Size of all Top 25 NT/NG's
I know this is a topic that is being talked about a lot now. But I wanted to bring out actual numbers for comparison, to see what other teams are doing compared to Michigan. Is Michigan's defensive line small compared to other schools? And does it matter? Let's take a look at it.
Here's the size of the NT/NG's from all Top 25 schools:
1. LSU
2. Ohio St
3. Clemson
4. Oklahoma
5. Georgia
6. Oregon
7. Baylor
8. Wisconsin
9. Florida
10. Penn St.
11. Utah, pictured are both Utah interior defensive linemen
Is it any wonder Utah is #1 against the run? Wouldn't it be nice for Michigan to have just one of these guys at this size?
12. Auburn
13. Alabama
14. Michigan
15. Notre Dame
16. Iowa
17. Memphis
18. Minnesota
19. Boise St
20. Appalachian St
21. Cincinnati
22. USC
23. Navy
24. Virginia
25. Oklahoma St
As can be seen, size does matter. All perennial big names have a NT/NG weighing 300 or more. I'm sure there's good reason for it.
Michigan lost two potential interior defensive linemen through position switch, and, transfer, Aubrey Solomon and James Hudson. Both are bigger than both of Michigan's current interior lineman starters.
But if they both were still here, and playing on defensive line, would it help against this on January 1?
Michigan needs an upgrade at defensive line. And I'm not meaning that Kemp and Dwumfour are not good players. They are great players. But I don't think either should be playing at Nose.
But what do you think?
One solution on how to beat Alabama, is for the offense to be ready to score like a track meet, to be ready to outscore them, to make up for any deficiency in defense. Or is that wrong?
I'm hoping there's going to be some bigger D Linemen here soon, through transfer and/or recruiting.
December 14th, 2019 at 3:31 AM ^
Hol up.
Navy has a bigger DT than UM.
December 14th, 2019 at 9:18 AM ^
We a service academy school now
December 14th, 2019 at 3:54 AM ^
I've said this before but people don't seem to understand: you are going to play Wisconsin and Iowa perhaps every year. And if you do miss them in a schedule, perhaps, maybe just maybe, in the big ten championship. Regardless you are going to play Ohio State every year. At least until Michigan leaves the big ten conference (wishful thinking). You need to have bigger guys up front for certain downs and situations. You just do.
I never want to see goal line (LB) Glasgow sized lineups again vs the cheese curd eaters. That was pathetic and not our player's fault. They were put in situation where they couldn't succeed vs a mammoth wall of Wisconsin great lakes girth.
December 14th, 2019 at 4:48 AM ^
Mammoth wall of Wisconsin great lakes girth
...is the best run of words I've read in a while.
December 14th, 2019 at 9:58 AM ^
If he only added "engorged with cheese curds" to the end of that phrase.
December 14th, 2019 at 4:56 AM ^
I'm with the OP on at least one point (viz, the importance of a big guy in the middle).
But, I think some people here want an entire line of 300+ guys. (This is usually accompanied by something like "DUH ... you gotta keep up with the Wisconsins of the world.")
OSU has _one_ guy over 300 pounds on their defensive line. The other three are south of that weight. How come they didn't get steamrolled by Michigan's much bigger offensive line?
December 14th, 2019 at 5:53 AM ^
OSU plays one 300lb dude, and 3 280+ dudes on the two deep.
Michigan plays one 280lb dude, and everyone else is less.
December 14th, 2019 at 5:03 AM ^
Utah is number 1 against the run because they played shitty teams. They got steamrolled by Oregon on the ground.
December 14th, 2019 at 5:08 AM ^
Jeter, Paea and Dwumfor are all right around 300 pounds but...
I'm all in for a big NT space eater who can push the pocket, but just being 300+ is not enough.
Filiaga has the size but I guess he is not suited to defense... or they have not tried him there.
December 14th, 2019 at 10:34 AM ^
I read somewhere, that Filiaga is ready to start next year on O Line. But yeah, he's huge, 6' 6". 242. I don't know if they've ever gave him a try on the D Line.
December 14th, 2019 at 10:34 AM ^
I hope hes a little bigger than 242.
December 14th, 2019 at 10:46 AM ^
342
typo
December 14th, 2019 at 6:03 AM ^
Appreciate the effort put into this post! I agree. Kemp would be really good as a 3-tech. As a NT, he's undersized. I'm definitely hoping that the Hinton/Smith era is a great era for our defense starting next year. And I agree that we have to bulk up in the classes behind them.
December 14th, 2019 at 6:03 AM ^
Appreciate the effort put into this post! I agree. Kemp would be really good as a 3-tech. As a NT, he's undersized. I'm definitely hoping that the Hinton/Smith era is a great era for our defense starting next year. And I agree that we have to bulk up in the classes behind them.
December 14th, 2019 at 8:26 AM ^
Looking forward to the next era of defensive line as well. Unfortunately this season was down and it showed in certain games. Frustrating that over last several years, defensive line was a strength.
December 14th, 2019 at 10:48 AM ^
Maybe the big difference in what we see now is between Greg Mattison and Shaun Nua.
December 14th, 2019 at 6:20 AM ^
"Penisini"...
December 14th, 2019 at 9:41 AM ^
Saw that, and later in the post he claims “size does matter.” And (for now at least) there’s another post on the board about pboners.
December 14th, 2019 at 6:48 AM ^
So michigan got 2 top DT’s in 2019 with Hinton and Mazi, they need start next year. Clemson for the 2020 class, has 3 of top 5 defensive linemen (SDE,WDE,DT) commited, and actually a 4th of the group is favored for Clemson. So 4/5 top all d linemen in 2020 class are going Clemson.....and we wonder how games are won?
December 14th, 2019 at 8:29 AM ^
Carlo Kemp is going to be Michigan's coach in 15-20 years. Don't like seeing posts dissing him.
Aubrey Solomon was prototypical size but didn't have the drive/desire. Tom Brady was a [7th] round pick because he didn't have all the measurables on paper. Desire and hard work over come a lot.
December 14th, 2019 at 9:27 AM ^
Your Brady statement is true but his proficiency is far less dictated by physics than a NT’s is.
December 14th, 2019 at 10:35 AM ^
This post doesn't diss him.
December 14th, 2019 at 1:12 PM ^
TB12 was picked 199 overall and was a 6 th round selection. He should have started and played over Henson, more games would have been won.
December 14th, 2019 at 8:39 AM ^
I'm wondering how many of these numbers are WWE style numbers. It is known that sometimes players exaggerate their height and weight
December 14th, 2019 at 8:59 AM ^
I’ve never heard of guys exaggerating their height/weight. I should know, I’m 7’4” 380.
December 14th, 2019 at 9:05 AM ^
Appreciate the confirmation. But anyone that watches college football could've told you this.
They tried to sell it as we need to get faster on D as if Kemp was going to be covering crossing routes. It was all bullshit.
They don't have to play every snap...but Uche didn't and we see his impact. He was somewhat of a specialist/situational player for at least half the year.
Maybe the huge NGs are always needed but there are always going to be goal line and short yardage situations in addition to games against 2-3 teams with massive OLs.
We need to treat NG like QB. Get just ONE big boy a year. That's 4 or 5 scholarships. ONE guy who is already 285+ coming out of HS.
I honestly feel like we should've played Onwenu at NG in short yardage situations and given him a series off on the OL each game. But no...we were running Ben Mason onto the field.
December 14th, 2019 at 9:20 AM ^
Take a look at the top DTs on 247, of the 4 star or better...Clemson has the top TWO (plus #11).
Bama has 3 guys. OSU has 2. Georgia has 2.
Only playoff team that doesn't is Oklahoma and we all know their defense blows. They just have the offense to make up for it AND (more importantly) they play in the Big 12 where they can get away with it.
If Michigan played in the Big 12 it would've been playing Oklahoma for a spot in the CFP. No question in my mind.
If Jonathan Taylor played in the Big 12 behind his Wisconsin OL he'd be holding a Heisman tonight.
But we don't. We don't have ONE DT commit. We had Denver Warren but he decommitted (which may be a good move).
But Justin Rogers is from the state. He's #4.
Cole Brevard is from IN, #19.
Dominic Bailey is at Biff Poggi's HS in Baltimore where we have 3 guys already committed. He's #20.
Lamar Goods is from CT...where Don Brown always pulls top talent. He is #34.
...and those are just the 4 star guys.
December 14th, 2019 at 10:57 AM ^
There isn't even a Michigan "M" in the entire list of DT's:
https://247sports.com/Season/2020-Football/RecruitRankings/?InstitutionGroup=HighSchool&Position=DT
It seems to be the area of greatest need.
December 15th, 2019 at 7:49 PM ^
Scrolling through that list is sobering to say the least....
December 14th, 2019 at 9:22 AM ^
...and don't get me started on CB.
We see we can't cover yet we don't make it priority one to get guys who cover.
Even though our best success against OSU was when we had NFL talent that could cover their NFL WRs even a little bit.
December 14th, 2019 at 11:11 AM ^
Actually our best success against OSU was when we had a dominant DL that sacked JT Barrett 8 times. The DL is and always has been the key, and unfortunately that area has been weaker for us the past 2 years.
December 14th, 2019 at 9:23 AM ^
Mo Hurst: Oakland Raiders, 291 pounds.
Shit, that doesn't fit your narrative though, does it?
Kemp's problem isn't that he doesn't weigh enough, it's that he isn't skilled enough. Yes, DT is a weakness this year, but I don't understand your attempt to try and quantify it according to weight. Mazi Smith is listed at 305 (and growing) and he will likely be a key player next year. But a 286 pound senior Carlo Kemp is more talented than a 305 pound freshman Mazi Smith. Hopefully a year in the program will propel Smith beyond Kemp, as he has a much higher ceiling.
December 14th, 2019 at 11:40 AM ^
Mo was a pure 3 Tech DT and we didn't play much 3-4 in those years. They played 4-3 most of the time and the NT was a huge guy like Mone who ate all the double teams allowing Mo to feast one-on-one. Current players fit a 3-4 attack better so Brown went mostly with that this past season.
Kemp is a good player, but in the middle of a 3-4. He was really agile in stunts and played well in that role. But when it was time to man up in a 4-3 against OSU-sized beef both he and Dwumfour would get ham blasted.
December 14th, 2019 at 1:16 PM ^
Bruh, Mo Hurst was a generational talent his explosiveness is what set him apart, earlier in his career if he didn’t win with the first step he wasn’t as effective. If it wasn’t for that medical crap from the combine he was a 1st round pick and has been playing as such for the Raiders.
in short Carlo Kemp is not Mo Hurst.
December 14th, 2019 at 9:24 AM ^
The plan on offense should always be to be ready to score like it's a track meet.
December 14th, 2019 at 10:58 AM ^
Michigan offense hasn't been like that since 2016 under Jedd Fisch.
December 14th, 2019 at 11:32 AM ^
I would argue not even then. Regardless, that's one of the problems.
December 14th, 2019 at 12:39 PM ^
You want an LSU offense you're going to have to have someone like Joe Brady.
December 14th, 2019 at 9:34 AM ^
It’s plainly obvious that one space eater needs to be on the field for nearly every down save for very unique situations. It simply can’t be easy for a team to run effectively dead straight ahead. Speed matters the more you get away from the middle. Big blockers running laterally are more likely to be neutralized by smaller faster defenders. There is no answer for big blockers running straight ahead and re-establishing the LOS 3-5 yds at the snap.
Get a space eater fergodsakes
December 14th, 2019 at 10:20 AM ^
We have Mid Major sized DTs and yet somehow this is okay with the coaching staff... what. The. Fuck.
December 14th, 2019 at 4:37 PM ^
Michigan has been a top 10 program since Harbuagh’s arrival. Coming off a fringe top 25 program. He has been very good. It’s fair to criticize him for not being great. But you act like things are a mess here. We are 19-6 the last 25 games. Chill.
December 14th, 2019 at 10:34 AM ^
Size has nothing to do with performance. At least that's what I'm selling my wife.
December 14th, 2019 at 10:51 AM ^
Mo Hurst takes exception to your weight argument. Dude is a fucking monster and he's like 270lbs. It's not about weight, unless you're running a 3-4 and need a giant NT.
We just don't have uber-talented DL at the moment. We've got some good ones and some very good ones, but no one on our DL is elite. Hutchinson is tracking that way, but without a Mo Hurst-esque elite talent it makes it a lot tougher, regardless of how much they weigh.
December 14th, 2019 at 10:59 AM ^
Maybe Shaun Nua is the issue?
Maurice Hurst was 280. https://mgoblue.com/sports/football/roster/maurice-hurst/16301
And Michigan had Bryan Mone on the line with Mo, at least in some games.
December 14th, 2019 at 11:34 AM ^
Still 'undersized', and still a dominant player.
December 14th, 2019 at 11:35 AM ^
WTF does the guy who's been here 10 months get the blame when the pied piper of backstabbing, whose at this very moment moving into his new office in Columbus, was at the helm when the "goddam plane crashed into the goddam mountain".
December 14th, 2019 at 12:41 PM ^
Ok, then Shaun Nua's great. The D line is great.
December 15th, 2019 at 9:20 AM ^
You don’t have to act like he’s great. But let’s not blame the guy who has been here less than a year for how juniors and seniors have bulked up and performed.
December 14th, 2019 at 11:12 AM ^
Another key is that only 2 of the top 15 ish guys are not in atleast their 3rd year in the system. All but what, 3, are 3yr sophomores or older. 4 of the top 5 are in their last years of eligibility. Hinton and Smith will get there, but it's looking like atleast another year until truly ready. Must keep the position a priority.
December 14th, 2019 at 11:15 AM ^
Our NT is closer in size to a G5 player than a player at a top football program.
Not a knock on Kemp, the guy was set up to fail.