Reason No. 1597 I Want RichRod Around
I was writing (in a not very good article) about how Rodriguez had to invent/innovate a purpose and place for our above-average tight ends, whether it was because of landing Kevin Koger and promising to play him on offense in 2008, or just because we have good tight ends who can catch (sometimes).
It made me realize again why I want Rodriguez to succeed. The man is rewriting how college football is played with each new formation (the rise of the H-back in 2009) and innovation he throws on the field. It's been tempered in our case because he has to find a base first, but he's really an interesting and innovative mind to have on our side should he remain. I'm excited to see how our offense evolves over the course of this season—how he can get Gallon and TRob and Koger, and, shoot, Denard, more involved.
One of the strengths of his coaching resume is his ability to reinvent the attack, which is never something you could say about Lloyd, with all due respect to the man (and he probably wouldn't deny it).
P.S. I do not mean this as an attack against Lloyd, to anticipate the accusation. But I took someone's advice and tracked down the games on Hulu and watched our comeback against Minnesota in 2003, and it was funny how even the announcers knew that at the time we had no mid-range passing game. It was either screens or bombs—until the second half, of course ;).
I hope we keep Rod no matter what the final record ends as this year. With all the raw talent of the pure athletes we still have as underclassmen, 2011 and beyond I believe will be an incredible time period for Michigan Football.
Nice avatar! No but seriously I fully agree with what your saying! We have such a young raw team, that by next year the experience is really going to payoff.
One thing you notice as well, when Tom interviews a recruit they always say how they have a better understanding of the direction of the coaching staff/program. Looks like the staff address quite a few questions from the recruits regarding the future of the staff. It seems to me like its a much bigger deal in the media regarding RR future than it is in house. Obviously another 5 win season won't cut it, but I think RR, DB, etc... see the potential of this team and where its headed.
I can remember when it was a much bigger deal on whether Lloyd should continue as coach or not in the media, but not in house. Of course that all ended with a National Championship. Hopefully this will too ...
Nicely put. I tracked down the 2003 recruiting class and saw that that was why we were in close Big Ten contention for two years (from 06-07). It's loaded. same as our 2009 class. RichRod really is a great recruiter to do such a thing off a 3-9 record.
I hope we keep Rod no matter what the final record ends as this year.So if he finishes 0-12 you'll still want him around? I find that very hard to believe. Also I feel like RR is given far too much leeway. His job is to win football games, that's all he has to do and up until this point he hasn't done a very good job of it. DISCLAIMER: Rich Rod has my support, I am not of the FIRE RICH ROD brigade.
Whatever brigade you are in, I want in. That is exactly where I am on RR. I fully support him, think that he has the potential to do great things, but also believe that to date - even with the deficiencies in the talent pool - he has not done a good job.
I want the same confidence on the defensive side of the ball that I have for RR's offense. That being said anything 6-6 or better I just dont see the logic of blowing it up to run a pro-set or thinking there is a better spread guy then RR.
I agree totally, there would have to be a monumental meltdown or new rules violations for RR to be fired. Othewise M would be set back another two to three years.
He can innovate all he wants - as long as doing so wins us games. At the end of the day, or season, that's really all that matters. He might be the Tesla of football, but he has to win some games for it to amount to anything positive (rather than negative, if you get my pun).
that's funny.
So who's the Edison of football?
Paterno? But no, RR never worked for JoePa.
Joe Pa can't be the Edison of football; he is already the Methuselah of football.
What about this - The relationship between Tesla and Edison has been called the "War of Currents" - Tesla's AC and Edison's DC. But it really was a war between systems and their institutions - Tesla was an institution, as was Edison. The same can be said of RichRod's system - it is an institution here at Michigan, struggling for superiority. It is an institution at war with the past football institution here at Michigan. Thus, the Michigan Football institution pre-RR is Edison. I am not saying Lloyd is analogous to Edison, but rather the institution he left behind is analogous to the Edison Institution: it works against RR's system - one lagging, waning institution fighting a new incumbent institution.
Or maybe I am over-thingking this analogy....I think so.
neither DC nor AC was an established standard; the "war" was to see which system would gain widespread adoption as this nation was wired for electricity. Lloyd's system was clearly a well established institution, so the analogy breaks down a bit.
I interpreted your reference to Tesla as a reference to a brilliant theoretician, one whose ideas typically lead to either stupendous success or stupendous failure. Tesla also had his problems with the media.
For myself, I side with the OP, and want to see RR given time to make his system work at Michigan.
everywhere a sign...
Excellent Motor City-Automotive Industry analogy. Props.
Really interested in how this relates to reasons 1596 and 1598.
... turn into nebraska from a few years ago, when they fired solich and brought in callahan and the west coast offense, only to dump him a few years later and start the rebuilding again from square one.
So you were in favor of keeping Callahan around until he got results because his west coast offense was so unique? We won't be set back at all in the event Rodriguez is fired if the kids we've recruited are as good as we all say they are, they're not spread-drones, they're football players.
... a nebraska fan, im just saying i wouldn't want to start a rebuild again, i would guess it's easier to switch from a spread to a pro-style than pro style to spread, but im a cubs fan so im always optimistic that we can win every year, that's why i cant wait until the opener to show everyone what we can do.
There aren't just two forms of offense in college football. This notion (that many here subscribe to) that we are either RR-spread or Carresque pro-style is flawed.
The OP discusses the role of the tight ends, and RR's use thereof. That is adapting, if I may, to the "Carr" style. It's my humble opinion that if RR did more adapting, his first two years would not have been so brutal. Anyway...our bread-and-butter play (under Carr) sent the TE on a crossing route mirrored by the WR on a deep cross. It was unstoppable. If RR wants to use the TE more, I'm all for it. I'm just not for the notion that there exist only two offensive styles.
Getting specific with generalizations is rather pointless. No amount of offensive adaptation could have fixed 08, and the offense was good enough last year.
"Getting specific with generalizations is rather pointless."
Are you sure your last name isn't Berra?
C'mon...seriously? You think our offense was as good as possible in 08? No way. Granted, I know your next statement will be that the "cupboard was bare", but RR does have some responsibility for that. He thought he'd get Pryor so he ignored Mallet and let him split. That was a choice he made, but he made that choice. Anyway, I'm not trying to get into the "bare cupboard" debate, but Carr would have won a lot more than 3 games in 08.
Hoping that RR will succeed (even for those of us who aren't thrilled with him) doesn't mean that we have to pretend that he did better than anyone else could have in 08 (or 09 for that matter). He thought he could come into the BigTen and run shit like he did in the Big East. It didn't work. Now, we'll see how he adapts. I'm hoping it works well, as I don't want to wait another minute for a return to Michigan football.
Adaptation implies melding X components of the previous offense into the new offense, more of that wouldn't have fixed the problem of not being able to do anything correctly. Personel decisions are irrelevant to this conversation. Whether or not he would did as well as anyone else would have (and how we view that question) is also irrelevant. I don't know what the implications of "He thought he could come into the BigTen and run shit" are, but I'm guessing that wasn't the case.
When you make a blanket statement like:
No amount of offensive adaptation could have fixed 08, and the offense was good enough last year.
...You're saying that 08 was going to suck no matter what and I'm not sure what excuse you're giving for 09, but I'm sure you've got a handful ready. You continue:
Personel decisions are irrelevant to this conversation.
Say what??? Personnel decisions are 100% relevant to this discussion. We are, after all, talking about his use of...wait for it...wait for it...personnel (like TE's). RR chose not to "meld" Ryan Mallet into his offense. Part of the reason 08 was so bad is because RR did not adapt. You'll notice that he is now (smartly) increasing player size...an adaptation, if you will, to Big Ten football. Having hope for the future doesn't mean you have to ignore the reality of the past.
I'm not going to continue arguing with you if you're going to keep changing the topic. I'm not sure when "No amount of ADAPTATION" became "No matter what." Say what? Imagined personel decisions are irrelevant to our conversation that began about offensive adaptation benefiting the team the past two years? Correct.
I love the "RichRod chose not to do anything with Ryan Mallet because he was having Pryor's lovechild" argument. It is not only proven wrong but it sounds ridiculous. I am sure RichRod looked at all of our options, even with the possibility of getting Pryor and him telling us numerous times that he likes to have 4 or 5 QBs on the roster, and said, "Mallet...fuck him, I am going to ignore him and have Threet/Sheridan as my backup to Pryor." Your assumptions are not only wrong but stupid. Anyone who tells you RichRod ran out Mallet and Boren is on the same Mlive/freep mindset as the no family values folks.
"... so he ignored Mallet and let him split."
Sorry -- I think you're at "Bleacher Report" level with that assertion. Can you back it up?
Do you really think a loose cannon like Mallet would keep quiet if RichRod pushed him out the door? I think it's far more likely that they parted ways politely. It appears that Mallet fled to a more (overall) welcoming environment and RichRod accepted that.
That's the conventional wisdom, anyway.
- - -
"Carr would have won a lot more than 3 games in 08."
How many without Mallet?
This...
but RR does have some responsibility for that. He thought he'd get Pryor so he ignored Mallet and let him split. That was a choice he made, but he made that choice.
...is historically inaccurate. If you followed the goings on of the team in late 2007, it was clear that Mallett was not on board with what the remainder of the team was doing.
Don't just say, "Carr would have won a lot more than 3 games in 08." Demonstrate. Tell us how. Then, as you do, remember how 2007 began. Third, quit.
Well...I look at Carr's past record, where he never had a losing season and always went to bowl games. I extend that forward to make the extremely reasonable inference that he would have won a lot more than 3 games.
Was the bare cupboard RR's fault? Nice to know he just "ignored" Mallett, because he thought Pryor was in the bag. You must have some good sources...
Hold on a sec...maybe you don't remember, but I'm the same guy who has accurately predicted multiple football commitment dates, accurately predicted the opening of certain bball scholarships, accurately stated the date Manny signed with an agent weeks before it was public knowledge (and was blasted for daring to claim he had done so), etc. Yes. I do have good sources.
So, I'll just say that the feeling was that Pryor would be coming to A2. If you don't believe anything I'm saying, that's perfectly understandable. I have no issue with that...just trying to share info with other Michigan fans. Sometimes, a coach has to work to keep important players on a team. I'm not aware of anyone saying that RR tried to keep Mallet in a manner like Beilein did in having to work to keep star players like Manny and DeShawn (even though they didn't perfectly fit his system). RR may (we all hope) turn into a great, winning Michigan coach, but that doesn't mean he hasn't made mistakes along the way.
The only thing that is worse than a poster claiming that RR ignored or in one way or another ran off Mallett is the 50 posters who must reply to that poster to tell him he is wrong.
Why are you all still having this argument? Why even respond? Why do you all feel you have to put your 2 cents in? Get in on the negbang and move on. Stop clouding up a thread or the board rehashing these stupid arguments.
Can you accurately predict tonight's winning lottery numbers for me?
Daily 4: 3 9 5 7
Powerball: 19 50 21 5 42 *12
Why would you not be in favor of that? Despite the we-are-screwed-for-at-least-three-years-if-we-fire-RR meme that is constantly bleated out, it IS possible for a good coach to win quickly with another coaches' players.
It only took (at most) two years for Carroll, Stoops, Tressel, Saban, Meyer, Kelly, et. al to get their respective programs to elite level when they took over.
So, if it took two years for all of those coaches, but USC, OU, OSU, Bama, Florida, and ND didn't experience the mass exodus that Michigan did - how long should it take RR?
In my opinion that answer is 4 years - enough time to get all of his players in. That being said, I think anything less than a winning record this year and he doesn't get a fourth year. Not my vote or anything, just what I think will happen.
The next John Blake?
Are we going to hire the next Urban Meyer or the next Ron Zook?
And which one of those coaches would you actually want?
Carroll- NCAA violations.
Stoops- you can bring much different players to OU than you can to Michigan.
Tressel-?
Saban- Seriously. Oversign like he does, and you can turn a program around in 2 months.
Meyer- you want 30 arrests like he's had? Also, an incredibly dishonest person.
Kelly- Okay, I'd take him. Actually wanted him when Carr retired. But again, recruiting players to Cincinnati (juco, etc) is a lot different than Michigan.
Et al- Haven't heard of him.
I am pretty sure Callahan's OC stuck with the new coaching staff at Nebraska. The Defense is what was rebuilt at Nebraska. But I agree that I wouldn't want a drastically different Offense put in place if things turn bad this year. What would really be bad if a change is made, is that I really think 2011 in going to be an amazing year for Rich Rod and Michigan, if Rich Rod is allowed to stay.
Well, it wasn't just the offense when it came to Callahan. He came in and, quite literally, took a flamethrower to that program. Severely curtailed their walkon program. Stonewalled alumni. Did quite everything he possibly could to make sure that transition was as drastic and "my way or the highway" as possible. Nebraska sure didn't like his results on the field, but there was just as much vitriol about what he was doing to set that up. Thus, short tenure.
With the exception of curtailing the walkon program (which RR expanded), your comment is ironic in that it really captures a lot of people's feelings about how RR went about things upon taking over at Michigan. In any event, we all probably agree that his tenure length will not be dictated by his attitude, but instead by his record.
I believe the correct verbiage is "aboverage" tight ends.
a change in defensive cordinator if the defense is as weak as i fear. Please pan out corners!
I highly doubt you will see a new DC next year. Gerg had a pretty good year last year considering he was forced to start two walkons at one point and the lack of depth/skill at DB. I would expect a decent-to-good, but not great year on defense.
If I remember correctly, RR was starting see that Koger was a great talent and wanted (needed) to get him on the field, and because of that talked with several people from Oklahoma, who run a different spread, but utilize their TEs very well.
I'm not saying RR isn't innovative, he's done a lot in the spread offense, and while he may not have invented H-back in a spread formation (obviously he didn't invent the H-back as a position), one of the most important things a coach can do is view the landscape around them and understand what others are doing. The more RR understands other offenses, and how they utilize similar talent, the better coach he will be, and the more innovative he can be. I think RR is still using what he learned from the Oklahoma coaches and figuring out how to utilize that information in the offense he wants to run. Either way, we all hope he's successful.
I also seen he met up with Oklahoma's head coach and/or offensive coordinator (it was to long ago so I am not for sure who it was), but the meeting was definitely to discuss how to incorporate more passing into his system. I think with the raw athleticism and speed he is bringing in with his recruiting classes our offense will be about as good as any recent memory in the next year or two. I can not wait until football season. I love Summer but since it consists of nothing but working for me Fall is starting to gain some heavy ground. Go Blue!
I'd like to read your entire list.