ers or LSU.
But no doubt he did "talk" with other people and their reps besides Brady Hoke.
One day, when Brandon writes his memoirs we might know his side in detail.
January 16th, 2011 at 5:33 PM ^
Harbaugh and Miles were NEVER considered for the job. The "national job search" was a big sham, created to get everyone behind Hoke. "Harbaugh's going to the NFL"...."Miles is staying in Baton Rouge"...If anyone really thinks Miles would have stayed at LSU over Michigan, they are crazy. And the same goes with Harbaugh. Hoke was the ONLY choice and the "job search" was just window dressing. Mary Sue Coleman didn't want Harbaugh or Miles.
The meeting with Miles was basically to make fans and alumni happy. Brandon can say, I never offered Miles the job because he made it clear that he was happy at LSU. And he never offered the job to Harbaugh because he was heading to the NFL. There are 32 jobs in the NFL and openings come up every year. The Michigan job is 1 of 1 and may not open again for 10 years. Harbaugh was able to use the Michigan job to leverage NFL money. Miles was able to use the Michigan job to "show" loyalty to LSU. It was a win, win for all sides.