Rittenberg: Harbaugh wary of mental health use in waivers
Obligatory SIAP since I would expect this to have popped up on here but I didn't see it in recent board posts and came up empty when MGoSearching the URL. Rittenberg's ESPN article at https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/27224299/harbaugh-wary-mental-health-use-waivers.
His comments are being scrutinized in the context of the James Hudson NCAA waiver denial, which has re-emerged with Hudson's mom speaking in greater detail about a meeting with Harbaugh - https://www.espn.com/college-football/story/_/id/27224299/harbaugh-wary-mental-health-use-waivers.
There's also a Cincy insider Chand Brendel saying Harbaugh "has actively tried to block [Hudson's] waiver" - https://twitter.com/ChadBrendel/status/1152790032526315521?s=19.
Surprised this isn't getting more run.
Just got off a 35-minute phone call w/ @CoachJim4UM. I’ll be headed to Ann Arbor soon 2 learn from his mental-health experts on staff (6). I plan to share my experiences,too. I cannot commend coach enough for picking up the phone on a Sun. to destroy stigma around #mentalhealth.
— Rachel JOY Baribeau (@RachelBaribeau) July 21, 2019
The only people who have voiced any issue with how UM handles mental health issues is Hudson and his family and Darren Rovell, the latter mostly pissed that a bunch of athletes weren't forced to come to his company's talk like at other schools. At least two players have gone on the record to say UM helped them handle depression and other mental health issues, and others have backed them up.
I'm sure James Hudson suffers from mental health issues. I also tend to believe UM and Harbaugh handles them pretty proactively; it would be against his general behavior to have what amounts to a single-player vendetta with Hudson while other guys seem to be able to transfer with minimal issues. My assumption is that Hudson's situation wasn't handled optimally by all sides, and the fact he wasn't granted a waiver (which seems, again, to be completely arbitrary by the NCAA) exposed the nerve even more.
I also think the NCAA puts guys in tough positions where they can't transfer to a better situation unless they jump through certain hoops. I don't know if Hudson spoke up about his mental health issues at UM, but I don't think it should matter in terms of the NCAA granting him a waiver. He should be able to go to a better situation for him, and if the NCAA's stated goal is athletes' health that should be enough. But we also live in a world where "I don't feel safe at this school because some asshole said a racist thing in the stands" (and apparently my sister still feels safe enough to enroll and play softball) and whatever bullshit Tate Martell used to get immediately eligible at Miami works.
So I don't know; this feels like yet another situation where ragging on Michigan and Harbaugh gets you through a couple of slow news cycles and in a week Darren Rovell and his ilk will move on to some other banal talking point and UM will go back to taking pretty good care of their athletes and, perhaps, focus a bit more attention to the mental side of it.
The thing is UM athletes are well aware of the resources available to them if they think they may have mental health problems. Greg Harden and his team do a fantastic job and they are utilized by hundreds of UM student athletes every year. The fact that James Hudson did not seek out the counsel of his office if he was indeed suffering is extremely disappointing. I think Harbaugh knows more about the situation which is why he said what he said, otherwise why draw that analogy? Kids are making up dubious claims all over the country to get eligible, or at the very least embellishing their plight. Perhaps James Hudson is suffering from depression, but that is something that needs to be diagnosed and treated by a professional and his focus should be on getting better, not eligible.
I get what you are saying but just don't block transfers. Its always going to be a bad look for a coach making 6 million a year actively working to cost a college athlete one of four years he has to play. Its not Hudson's fault the NCAA sets up these rules that harm athletes and of course he is going to do whatever he can to do what is best for him. It costs Michigan nothing to not fight this.
Supposed Cincy insider tweet aside, is there any actual evidence is there that Michigan is "fighting this"? They literally can't block it. Are you speculating that the NCAA asked their opinion and they said "nah, we don't think James has any mental health issues"?
The ncaa 100 percent takes into account the previous schools take. Does nobody remember the Patterson waiver situation and how ole miss disputing the waiver held up the timeline? Michigan can’t deny the waiver, they can make it more difficult. I have no knowledge if Michigan did that but they 100 percent could.
also while I’m sure Michigan football has fantastic mental health resources we should never jump to blame an individual dealing with a mental health issue for not seeking them out. There are a million reasons why a person may not want to seek support from services from the same institution that they believe is causing harm to their mental health even if it’s different people in a different department.
"I have no knowledge if Michigan did that but they 100 percent could."
I have no knowledge that you are a serial killer, but you 100 percent could be. You should probably try and have knowledge of something before you start making claims about it.
No one is "blaming" but at the same time he shouldn't be rewarded for not sharing , that's the WHOLE point.
If you reward this one instance others will take advantage, plus it doesn't emphasize the need to seek help for those feeling "off" in any way.
The losing school gets to offer an opinion to the NCAA on waiver applications.
Who said Michigan or Harbaugh is fighting this? Harbaugh used it as an example for why players should be able to transfer 1 time, no questions asked.
This is what confuses me about this whole flap, Harbaugh said he supports one time undergrad transfer with no sit out. That was the context. I realize the example of mental illness as a reason that could be misused in the current system cast an aspersion, but he never said he was talking about Hudson. (I don’t recall if maybe the question asked included Hudson.)
For that matter, if a player is suffering from mental health issues, it would seem playing them immediately may be a risk to the athlete, and therefore may not be wise.
If Glenda Hudson hadn’t spoken up, I think most people would not have made the connection.
Am I missing something here? Who blocked a transfer? Furthermore why should mental health issues even be a factor in why a transfer gets an NCAA waiver that Harbaugh has nothing to do with?
Harbaugh's comments aren't even what Hudson thinks they are. He's not calling anyone out as much as justifying a one time transfer rule so players aren't put into a position to have to lie about stuff to get waivers.
This is exactly correct but it has too much nuance for the average internet click-bait douchebag to grasp. If I was JH I would just go media-silent because there are so many people out there waiting to pounce on his every utterance with bile and castigation.
No doubt that Rovell is a self-aggrandizing toolbag.
The fact that he thinks he's a real journalist is laughable. I work in the sports industry and he is known for being the guy you can manipulate and go to when you need to promote or push a brand. You want to get some eyeballs on a new product? Just send it to Darren under the guise of it being a story idea, and boom the dude does all the pitching for you!
He knows very little about anything but makes these big statements as if he's in the know. Essentially he serves as the Colin Cowherd of sports business. When in reality, he's Chat Sports who somehow made it onto ESPN and then parlayed that into a social following.
This is the guy who tweeted out how much endorsement revenue Oscar Pistorius lost after he killed his GF or pontificates how the Salvation Army was *gasp* using the Ezekial Elliott stunt with the red kettle to generate more donations. He's a hot-take airbag who is laughed at by all the folks in the sports industry.
"I also think the NCAA puts guys in tough positions where they can't transfer to a better situation unless they jump through certain hoops. I don't know if Hudson spoke up about his mental health issues at UM, but I don't think it should matter in terms of the NCAA granting him a waiver. He should be able to go to a better situation for him, and if the NCAA's stated goal is athletes' health that should be enough. But we also live in a world where "I don't feel safe at this school because some asshole said a racist thing in the stands" (and apparently my sister still feels safe enough to enroll and play softball) and whatever bullshit Tate Martell used to get immediately eligible at Miami works."
I think this is the exact thing that Harbaugh was getting at in his comments. If the NCAA cares and student athlete health is a priority it shouldn't matter. If that is the case it could easily have the effect of players wanting to transfer without sitting out using mental health as a reason and having no requirement of proving they have a condition. I didn't understand the outrage from the twitterverse and news media saying he didn't care about mental health when it seemed to me he was saying the opposite and we shouldn't put student athletes in these positions which will end up lessening how serious these conditions can be.
I screwed up the second link to the video of Hudson's mom - that can be found at https://twitter.com/JordanStrack/status/1152613213105770497?s=19.
As for my thoughts... Wangler and Poggi have tweeted in support, noting that UM has plenty of resources for mental health needs. I believe Harbaugh has respect for mental health, and he has said so clearly and directly. As for actively blocking the waiver, color me skeptical as he granted the release, fully endorses a one-time transfer without need for reason, and the NCAA doesn't allow coaches to block transfers. As most agreed when the James Hudson denial first occurred, the NCAA is a shit show when it comes to making determinations.
It can be true that athletes are especially afraid to talk about mental health AND that some players will take advantage of the seriousness of mental health issues to gain advantage with the NCAA. While Harbaugh did not make these comments in response to a question about Hudson, the timing does make it seem like a response to his situation. So I can see where people are connecting the dots to say he's calling the player out. And I think we'd be inclined to react similarly if this were another coach. So I agree with his underlying point and laugh at Rovell's insinuation this is "disgusting" - but he said more than he had to.
"the NCAA is a shit show"
Pretty much sums up that organization.
But they just hired Tom Mars!!
Wait, that's just paying your problem to go away...
Did they really? I was wondering how/why all these transfer waiver requests were getting denied.
i agree that it seemed obvious his whole point is that this transfer waiver should have been a non-issue in the first place, but it's a bad look and a mistake. i think we've always known harbaugh was prone to saying dumb shit, just disappointing it has to wade into these waters.
given that some of his contemporaries in the coaching profession are either involved in cosa nostra level coverups or are themselves into True Detective types of sex crime, it could be worse.
I am not sure what he said was dumb. So it is ok to just sit around and say nothing. That is not his style. He is saying give the eligibility one time to everyone including James. Hipaa does not apply to Harbaugh. It feels like James does not want anyone to know about his issues. The stigma on this topic is very strong and whether Harbaugh should have said it or not is a different story but I wouldn't call it dumb. If anything NCAA is dumb for not allowing this guy when they gave another guy immediate eligibility for someone yelling racial stuff from the seats. Very arbitrary and dumb
i should clarify that i agree with harbaugh's actual take, i just meant that what he said extemporaneously was stupid, because it implied that students are lying about their mental health just because they have to or are told to:
“Once that's known, they're just (getting told to) ‘Say this, or say that to get eligible.’ The problem with that is they're going to say ‘OK, yeah, I’m depressed,’ say what they've got to say. But down the road, I don't see that helping them down the road if it's not a legitimate thing. No one will know, but 10 years down the road, what are you going to say, ‘Oh, I just said what I had to say.’ I think you're putting them in a position that’s not fair, not right.
so i agree with the take that this shouldn't be an issue in the first place because this is america and students should be free to transfer, and his take that putting mental health into the equation to justify a transfer waiver is doubly bad. students should just be allowed to transfer, like coach says. but the manner in which he said it caused this controversy, which is what i called stupid. in hindsight, i probably should have just made my joke about how much worse other coaches are than ours and left it at that.
in the end i'm glad to be arguing about nuanced shit like this rather than whether one of our coaches is eating human babies or indemnifying the yellow king from prosecution with the lansing DA.
I recognize I might be a little biased, but I read the article and thought that it mischaracterized Harbaugh's thoughts a little bit. His main point was that undergrads should get 1 free transfer (because that's the rule in almost every other NCAA sport) so that they don't have to find a reason that could make the NCAA not force them to sit for the next year. If I were him, I would have just left it at that and not brought up specific examples as to avoid situations like these, as someone who struggles with depression (a condition James says that he shares) it is really hard to seek help immediately. I probably wouldn't have been as incensed as James though, but I also don't know how difficult he's found the transfer process. Just my 2 cents.
Harbaugh has always been about the kids, fairness, and consistency.
He doesn’t like rules that allow people to game the system because then people can become rewarded with advantage for being dishonest.
This is just such obvious bullshit.
Agree. His main point is that a kid shouldn't even have to provide a reason to the NCAA. He references FERPA and HIPAA as not coming into play if you didn't have to publicly apply for waiver on the grounds of academic or health issues. But I would rather he not have singled out mental illness as an example of something that might be "not a legitimate thing" given the proximity to Hudson's mom's comments.
On the bright side... just imagine if he cited claims of racism as another "effective way for players to get waivers approved"!
Agree with your post 100%.
There's no doubt that there are some people who have abused the transfer process. JH's point on that is correct. But Hudson also isn't wrong in feeling "singled out" by JH's comments.
Depression is tough - I know. Good luck to all fighting the good fight.
I really don’t think it was Harbaugh’s intention to single Hudson out. It was more an unfiltered response.
I understand Hudson feeling that way and Mom coming to his defense.
Harbaugh argued that people should be able to transfer immediately so they don't have to talk about their mental health issues which is the right take. The whole make stuff up thing was probably a bridge too far considering Hudson, but is also the right take overall. I'm sure Justin Fields experienced racism at Georgia, because he's black and he's in Georgia (or in America), but the comment from the baseball player that he didn't personally hear seems like it would have been irrelevant had he been starting. Point being the world shouldn't be judging if Justin Fields experienced racism or individual players have mental health problems. The opinions will usually fall in line with which side of the transfer you are on.
So Chad Brendel's source and reasoning is completely not stated on their board last time I checked. He couldn't reveal anything he said.
Take that fwiw
Cincy's Chad source is definitely someone in Hudson's camp or directly from Cincinnati who has every reason to do what they can to get him eligible. What Chad bro doesn't realize is that Harbaugh has nothing to do with the waiver. It's between both University Compliance Departments. And all these journos speaking out have never dealt with Compliance (trust me I have and understand the rulebook, which is a real doozy).
Michigan's compliance ain't gonna let him claim that we ignored his mental health in the waiver. Remember when Ole Miss was fighting Shea so hard? It's because he was claiming strongly that they had systemic issues in the AD and football team. When Shea agreed to drop that they supported his waiver.
There's been a coordinated PR push from Cincy/James to put pressure on the NCAA and the easiest way to get the most clicks is to blame Harbaugh. I wish he didn't even mention the mental health part, because as soon as he did he gave ammo to all these headline journalists who pretend they know what's going on.
I hope James is eligible because he deserves to play this year. But he transferred half-way into the season after falling down the depth chart and then a year later claimed it was Michigan's fault for not knowing about mental health issues. The NCAA ruled with all those facts in front of him, and had nothing to do with Harbaugh "supporting mental health issues".
Would he still have been depressed if he was starting at right tackle?
I also don’t understand the argument that “mental health issues” means you should get a waiver to play right away. Couldn’t you argue that mental health is the one time you should have to take a year off...use that time to get yourself right, take time to adapt to a new school, coaching staff.
I just have an issue with “I was struggling with mental health at my last school so I need to transfer to a new one and even though I’ve been at said new school for just one semester and haven’t gone through a full fall camp everything is good and I need to play right away”.
To me this just seems like Hudson/Cincy is upset the NCAA denied the waiver and are taking it out on Harbaugh and involving mental health (not saying he didn’t have issues, but it seems like they’re using the headline grabbing nature of the issue to make their case). If they have a problem, take it up with the NCAA.
I could understand the need to leave a place that feels toxic for you and go to a place that feels like a better fit; a "change of scenery", for as cliche as that is, can absolutely help address some immediate issues. And maybe he does legitimately feel like he'll have a more supportive environment at Cincy.
At this point I basically defer to athletes wanting to transfer and feel like the whole song and dance around why they are leaving is just a waste. But it does feel like Hudson and Cincy are angry he wasn't granted an immediate waiver, and the cynic in me wonders if making a big deal about the fact UM (and by extension the NCAA) doesn't seem to care about mental health is a way to grease the gears a bit on the appeal, much like how the whole Fields situation seemed to turn when the racism rose to prominence. The NCAA is a spineless organization made up of third-rate charlatans in leadership spots, and so any time you can make them even marginally uncomfortable by putting them in a spot where they'd have to take a principled stand that greatly improves your chances of getting what you want.
Yup, that's more or less exactly what Harbaugh said:
"OK, this is America. You started at this school, you didn't like it, and for whatever the reason is, you're freely allowed to transfer to any other school like any other human being would have a right to do.' That's really the bottom line."
Junior Seau would probably vouch that your football career probably has no bearing on your depression/mental health.
Junior played PROFESSIONAL football for 19 years. His brain was found to have all kinds of CTE. Likely a different scenario, wouldn't you agree? If this is the same case, as you're making it out to be, then James should stop playing football immediately because the ending will be a gunshot to the chest.
“I dont understand things.”
-got it
Fugitive that is a horrible take. Did being a starter prevent Junior Seau from being depressed? That’s not how mental illness works. To those saying he should take time off to get better, that’s also not how mental illness works.
O this should be rich:
How does mental health work exactly?
5* feelings?
You’re the type of assh*** that contributes to the stigma that mental health issues have. 5* feelings?? Educate yourself, you could obviously use it.
https://www.mayoclinic.org/diseases-conditions/depression/symptoms-causes/syc-20356007
Psychology is what I studied in college, abnormal at that. And you would more often than not want to take a patient away from the situation which might be a trigger.
So saying he shouldn't take time off is a bad recommendation. Unless he's not really depressed than he can say so and help highlight the importance of taking mental health issues SERIOUSLY.
Well since you studied it then certainly you are aware that you have no idea what the contributing factors are for his issues or if football is related at all. You are certainly not qualified to say if he should take time off or not. When someone says they are depressed or suffering from mental illness, you believe them. Period. It’s asinine for you to assert he is lying and once again, it’s people like you who contribute to the stigma around mental illness. Take the football aspect out of it and stop being such a sh*tty human being about it.
Correct. We have no idea what factors have contributed to or exacerbated his mental health concerns. And it is dangerous to make assumptions about someone else's health, particularly when it comes to mental health.
CH, his point is, his mental health professional would be able to ascertain what his triggers are and tell him what activities to avoid.
I can tell you first hand that va psychiatrist can, and do look for triggers for their patients and will absolutely advice their patients to avoid them.
Squash I agree completely with your statement. My issue was with Fugitive questioning of he would still be depressed if he was starting, essentially questioning if his depression is just a ploy. Maybe it is, maybe it isn’t but none of us can know that.
You should probably get really offended by his post then. I’m not willing to, because I have the same nagging question that he presented. So maybe if you just get even more upset by it, on my behalf, we can settle all this.
as someone who suffers from mental instability, I’m certainly skeptical about this, and not just as it pertains to James Hudson. I find it odd that you want to jump all over Dr. Kimble for his take, which seems like a pretty obvious joke to me, and yet you aren’t willing to consider its potential accuracy?
Kids are transferring all the time from school to school for mental issues, and I have to agree that there is a part of me that is curious why getting a waiver granted is so high on the list for some of these kids. That being said, I’m also able to understand that football could be a release and a place of safety and comfort for some of these kids (or whatever sport they play), and I’m willing to accept that as well.
Frankly, I find it rather sad that you are so confrontational about this topic while choosing to stand so staunchly on one side of the argument while both sides have a place in being correct. You act as though you are a martyr doing the bidding for all these sick people, and yet you are no better than a politician standing idly by just word-vomiting the musings of their party. The fact is, plenty of student-athletes are abusing mental health to get waivers to play sports immediately upon transfer. For you to stand there on your high horse and bark down at someone else because you just know so much better is really off-putting and reflects poorly on your character as it represents you as an extremely close-minded person.
Kimble made a joke. And it was funny. Mental illness is not a joke. And it’s not funny. The fact that you can’t disassociate the two tells me plenty about you, and that I’ll never be able to have an intelligent conversation with you, open to discussion, because you lack the general understanding and know-how.
in short: Provasic is bull shit, and Kimble knows
100% correct about starting at RT Fugitive....
Also, as someone who played in college and ended up transferring I take issue with guys who at least don’t finish out the season (as old school as Harbaugh is I bet he does too).
Lastly, I could be imagining this but I swear I read Hudson refused to go in during garbage time in one game last year and was seen not celebrating with the team after the State game.