Should Desmond's #21 (or any other player's number) be retired?
I think we've had this conversation, in one forum or another, previously, but it's the Friday before THE GAME and another potential candidate (#5) has an opportunity to add to his fledgling resume for consideration tomorrow.
I'm glad Desmond is finally receiving his much-deserved recognition, but if his number had been retired when originally planned, we wouldn't have been able to see Junior Hemingway rock the #21 in Maize and Blue.
The question: Should a MICHIGAN player's number be retired, or should there be an alternative form of recognition that would also allow future Michigan greats to add to the number's legacy? (Ring of Honor or other)
Bonus Question: Can you name other notable Wolverines that have worn a retired number previous to its retirement?
November 27th, 2015 at 12:38 PM ^
November 27th, 2015 at 12:40 PM ^
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November 27th, 2015 at 12:51 PM ^
November 27th, 2015 at 2:32 PM ^
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November 27th, 2015 at 12:45 PM ^
November 27th, 2015 at 2:32 PM ^
As I care about it just being a stupid tradition.
The answer is simple and was discussed earlier in the week.
Make a ring of honor and build statues around the stadium for your legends.
The number does NOT make the player...saying "no one can ever wear this number" again is just silly.
It's especially silly for MICHIGAN. Why? Anthony Carter. You can't retire numbers based on performance and not retire his. Oh wait, he wore #1...and that poses a problem at Michigan.
Same with Woodson to a lesser extent (because the #2 best defensive player thing was only done for a year). So now no one can wear #1 or #2 at Michigan?
It's just foolish.
No. Honor the player - not his number. Honor his name and legacy. You're not doing that (IMO) by saying you can't wear that number anymore.
To me, you retire numbers when they belong to Pat Tillman and stories like that. That is perfectly understandable. Retire his number. Maybe Ford or Harmon fit into that category.
But there's nothing wrong with players in a #11 jersey at Michigan. As long as people know the Wistert bros. at Michigan.
I don't know why we have to make this thing so complicated...like I said, if you want to debate on Ford or Harmon, I can see that. Everything else should be honored in name/legacy/etc. - Put the name on the press box in maize, build a statue, etc.
November 27th, 2015 at 2:42 PM ^
The more the tradition of retiring a number (under traditional circumstances) is just plain silly.
Do you really think the average, even above average fan notices when a number isn't on the field? There are over 100 guys on the sideline. 11 on the field. How is anyone supposed to realistically realize that a number that isn't on the field, isn't on the sideline? No one would notice that.
Do you think the majority of the people that walk into Michigan Stadium on Saturday are going to realize that Michigan doesn't have a #11 or #47? And if they do...do you think they're going to know why?
You're talking about a small group of people who actually understand the purpose.
You'd honor the player and the name and make people celebrate the importance SO much more if the number was permanently on the stadium, like on the press boxes. And if there was a statue of that player around the stadium for fans to visit.
Again, if it's a Pat Tillam situation...take it away, no question. In the case of Desmond and everyone else, I'd like to see D. Howard #21 (or years he played) on the pressbox and I'd like to be able to see a statue where I can take a picture next to it and read about his accomplishments. Not seeing #21 on the field doesn't teach me a thing.
November 27th, 2015 at 2:56 PM ^
I would much prefer a life size statue of Woodson in the exact pose of that interception... somehow suspended mid-air.
November 27th, 2015 at 5:25 PM ^
I have such strong feelings about this. I'd like to see the numbers in use. I don't feel too strongly about that either way.
What I do care about is that we honor those numbers at the stadium. Numbers posted would be fine, but put up statues somewhere. My favorite part about going to Comerica Park with my sons was walking along the row of statues in leftfield. The statues are amazing quality. They bring the players to life. And there I am, standing with my two sons, telling them stories of Al Kaline. A couple years later my son got an Al Kaline autograph from Lakeland training camp, and it meant a lot to him because he had a much greater sense of who Al Kaline was. Yes, that came from talking about his numbers while looking at the statue, but more because my boys were there with me, listeing to me tell them stories about what made these players Detroit legends for me, my father, and my grandfather.
Imagine those type of statues at The Big House. Imagine sharing the story of Michigan's greatest with your children. Telling them the story about being there for Desmond's punt return against OSU. Telling them the difference and awe that Woodson brought to the game as a great CB who became a three-way player and first defensive Heisman winner. About President Ford, who would play Hail to the Victors instead of Hail to the Chief in the White House. About Tom Harmon, who received a standing ovation in Ohio stadium, just a couple years before going to war to fight the Nazis.
No university celebrates tradition and history of its program like UM. Having statues somewhere at the Big House would be such a great way for the elders to pass these stories down to the young'uns.
Imagine these type of statues somewhere in the Big House and all the stories they would facilitate the telling of. The history and tradition that could be shared among generations.
November 27th, 2015 at 3:35 PM ^
November 27th, 2015 at 4:06 PM ^
Oh, the 'crootin take. Go on.
November 27th, 2015 at 4:17 PM ^
November 27th, 2015 at 12:46 PM ^
I actually really liked the legends jerseys, I've never been a fan of retiring a players jersey, and thought that this was a creative way to honor former players. That is the one thing Brandon initiated that I wish had stuck around. Unfortunately I think it was a victim of its creator, in that since it was something started under Brandon, it was doomed to be taken out back and shot once he was ousted.
November 27th, 2015 at 1:16 PM ^
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November 27th, 2015 at 1:19 PM ^
I was under the impression they were offered the legends jerseys
November 27th, 2015 at 1:24 PM ^
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November 27th, 2015 at 1:38 PM ^
If there were no patches the legends jerseys wouldn't be specifically tied to one player, so, for example if UM were to have an amazing QB who wore the #11 jersey, that legends jersey wouldn't merely symbolize the Wistert bros, but that QB as well, thus allowing future players to "build their own legends" albeit in the jersey of a former player.
Alternatively if the jerseys included patches which said "Michigan Legend" or something like that It would accomplish the same goal. I am not a fan of retiring jerseys or putting Michigan players names on the stadium, and I wasn't a fan of the names being on the patches. Michigan is not about individuals, no matter how great, it's about the team. The Team, The Team, The Team.
November 27th, 2015 at 3:38 PM ^
November 27th, 2015 at 12:57 PM ^
I thought the Legends jerseys program was awful. The patches were huge and awkward (patches just seem tacky to me), and I really didn't like players switching from their original jerseys into a legend jersey since that completely killed the opportunity for them to make a legend of their own.
We have giant empty blue walls on both sides of the stadium. As others have said, I don't know why we can't find a class and sleek way of doing a ring of honor. Keep the numbers in circulation, and if you wind up with multiple great players on a single number - like the #1 - then so be it. I'd much rather keep great numbers in circulation.
November 27th, 2015 at 5:51 PM ^
The patches on the jerseys looked terrible, cheap. Made the players look like a walking billboard, another commercialized move by DB.
Can't imagine Bo honoring individual players with special numbers/jerseys. "The team, the team", right. I also can't remember any of the players having outstanding seasons while wearing them.
November 27th, 2015 at 1:00 PM ^
Any kind of display for retired numbers inside the stadium would feel wrong to me. Too much emphasis on individuals rather than the team.
November 27th, 2015 at 1:09 PM ^
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November 27th, 2015 at 1:20 PM ^
except for a defensive back
November 27th, 2015 at 1:22 PM ^
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November 27th, 2015 at 1:28 PM ^
I think it was Hoke's idea, but I could be wrong. Basically they said, Vincent Smith would be the last non-DB to wear #2, and then it would go to a really really good DB. Which is why they gave it to Countess after his best season.
November 27th, 2015 at 1:32 PM ^
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November 27th, 2015 at 1:43 PM ^
I could see Lewis or Peppers being offered the #2 jersey next season. But while Lewis had started to prove himself to be an amazing cover corner last season, neither plaer had really stepped forward and made a decisive case for it until this year (in all fairness though, Peppers was injured for effectively all of last season), and I doubt the staff would offer a kid a new number midway through the season.
November 27th, 2015 at 2:11 PM ^
Actually a freshman was already told he could wear #2 next year, Ahmir Mitchell.
November 27th, 2015 at 2:57 PM ^
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November 27th, 2015 at 2:15 PM ^
Unless the fan/media pressure brings attention to it and he's got to "earn" it like so many people think happens with the #1 jersey.
November 27th, 2015 at 1:42 PM ^
November 27th, 2015 at 1:57 PM ^
This was something ONE coach did for ONE year.
It's not a tradition.
Using the same logic, we're going to wear winged helmets with little numbers on them from now on.
Just cause Hoke tried something for a year doesn't mean it'll last and it's still a tradition. That was something Hoke did...just like patches were something Brandon did.
November 27th, 2015 at 2:09 PM ^
Hoke did it for a year before getting fired...that was it.
It's a tradition that doesn't exist.
November 27th, 2015 at 1:07 PM ^
November 27th, 2015 at 1:11 PM ^
If Junior hadn't had 21, he would have had some other number, and that's the way that it goes.
You retire a number as the highest honor for the player that wore it. That's also the way that it goes.
November 27th, 2015 at 1:12 PM ^
November 27th, 2015 at 1:16 PM ^
Not only does it honor a great player of Michigan, but it's the direct antithesis of what Dave Brandon would. So retiring jerseys accomplishes 1) the honoring of a great player 2) Gives D. Brandon a big F you.
November 27th, 2015 at 1:18 PM ^
November 27th, 2015 at 1:22 PM ^
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November 27th, 2015 at 1:24 PM ^
or Wistert brothers? You still run into the issue that at some point someone's accomplishments may merit having their jersey retired but they don't get that honor because they were born too late.
November 27th, 2015 at 1:23 PM ^
November 27th, 2015 at 1:37 PM ^
November 27th, 2015 at 1:57 PM ^
November 27th, 2015 at 1:26 PM ^
#1 for our best receiver
#2 for our best DB (recognizing this would be new)
ONLY retire if previously retired OR a Heisman
November 27th, 2015 at 1:34 PM ^
November 27th, 2015 at 2:26 PM ^
oops. Didn't think that one through...
And what happens if a #1 wins a Heisman?
November 27th, 2015 at 2:29 PM ^
November 27th, 2015 at 2:25 PM ^
Ahmir Mitchell has already said on twitter he's wearing #2 next year.
November 27th, 2015 at 1:39 PM ^
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