MadGatter

November 23rd, 2021 at 1:12 PM ^

I would rather have a Frames Janklin led team (who to his credit occasionally puts together a very good team) than a Matt Rhule led Penn State. 

I know he's still coaching the Panthers, but if Franklin left I personally could see Penn state making the push and landing him

Joined: 03/29/2020

MGoPoints: 8297

MGoStrength

November 23rd, 2021 at 1:15 PM ^

If PSU had latched onto some guy that could actually coach a good game, they'd become a really tough out in a big hurry.

I find it odd that some UM fans fear things like this at other schools while at the same time fear hiring anyone new at UM.  I don't get it.

Joined: 07/29/2010

MGoPoints: 20002

MGoStrength

November 23rd, 2021 at 1:41 PM ^

I don't. RR and Hoke tells us things can get worse. 

I'm not saying they can't.  But, Bo was new at one point too.  I just don't understand expecting the worst for UM while fearing the best at other places.  Either could happen at either place.

Joined: 07/29/2010

MGoPoints: 20002

UMfan21

November 23rd, 2021 at 1:51 PM ^

Completely true and I agree.  I think the bias is that we have seen the UofM Athletic Department make some pretty bad hires in our lifetimes (Ellerbe, Amaker, RichRod, Hoke, etc).  And on top of that we have this self-destructive fan/alumni base who seems to want "Michigan Men" and may go so far as to undermine hires they do not support (Rich Rod).  This seems to make UofM more toxic and higher risk when undergoing coaching changes particularly in football. Maybe other programs have the same kinds of battles behind the scenes, I don't follow other programs close enough to know.

Then on top of all this you layer our academic standards and the ethical standards we pride ourselves on...we aren't going to hire a guy with a questionable past for the sake of winning.  That also eliminates some top candidates.  An Urban Meyer or Brian Kelly wouldn't be interviewed here today with their pasts, despite their successes.

You point to Bo as an example, but that's stretching back to 1969 for a success story which kind of supports that viewpoint ironically. Beilein/Howard are really the only true success stories for most of our lifetimes.  Beilein at the time when we literally could not get much worse, and we kind of lucked into it given other candidates at the time who seemed equally good, but flamed out at other schools.  Howard was a no-brainer, but Harbaugh is the closest equivalent to Howard in terms of past alumni who played pro at a high level and coached in the Pros. If we get rid of Harbaugh there is not another "Juwan Howard" type guy out there.

Joined: 09/28/2009

MGoPoints: 51231

saveferris

November 23rd, 2021 at 3:09 PM ^

That's a bit of revisionist history there.  When we hired Howard, the consensus was more along the lines of, "that's probably the best we could've done under the circumstances", but nobody was predicting that he would quickly have Michigan as Top 5 in recruiting and having the team almost immediately competing for championships.

Joined: 07/02/2009

MGoPoints: 24841

1VaBlue1

November 23rd, 2021 at 2:35 PM ^

As far as I'm concerned, you don't replace a coach if you think there's a chance he can get the job done.  Defining 'job' is a key part here!  Bo Pelini was winning 9-10 games/year regularly - but he wasn't winning league titles or championships.  Replacing him has cost Nebraska dearly.

On the flip side of that, Earl Bruce and John Cooper won a lot of games at OSU - but they weren't winning Big Ten titles and national championships.  Cooper replaced Bruce, and Sweater Vest replaced Cooper.  You know how that story goes...

My point?  There comes a time when the AD has a question to answer: is it time to replace coach for better results?  If the answer is yes, you go out and find the best guy you can identify for the job.  And then you pray it doesn't work out like Nebraska...

Joined: 01/31/2016

MGoPoints: 127430

Newton Gimmick

November 23rd, 2021 at 2:23 PM ^

Or Florida, USC, Florida St, Miami, Tennessee ... 

Our selection bias is to look at situations better than ours, even if they are only better for one season or one game.  That's partly why those programs stay stuck in self-defeating cycles.  Texas and Nebraska weren't as good as Oklahoma.  Florida and Tennessee can't keep up with Georgia and Alabama.  Florida St and Miami are jealous of Clemson.  And USC can't even keep up with Utah and Oregon.  

College football in the 21st century is the story of bluebloods constantly undergoing facelifts in order to recapture their glory days, and most just become an ugly, mangled mess.

Joined: 05/06/2015

MGoPoints: 33792

Newton Gimmick

November 23rd, 2021 at 2:03 PM ^

If PSU had latched onto some guy that could actually coach a good game, they'd become a really tough out in a big hurry.

I find it odd that some UM fans fear things like this at other schools while at the same time fear hiring anyone new at UM.  I don't get it.

For me it's not necessarily about "new" vs incumbent.  It's, "who are we likely to get."  E.g., one of if not the best realistic candidate right now for a lot of schools is Luke Fickell.  He would be an awkward fit at best here.  But he would be a great fit at Penn State and would likely take that job.  On balance I'd rather have Franklin there than Fickell.  But I'd rather have Harbaugh than anyone who would realistically replace him.

Joined: 05/06/2015

MGoPoints: 33792

saveferris

November 23rd, 2021 at 3:21 PM ^

By the same token, Harbaugh has this team at 10-1 and in competition for the B1G Championship.  I don't understand the sentiment of some around here wanting us to chuck that on the off-chance that we can bring in a guy that will take us the extra 10% forward when NOBODY else in the conference has managed that, allowing them to compete against the Buckeyes either.

What would another coach be able to come in and do in the current CFP climate that would allow Michigan to suddenly flip the script on OSU?

Joined: 07/02/2009

MGoPoints: 24841

njvictor

November 23rd, 2021 at 3:30 PM ^

It's like an abusive relationship.

Franklin was a good guy for a bit, but now he's kinda an asshole and treats her poorly. Every once in while another girl will think he's cute and flirt with him and he'll threaten to leave her unless she treats him better, despite him not being all that great recently. She eventually complies and the cycle continues

Joined: 07/20/2017

MGoPoints: 65406

Wolverine91

November 23rd, 2021 at 1:15 PM ^

It’s funny, last time we heard “coach X to get extension” that team ended up losing their next game..

Joined: 01/12/2014

MGoPoints: 10414

The Homie J

November 23rd, 2021 at 3:07 PM ^

Yeah, it's gonna be nuts.  The funny part is all these high profile candidates that I think end up staying where they're at despite the mega jobs that are out there. Tucker, Franklin, Cristobal, Fickell and Jimbo Fisher have been thrown around as the top contenders for several of these positions, but none appear likely to move.

So far, the likeliest moves appear to be: Billy Napier (Louisana) to Florida, Lane Kiffin (Ole Miss) to Miami, Justin Wilcox (Cal) to Washington, and Sonny Dykes (SMU) to TCU.

I have no freaking clue who's taking the LSU and USC jobs.  I can't even believe that somebody hasn't committed to the USC gig yet, given that it has to be the easiest top contender program to take over.  I do see LSU struggling as nobody wants that pressure (following up a coach who was fired less than 2 years after a Natty).

Joined: 01/11/2018

MGoPoints: 17408