Respect Elderly Fans (Who Deserve Respect)
Being old in and of itself is not a reason to criticize a person or pick a fight, especially a fellow fan.
A person, while quite literally a blue hair should not be treated as a "blue hair" b/c of age. The reality is that some older folks while able to get to the game do not have the physical ability to stand for 3.5 hours, or to participate in the stand/sit cycle a game becomes. Understand that the physical limitation of old age prevent some from standing or screaming as much as younger fans.
They've paid for a "seat" and have the right to sit, you have paid for a "seat" and are choosing to stand. By no means am I saying "Hey down in front!" but please try and be courteous. If there is an old person directly behind you and a space next to you, try and move over when you stand so you don't directly block somebody's view.
This does not excuse older fans who take it upon themselves to become ushers and regulate fan behavior in all matters, however they do have a right to object to someone blocking their view for an entire game. Both fans have a legitimate interest in watching the game and I understand the viewpoint of each, however, it is hard not to be sympathetic to the older fan considering the standing person can see the game while standing or sitting, yet by choosing to stand he blocks the game for others.
Generally, treatment of older fans where I sit is pretty spectacular. I go to the games with my dad, he is 80 years old. Manuevering his way through the row to get to our seats can be quite difficult for him yet most fans extend a hand and help him along. People in front of him sometimes stand up but he never tells them to sit down or shut up and because of this I think people are respectful of his rights in general. This works both ways.
Remember that these blue hairs were once students standing the entire game, they've earned the right to sit. As long as they are reasonable to you, please be reasonable in return. On the other hand if they are dicks about every little thing, all bets are off.
September 22nd, 2009 at 11:44 AM ^
Congrats to your dad for still trekking to The Big House at 80. I'm glad to hear the fans around you show him the respect and deference he deserves.
May you both enjoy many more years going to games together.
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:16 PM ^
about old people, I'm still not going to shop at an open air farmer's market with my back to the road.
edit: -3 for an old people farmers market joke? good lord you people are sensitive.
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:28 PM ^
is ornery
September 22nd, 2009 at 11:46 AM ^
When I get to be a blue hair I hope that people won't be b!tching at me to stand on my two artificial hips for 3.5 hours. It's not like these guys are in the student section and since the Big House isn't tiered it's not like they can really find a way to get the first row in an upper deck (that's my preferred location as, no matter what, you always have an unimpeded view). No excuse for the crotchety old people but I'd certainly hope there's enough respect (and admiration even) for older people who even going out to a game and sitting on benches for 3.5 hours takes a toll on their body.
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:58 PM ^
You're absolutely right! I'm only 20 but I have a surgically implanted rod in my leg and screws in my hip and knee. I know how painful it can be to stand for a long period of time and I can definitely appreciate the sentiments of older Michigan fans who want to be able to sit down and not be obstructed by the people in front of them. It really bothers me when people lash out at "blue hairs" who dont like to stand during the game. whats even worse is people who say things like "if they cant stand then they shouldn't come to the games".
September 22nd, 2009 at 11:47 AM ^
I sat behind, in front of, and next to some blue hairs in sec 18 at the EMU game. Being 6'4" myself, that meant I had to shift a bit to avoid kneeing the person in front. I stood when the folks in front stood. Sat when they sat, trying to be sensitive to those sitting behind. It all worked out. Mutual respect is a good thing.
Part of the problem is alcohol driven. I don't care what or when or how much anyone else drinks. But seeing all the beer pong and two stories of beer in flexible tubing being chugged at 9:30am Sat., there were a bunch of students pretty trashed long before game time. Whatever. Just remember that in the same way being old and rich doesn't mean you can be rude, being young and drunk doesn't entitle someone to be an a-hole either.
September 22nd, 2009 at 11:55 AM ^
My biggest problem is when a 40-something year old yells at me to sit down (I've had this problem mainly in Yost, which is why I'm getting a student season ticket package this year). As far as I'm concerned, if you are physically capable of standing up and sitting down throughout the game, particularly during exciting plays, then you should just do it. Some fans believe that everyone should sit down and be quiet during the entire game (perhaps due to their Charlie Weis-esque exercise program). It's infuriating.
To reiterate, I have no problem with fans who have a legitimate problem standing up and sitting back down over the course of the game. I respect them and am always willing to accommodate them. Fans who have no legitimate reason and are lazy, however, deserve no such respect.
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:21 PM ^
Few if any people complain when someone stands for a critical play. But if you want to stand the entire game, move yourself to the student section.
If one person stands, it has a domino effect of causing 100s-1000s of people to stand. Kids can't see, older fans who have difficulty standing and sitting repeatedly can't see, and shorter people fare far worse when everyone is standing. Have some understanding of what your behavior does to those around you.
And please realize, making noise is not dependent upon standing.
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:37 PM ^
"And please realize, making noise is not dependent upon standing."
This is the more important issue. Everybody focuses on sitting vs standing. But you can yell just as loud sitting. And I think noise is a better indicator of being a "good fan" than sitting vs standing.
September 22nd, 2009 at 3:17 PM ^
"Few if any people complain when someone stands for a critical play. But if you want to stand the entire game, move yourself to the student section."
Bull. I get that from 40 year old women all the time! And last time i checked, the student section was for, well, only students.
"if one person stands, it has a domino effect of causing 100s-1000s of people to stand. Kids can't see, older fans who have difficulty standing and sitting repeatedly can't see, and shorter people fare far worse when everyone is standing. Have some understanding of what your behavior does to those around you."
So what? when i was little i stood on the benches and i could see find and i didn't even care!
"And please realize, making noise is not dependent upon standing."
Yeah, you say that, but not many people do it. How many people to do see sitting down and yelling? At lsu, penn state, etc. they stand and yell until their team goes back on offense. and you know what? lsu has won 19 of their last 20 games at home. this isn't about making noise just for the hell of it, it's about trying to create a difficult atmosphere. why are so many people against that?
September 22nd, 2009 at 4:30 PM ^
so you really can't see how selfish your attitude is?
September 22nd, 2009 at 4:40 PM ^
me wanting to help the team is selfish? 40 year olds who come and just sit and tell others to sit down and shut up isn't selfish?
September 22nd, 2009 at 5:16 PM ^
the ones that just sit there and not make any noise are the most selfish ones there! it doesn't make them any less of fans, but it does make them selfish.
September 22nd, 2009 at 9:14 PM ^
The fans that sit in the stands and enjoy the game in a way of their own choosing (relatively quietly) are selfish.
That is really your position?
September 22nd, 2009 at 11:43 PM ^
Depends on what he is talking about.
Is it selfish to other fans? In a way, yes, though I am hardly of the position that a fan ten rows up is impacted by one person standing. That being said, the person behind said standing person almost certainly is. Case by case situation as well, etc.
As for it being selfish in other regards...yes, it is selfish if you believe, as a fan, you have something to give to the team. If you are merely a spectator, as involved as you would be at home at the stadium and feel that you do not need to make the game a "home" game, then no you are not selfish. But if you understand that home fans make a home game, not the stadium itself, then yes, you are being selfish if you don't walk out of there without a voice.
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:00 PM ^
I beleive I have been a part of the "it goes both ways" thing. I have been in what I would call less-that-energetic sections from time to time. I still stand and cheer, but usually try to check myself so as to not go "overboard" relative to the group around me. A quick glance around usually gives me the indication. I, luckily, have not been subjected to the "down if front" call yet.
Maybe we could all share what sections we've been in that were more energetic, or more tame. This would help random ticket buyers (like myself) to choose appropriate sections, sort of.
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:12 PM ^
There's a fine line to be walked in terms of being an enthusiasic fan but at the same time not taking the fun of the game away from people like your dad. Good for him for still going to games.
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:24 PM ^
The price of a ticket gives you the right to sit or stand as you please. It doesn't give others the right to tell you to do either: at least not at a football game. Criticizing someone simply for being old is wrong, but so is thinking that you have the right to expect everyone in front of you to sit.
I have had chronic, intermittent foot and back problems for years. I have gone to some games where it hurt to stand, but I didn't care. All sports, but especially football, seem to give one the "ability" to flood his or her body with epinepherine and beta-endorphins at the same time, giving a burst of energy and temporarily blocking most pain.
If I go to a game and hurt, I sit down while nothing's happening. The clock is only live for sixty minutes out of the three hours the game is underway, and the actual playing time is probably closer to twenty minutes. If the day comes that I can't stand for twenty minutes, I will either be in the wheelchair section or I will watch on TV.
But I will never, never expect the people in front of me to sit. In return, I expect not to be yelled at by those behind me when I stand so that I can see over the people in front of me.
Is that too much to ask?
September 22nd, 2009 at 7:08 PM ^
"it's a matter of liberty" . . . what a load of crap!
No it's a matter of you being selfish, and inconsiderate of your fellow fans.
"The price of a ticket gives you the right to sit or stand as you please. It doesn't give others the right to tell you to do either: at least not at a football game."
The price of the ticket gives you that huh?
Put the crack pipe down.
In case you haven't noticed, the football stadium, IS FULL OF BLEACHERS! . . . for sitting on.
The ushers will be happy to remind you about this in case you decide to make an in-game ass of yourself by NEVER sitting down.
Look if you're really talking about just getting up for each play, then my hats off to you Tater and I'm not trying to direct this at you, but we've had 3 or 4 topics about this in a week, and most seem to want to defend standing for 3 hours, not the more reasonable 20-60 minutes for plays that you mention. The sense of entitlement on these boards is staggering.
Look, I want Michigan Stadium to be a loud, intimidating place for opponents to play. I want to be informed, active, loud and have fun at every game I attend.
That includes sitting for some parts of the game, constantly cheering, and rising with the crowd in anticipation of a good play. It also includes standing for entire important defensive stands and offensive drives. But when the action slows a bit and someone behind ASKS for you to sit (and usually it's implied that you pass the request forward) try to be courteous human.
Standing the whole game and hating on everyone that isn't as big of a superfan as you just makes you look like you've got an extra Y chromosome.
September 22nd, 2009 at 7:24 PM ^
no one wants to stand for the entire game! we just want people to stand when michigan is on defense! that is what you are supposed to do! stand, yell, clap, jump up and down, only when the opposing team is on defense. i don't care how quiet you wanna be when michigan is on offense, just do the team a favor and help out a little.
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:44 PM ^
I think that it is great for your 80 year old dad to go to the game. Good for him but there comes a time when you have to say enough is enough.
Watching some of these old people who can barely walk hobble up and down the steps at Michigan Stadium is a bit much and eventually maybe the kids in these circumstances should tell their parents/grandparents/great grandparents that it's time to stop going to the games and to watch it at home.
This isn't to say that if you want wheelchair seating/are disabled that you don't have a right to be there because you do everyone does. But to me it seems like a liability for all of these geriatric old people to walk down 50+ stairs.
You can think that this is "dick" of me but I would never ask my 80 year old grandfather to go a game because I know that his body cannot handle it.
With all of this being said I would happily endorse a section for all elderly fans who are senior citizens who want to sit and still partake in the Michigan Stadium experience. Maybe segregation is the answer?
September 22nd, 2009 at 1:31 PM ^
You said:
I would happily endorse a section for all elderly fans who are senior citizens who want to sit and still partake in the Michigan Stadium experience. Maybe segregation is the answer?
I think:
It's called "everyplace but the student section."
I'm puzzled by the posters who seem to be current students (and in the student section) who object to the other sections doing things differently. What's the big whoop? You stand up. Others sit down. Everybody's happy.
September 22nd, 2009 at 1:38 PM ^
and therefore cannot sit in the student section.
And no everyone is not happy. There are many fans who are not young 20 something's who would like to give a shit about the game and stand and yell and not have some old person yelling at them.
The problem is that it is the culture at Michigan that this is acceptable and until that culture changes the stadium will stay the same. Which is unfortunate.
September 22nd, 2009 at 2:50 PM ^
...when I suggested to guys like you, that you work up some kind of business-plan kind of thing for the Athletic Department about areas where standing will be officially 'tolerated' as it is in the Student Sections.
But you've got to put yourself in the place of Bill Martin, Joe Parker and Marty Bodnar. They'd be nuts if they were to declare the whole stadium a kind of open-season all-standing zone. They'd have kids standing on bleacher benches. And falling. They'd have complaints from people who can't stand. They just can't do it, and nobody should expect them to.
At the same time, if you've ever spoken with them, as I have, they are nearly as concerned with a noisy, hospitable-home-field advantage, as they are about the safety and comfort of their season-ticket holders. They want everybody to have a good time.
Look, there are already demarcations among season tickets for their respective Preferred Seating Donation levels. Why not try to figure out if you can find an area, say above Row 80 somewhere, where you can flex your leg muscles as well as your lungs? That way, you can show your support with an appropriate PSD in addition to your yelling.
September 22nd, 2009 at 3:26 PM ^
be the furthest from the field? That seems counter-intuitive. I agree with your points that you don't want to alienate fans but the culture at Michigan Stadium has to change.
I'd be all for having the nearby adjacent sections to the student section be "standing is permitted for the whole game" sections.
September 22nd, 2009 at 3:40 PM ^
Or re-enroll and get more student tickets, or whatever else you want to do.
Just please don't start standing up in some Row 4 seats that you bought from a scalper, with the result that Rows 5,6,7,8,9,10...99 have to stand up behind you.
Get it? It's not that complicated.
What you seem to want, is something that the guys who have the responsibility for operating the Michigan football program cannot sanction.
And when you and others say that they want a "change in culture," I have to wonder; "A change to what/whose culture?" As I've written elsewhere, the way I see it, the "Stand-up the whole game culture" is a Notre Dame thing, and I DO NOT want to do ANYTHING the way that those jackasses do them.
September 22nd, 2009 at 10:52 PM ^
how exactly does standing up make them jack asses? and the "stand up the whole game culture" is florida, ohio state, penn state, alabama, texas, notre dame, lsu, etc, all stadiums that are hard to play in. most schools do it, it's the right thing to do, do it.
September 22nd, 2009 at 5:44 PM ^
Here is the part I don't understand yet. I don't ask to be a jerk, I ask because I could use the clarification:
1) Why exactly do you feel that the culture has to change? (Don't say: because enthuasiastic fans help win games by standing. Why? Because the blue hairs have been sitting down since the beginning of time, including the national champaionship years).
2) Why exactly do you feel that the failure of the crowd to stand up AND STAY standing up has an impact on the outcome of the game (Don't say: because enthuasiastic fans who stand help win games. Why? Because there ARE places where everybody stands all the time, and there are places where NOBODY stands all the time, and all those kinds of places sometimes have great records.)
September 22nd, 2009 at 5:51 PM ^
get players and recruits excited. if they wanted people sitting on their hands and politely clapping when a play was made, they'd be on golf scholarships.
September 22nd, 2009 at 6:57 PM ^
Because teams such as appalachain state and toledo have beaten us in our home stadium because most of our crowd it soft! would you rather have michigan stadium known as the quietest 100,000 fans around that are so nice to opposing fans, or some of the loudest 100,000 fans around and visiting teams hate to come there? and if you picked the first one, get the hell out of the big house.
times have changed since that last national championship. get with it, or get out.
September 23rd, 2009 at 8:18 AM ^
"Because teams such as appalachain state and toledo have beaten us in our home stadium because most of our crowd it soft! would you rather have michigan stadium known as the quietest 100,000 fans around that are so nice to opposing fans, or some of the loudest 100,000 fans around and visiting teams hate to come there? and if you picked the first one, get the hell out of the big house.
times have changed since that last national championship. get with it, or get out."
This just might have been one of the most idiotic posts I have ever read. Appalachian State and Toledo did not win because of the fans.
They lost because our team got out played and out coached.
How long have you been a season ticket holder going to every home game? Where do you work in the Athletic Department? Where exactly do you get the ability to tell people to stand up or stop going to games?
I do hope you aren't wishing we have a fan culture like OSU..
September 23rd, 2009 at 3:18 PM ^
I never said they lost because of the fans! but think about it, don't you think a small school in north carolina should be scared to come into the biggest stadium in the country and play before 110,000 screaming fans? Except, the fans weren't screaming, app state got comfortable, and michigan got beat. If the fans yelled and the qb couldn't hear the signals and gets rattled on that last drive, it could have had a huge effect on the outcome. then when app state had to go play in death valley a year later, they were scared out of their wits, because the stadium is loud, and they couldn't get comfortable. that is what needs to happen in michigan stadium.
September 22nd, 2009 at 3:04 PM ^
....you are in the minority. Which is fine, everyone's entitled to their preference.
But as long as you are in a section where people don't stand the whole time, your insistence that standing up is some kinda MORAL issue is going to a) fall on deaf ears and b) offend lots of honorable, enthusiastic, and noisy fans, who have been H E and N even longer than you.
The idea seems to be that you are royally pissed when told what to do....well sure, but really everyone feels that way - even the bluehairs. And there are more of them than there are of you. So it starts to sound like just trying to impose your will on a group of people who don't see things the same way you do. It is the pot calling the kettle black.
Again, I got no problem at all with you wanting to stand, only with insisting that everyone else do so too. So, I'm with that guy who said "find a place where you can stand the whole time" - get them to put you in Row 96. I'm up near there, I yell loud, you would not be dissatisfied with the volume anywhere near ME. I sit down when I feel like it, I stand when cool stuff happens, and I always ALWAYS stand when a player motions us up.
Then everybody can be happy.
September 22nd, 2009 at 3:22 PM ^
My post on the subject was pretty much this:
Don't be a douche
But with that said I cannot stand in the stadium because the old bastards get mad at me and after conversing with many people on this board I am obviously not the only one and frankly here I am in the majority not the minority and you sir are in the minority.
I'm not asking everyone to stand the whole game because frankly unless a big play happens on offense/ST you should only stand for Defense.
The problem is that it is a cultural problem. It is the same thing as fraternities hazing members. When you first went through it you thought "man this is bs this sucks" but when the shoe is on the other foot and you get to just watch you think "well I had to do it so they have to too".
The same can be said of people in the stadium. It's an ingrained culture of "we have to be quiet or we will get a penalty" and "we have to be overly nice to our opposing fans" etc etc. Which I love that but we should also be able to be a bit rowdier and provide more of a HFA.
September 22nd, 2009 at 5:47 PM ^
I do think you are at least the only one that doesn't appreciate the irony of your argument.
September 22nd, 2009 at 12:49 PM ^
and regulary see orders for knee replacements, arthritis, dementia etc. I'm not one to question the Lord but he reins in our abilities as we get older- you youngin's better take note!- and that's the plan he has for all of us, unless something happens earlier. I say we treat our elders with respect; besides, I don't want some young buck pushing me down when I'm a gray hair and breaking me bones.
September 22nd, 2009 at 1:06 PM ^
I think for the most part people do respect the elders. Yes they have paid a ticket which does give them admission to the stadium and a seat on the stated location, however it doesnt give them the right to tell other fans what to do.
I think there's a difference between someone standing and cheering for Michigan and someone just straight up being a jackass.
I for one will be seated during timeouts, between plays and such but when the games getting good or the team needs us...I'll be there cheering them on. I paid just as much as the guy 10 rows behind me and if he wants me to sit...well I'm sorry I'm not going to.
September 22nd, 2009 at 4:28 PM ^
I agree completely about the standing and cheering versus being a "jackass".
Having my season tickets in a "sitting" section, it does frustrate me at time when everyone around me is sitting. But I have noticed that generally when there is a 3rd down, the defense needs a stop etc. People do stand up and cheer.
Now, when Michigan is blowing out someone a la EMU, I dont think people should be screaming "stand up" at some old couple when the score is 31-17 or whatever.
September 22nd, 2009 at 4:44 PM ^
I have been a long time Michigan Fan and have been proudly wearing blue and maze for years. This past Saturday was my first ever visit to the Big House. I was overjoyed with excitement as I entered the stadium to find my seat: sec 18 row 25 seat 14. It was like holding the golden ticket... I finally get to see the best team in the world play live.
The game starts and I am surrounded by Michigan fans who are standing up and cheering.. I stand up and join in on the awesome experience.. until 2 stadium officers come down and told me personally to take a seat. I was surrounded by cheering fans and I had to take a seat?? I was completely embarrassed by the situation. I could understand taking care of someone who was being unruly, drunk, or not watch their language, but none of that happened. I don't understand why and the experience embarrassed me in front of friends and family. I was singled out for cheering. I am suppose to be attending a couple more games in the following month, but after the experience, I'm not sure I want to go. It wasn't a proud day to be a Michigan fan.
Disappointed,
ST
September 23rd, 2009 at 12:07 AM ^
Here's the way I look at it.
We have a culture in the stadium. The students stand. The other sections stand at times, specifically when there are big plays to be had on defense. In a way, it looks like a slowly rising wave from afar. For the most part, however, a majority of fans in the stadium do not stand for most of the game.
This is understandable for several reasons. Many fans outside of the student section do not wish to stand the entire game. Or they are not capable of doing so based on a variety of factors. Some of these fans were never students and did not have the experience of standing for the entire game. This is not a knock on said fans. Finally, many fans sit because those around them sit. Common courtesy plays a major role in sitting.
This is a culture. This is what is accepted. This is not necessarily a good thing. While sitting is not inherently evil and standing is not the spawn of Satan, the noise level differences between the two needs to be clarified. Yes, you can sit and yell. If that is the chosen path, then we need to encourage that. But let's not kid ourselves. As it is, yelling while sitting does not happen as often as yelling while standing.
This is something that can be improved. We have a giant stadium. We need to use it.