Questions about Jim Leavitt
Several posters in the MGoFish thread have speculated that our next DC could be Jim Leavitt. Having not really followed USF at all, I know virtually nothing about him other than the unfortunate "incident" that led to his departure. So, my question for those more knowledgeable (Magnus, Alum96, Space Coyote, etc.) is this: putting aside his incident, which is pretty well discussed all over the web, what is the story with Leavitt? Is he considered a good talent developer? Schemer? Recruiter (which I think is critical for a DC)?
Thanks for any info.
December 15th, 2015 at 12:00 PM ^
woody does not agree.
December 15th, 2015 at 12:16 PM ^
two are apples and oranges. They cannot be compared in terms of severity as to do so requires knowledge of the particulars of any given DUI and the outcome ahead of time. The mens rea is also quite different in the two acts. To compare them and believe you have reached the "correct" conclusion is ridiculous.
December 15th, 2015 at 12:20 PM ^
dude, relax. it was a joke.
I'm a lawyer, I obviously know the severity with which a DUI/OVI can wreck/ruinmany peoples' lives.
With all the "mens rea" talk - you must be a law student, cute.
December 15th, 2015 at 1:49 PM ^
Not a law student and perfectly relaxed and I really wasn't talking to you, replies to the wrong post. You, being a lawyer, should understand that intent is a crucial factor in determining culpability and the evaluation of aggravating and mitigating factors. Is a DUI first offense "more serious" that assault and battery of a player? No it isn't, the law adjudges the two as relatively equal unless it is felony assualt which this clearly was not. So, as to the question of whether DUI is "worse" than assualting a player? No, because they law says that it's not. DUI causing death or serious bodily impairment? Yes, that has a worse result than an assault on a player and consequently has more serious sanctions attached to it but you can still not identifiy it as "worse" because it would not an intentional act. Apples to oranges.
December 15th, 2015 at 3:05 PM ^
TL;DR
December 15th, 2015 at 12:47 PM ^
I think a DUI is a more serious offense than striking a football player.
The law disagrees.
In Michigan - they are basically identical.
December 15th, 2015 at 1:16 PM ^
Luckily, I wasn't speaking for the law. Thus the word "I."
December 15th, 2015 at 4:49 PM ^
December 15th, 2015 at 1:18 PM ^
Choking and hitting a subordinate is way worse than a DUI. A DUI is a possible safety concern, striking a person that essentially works for you is an actual safety concern. I think second chances are fine, and he seems like a good coach. But calling what happened not as bad as a DUI goes to show how well MADD has pushed the DUI issue.
December 15th, 2015 at 1:31 PM ^
That's a weird way of phrasing it.
Both of them are "actual" safety concerns. I am concerned about drunk drivers, and I am concerned about people hitting each other.
As far as the law is concerned, no charges were pressed against Leavitt (IIRC), and he won a lawsuit against USF.
December 15th, 2015 at 3:11 PM ^
Hitting somebody is intentionally causing actual harm. Less serious harm, usually, but more certain.
Is creating a risk to cause very serious harm worse than deliberately causing definite but less serious harm? I'd say it depends, but they definitely aren't the same thing.
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December 15th, 2015 at 3:50 PM ^
Look, we can pick out differences here or there and say that a green apple is not the same thing as a red apple. Yes, they're both apples, and yes, they taste different and look different. Jim Leavitt hitting/grabbing a kid in the locker room is not even the same thing as Wood Hayes hitting a player on the field.
The bottom line is that neither incident caused anybody harm. Both incidents took place a long time ago. Both involved poor judgment from adults. Neither event was a positive step for the coach involved.
My point is simply that if you're willing to look beyond past mistakes to hire Harbaugh, then it would be odd to let Leavitt's past mistake to prevent you from hiring him. Personally, I think a DUI is worse. (That's up for debate, which is why I presented it as my opinion.) As others have pointed out, the law says they're approximately the same. So why make a distinction and say that Leavitt shouldn't be hired while we sit here and pretend that Harbaugh's legal issues don't exist?
December 15th, 2015 at 4:45 PM ^
But whatever. Personally I'd say the Leavitt thing is a bigger deal when deciding to employ him, because it's something he did while working in his official capacity as coach. Seems like that would potentially raise more liability concerns for the university.
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December 15th, 2015 at 6:29 PM ^
One major reason -
Actions of the Leavitt sort cost the University money. Actions of the Harbaugh sort cost the individual money.
UofM isn't getting sued(barring some odd circumstances) if a coach gets a DUI. Universities get sued when coaches hit players.
December 15th, 2015 at 2:05 PM ^
JH did not intend to harm anyone, while the potential to do so was certainly there. On the Leavitt incident, he intended to harm the player (it appears), but even if not, he seems to have or at least had anger issues. The former is correctible by behavior and, while the second can be correctible by behavior, it may be deep seated and could resurrect itself at any time.
December 15th, 2015 at 2:17 PM ^
If he had truly intended to harm the player, I doubt he would have won the wrongful termination lawsuit. That seems to be a fireable offense. It sounds like USF fired him for "covering it up," which is more questionable and likely led to him winning the lawsuit.
December 15th, 2015 at 2:31 PM ^
settled out of court? If the latter, businesses settle suits all the time when they are innocent in order to avoid a jury trial and sympathetic jurors.
December 15th, 2015 at 2:55 PM ^
He didn't win a wrongful termination suit.
December 15th, 2015 at 3:51 PM ^
True - USF simply paid him $2,750,000 to stop suing them. Which is basically a win.
December 15th, 2015 at 6:33 PM ^
It was also less than half of what he was suing for... Which is basically a win/loss for both sides.
If Leavitt was so in the right - why take 40 cents on the dollar?
If the University was so in the right - why pay 40 cents on the dollar?
December 15th, 2015 at 3:34 PM ^
That's more than the death toll of US troops in Iraq and Afghanistan.
How many players have died at the hands of their coaches?
December 15th, 2015 at 4:49 PM ^
... and only slightly applicable within the context of the discussion. Harbaugh made a mistake, moved on, and has been wildly successful while avoiding similar patterns of behavior. Leavitt MAY have made a mistake, moved on, and has been successful while also avoiding similar patterns of behavior. There is a saying that I've liked and used over the years that I believe may be applicable which is; "every saint has a past, and every sinner has a future." If Leavitt is indeed the next DC, dude probably deserves a clean shot before the self righteous condemn him for a past incident that may be more (or less) that first appears.
December 15th, 2015 at 5:54 PM ^
The point I was trying to make is that drunk driving is much, much worse than a coach placing his hands on a player.
December 15th, 2015 at 2:07 PM ^
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December 15th, 2015 at 11:40 AM ^
He's accused of striking a player and asking both players and coaches to lie about it. I'm more worreid about the accusations of a cover up then I am about the initial indicent. If he'd come out and said, "I made a mistake and it was in the heat of the moment it wasn't the right thing to do and I take responsbility" he probably still has a head coaching position.
The cover up shows his character and that's what got him fired and what should keep him from being a coach at U of M.
December 15th, 2015 at 11:55 AM ^
December 15th, 2015 at 11:59 AM ^
Football == Redemption. It's not a nice sport.
I've been struck several times by football coaches. It gets escalated depending on the circumstance. I've been hit harder, more visciously and to greater effect on the field.
I don't have an issue with this as the administration will vet this duly. Leavitt doesn't need to make a public apology. He needs to talk to the victim and his potential employers.
Convicts can't vote but they can work. Some can even have their voting rights back.
Your horse is high.
December 15th, 2015 at 12:28 PM ^
Are doing just fine thank you. It's the nice thing about college athletics. Everyone can afford to have a high horse. Literally none of this matters in the grand scheme of things. It's a game, and we as a group can be just as invested in it being played the right way as we can in an outcome.
As my original comment said I don't care so much that he struck this player. I care that he thought his next move should be to cover that fact up.
December 15th, 2015 at 4:51 PM ^
There's too much unknown here. No argument - the coverup is troubling. It's on Harbaugh to bridge that and set ground rules if needed.
I don't want abusive coaches. I'm not convinced that Leavitt is one. Beer for our horses.
December 15th, 2015 at 11:30 AM ^
allegedly for grabbing a player. He sued USF & later settled for $2.75M. He coached 49ers linebackers for 4 years before becoming CO's DC & LB coach. See
http://www.denverpost.com/colleges/ci_27468597/colorado-hires-jim-leavi…;
If he's good enough for Harbaugh he's good enough for me.
December 15th, 2015 at 11:37 AM ^
Also, if "the incident" was as bad as was reported, USF wouldn't have paid him nearly $3 million in a settlement.
December 15th, 2015 at 11:46 AM ^
I wouldn't take a settlement as evidence of that. Maybe USF just didn't want the risk that comes with litigating it. Or the bad press. Lots of reasons parties settle legal actions.
December 15th, 2015 at 11:56 AM ^
But I think the size of the settlement indicates that there are nuances to the case that probably aren't known publically.
I'm not going to defend a guy that hits a player (or anyone else for that matter) as there are very few circumstances where that behavior is justified.
But I do believe in second chances and as far as I know there is nothing in his recent history to suggest that there's a pattern or history of violence.
December 15th, 2015 at 1:19 PM ^
You should read more about the case. There are stories that USF was looking to get rid of Leavitt before the incident and that President Judy Genshaft was looking to find a new coach to get the team over the hump but didn't want to pay the buyout of 7 million for firing without cause. There was a FHP Trooper in the lockerroom at the time that wrote a statement claiming that Leavitt did not slap or choke the player
http://www.sbnation.com/2010/1/8/1240729/jim-leavitt-fired-south-florida-bulls-head-coach
For those of you who wonder what tOSU fans might say...here you go.
http://www.buckeyeplanet.com/forum/threads/usf-and-fired-head-coach-jim-leavitt.618234/page-3
December 15th, 2015 at 9:12 PM ^
i don't know if i've *ever* wondered what tOSU fans might say.
partly because it would be mostly unintelligible grunting.
December 16th, 2015 at 8:32 AM ^
to wonder, because my entire family are OSU fans, however; in one of the threads on Leavitt, someone mentioned that it would be interesting to hear what they say taking into account the Woody Hayes incident. As I was searching the articles on Leavitt...I found the buckeye planet article and thought I'd share.
December 15th, 2015 at 11:33 AM ^
I'm glad Leavitt has at least a punchers chance to be our next DC. Would be a knockout hire IMO, given his ability to defend against the spread.
December 15th, 2015 at 11:45 AM ^
What you did there . . . I see it.
December 15th, 2015 at 11:34 AM ^
December 15th, 2015 at 11:38 AM ^
who will, then?
December 15th, 2015 at 11:42 AM ^
December 15th, 2015 at 11:38 AM ^
I'll Leavitt to Harbaugh to determine if this was an isolated incident, and if he's good enough for Michigan.
December 15th, 2015 at 11:39 AM ^
He started the USF football program out of a trailer and in 11 years had them to a point where they were ranked (I believe) as high as #2 mid-season.
December 15th, 2015 at 11:40 AM ^
December 15th, 2015 at 11:46 AM ^
I want someone who'll run a Haiku defense. 5-7-5. Only way to stop the spread.
December 15th, 2015 at 11:46 AM ^
Having 11 players is overrated. Some coaches like to roll with 10 on special teams.
December 15th, 2015 at 11:45 AM ^
I don't really know if recruiting is Leavitt's thing or not. However, he is more known for scheming and talent development. From a scheming and development standpoint, I would say he's probably one of the top 10-15 defensive minds in college football.
December 15th, 2015 at 12:20 PM ^
It sounds like he's done a good job recruiting Florida.
Leavitt doing work in Florida on recruiting trail
Colorado recently received a commitment from St. Petersburg (Fla.) Admiral Farragut defensive back Craig Watts, a consensus four-star prospect. The Buffs have 10 commitments, and Watts was the third Floridian in that group. The other two are from South Plantation High, in the Fort Lauderdale suburbs. So why are three Florida prospects heading West? Colorado’s main recruiter in Florida is defensive coordinator Jim Leavitt, a Florida native who is the former coach at USF. In addition, Admiral Farragut coach Ryan Hearn played for Leavitt at USF. Insiders tell GN that Watts (6 feet, 180 pounds) is the kind of prospect who can play important minutes, if not start, as a true freshman for the Buffs.
USF's Recruiting Continues Lofty Climb
This spring, USF's coaches' offices went from can't-see to must-see as they moved into a state-of-the-art $18 million athletic facility. ``Now we have something to showcase,'' USF coach Jim Leavitt said. Despite working out of trailers, the Bulls still managed to secure Conference USA`s top recruiting class in 2004. In fact, Rivals.com ranked USF's class 43rd in the nation. That was not only tops in C- USA, but also best among the schools in the new Big East Conference, which USF joins in 2005. If the Bulls can land C-USA's and the new Big East's top class a year before getting their first-class facilities, how successful can they be with their new digs? ``They're not yet on par with the `Big Three' [Florida, Florida State and Miami], but they have the potential to be the `Big Four,' '' said Jamie Newberg, national recruiting analyst for TheInsiders.com. ``Every year they've elevated their recruiting. ``They went head to head with Florida for [SuperPrep All-American quarterback] Cornelius Ingram [who signed with the Gators]. Four or five years ago, they wouldn't have had a prayer with him. The new facilities will be a tremendous boost. They have a lot of positives. The next step is to be consistent and win and ultimately getting to a bowl game.'' Leavitt said USF's move to the Big East has been a ``big difference'' in recruiting. ``We've always gone after anyone who will listen, now people are listening more. You never know what hook a young man will want. We're going to continue going after the very best recruits,'' said Leavitt, noting former Bulls Kenyatta Jones, Scott McCready and Ryan Benjamin have won Super Bowl rings. ``People don't want to be in a non-BCS conference if they can be in a BCS conference,'' Leavitt said. ``When a recruit asks, `Coach, can you play for a national title?' The answer is: You can't if you're not in a BCS conference.'' Another difference in USF's recruiting this season is the addition of former Duke coach and Florida assistant Carl Franks as recruiting coordinator. While at Florida, Franks was recruiting coordinator for four seasons, including 1992 when the Gators had the nation's No. 1 recruiting class. ``We'll utilize some things I've done in the past, but they've already proven they've done a very good job here,'' Franks said. ``I'll try to bring some new ideas to incorporate with what they were doing before.'' As in the past, Leavitt and Franks said USF's recruiting priority will be ``a 100-mile radius surrounding Tampa and the state of Florida.'' However, with the move to the Big East the Bulls already have started recruiting in the Northeast.
December 15th, 2015 at 11:49 AM ^
The dude can coach.
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December 15th, 2015 at 11:51 AM ^
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