Prediction-More Tate
It's a bye week, time for us to play future know-it-alls. What % of snaps will Tate see the rest of the year, assuming Denard is healthy? And why? I guess the more popular answer will be 0%. The most shared fact will be Tate's 2 INTs against Iowa, even though 1 of them was when the game was out of reach. However, I disagree with the 0% camp.
I'll predict he sees 30%, but it moves close to 50% for both Wisconsin and O-state. Tate put up 21 pts in less than 2 quarters, while Denard put up 24 pts. in his last 6 quarters. Also, forget the film/prep for Tate argument, we were clearly in a pass heavy situation the entire attempted comeback.
I'd love to see Denard return to September form. But I believe Iowa and State revealed a game plan that others will replicate. He still had good rushing stats against Iowa, but after Tate's bombs to Hemingway and his poise in the red zone, I think they have to platoon him at least a bit.
October 21st, 2010 at 12:06 AM ^
"I'd love to see Denard return to September form"
So would I but unfortunately we don't play Indiana or Bowling Green again this season. We're in the heart of the B10 season and the defenses we're facing are going to be much tougher, plain and simple.
And no, RR is right on this - Denard needs to be the guy. His reading pass defense skills are perhaps not yet as polished as Tate's, but they won't get better if he doesn't play in passing situations.
Once Denard is comfortable in the pocket throwing as he is running the various read/option plays - look out. He'll be unstoppable.
October 21st, 2010 at 12:18 AM ^
Only weakens the offense. Repetiiton is everything. You have an established starter (Denard) and a great, yes I said great, back up (Tate). You stick to that.
With Denard, the offense is more complete because he dictates to the defense how they defend us. With Tate, the defense is able to dictate to us how to play. A subtle difference, but in reality is a huge difference.
October 21st, 2010 at 12:47 AM ^
Do people not understand that Denard is the 16th rated passer in the country? I mean really, this is all getting a little ridiculous. And, oh yea, the leading rusher in the country as well. He's becoming a victim of his early success here. Yes, Tate moved the ball pretty well against Iowa's defense. But how is that much different from what happened last year? He still doesn't have great pocket presence in the face of pressure and scrambles too much. That's already something Denard has him beat on (see: last drive completion to Hemingway vs. Indiana).
Denard is quite simply perfect QB for this offense. Does he miss on deep balls regularly? Yes. Does he also have to potential to improve on that greatly with reps? Absolutely. He's a sophomore and will only get better with playing time. Denard is the pilot of this offense. He makes it go. There may be a few growing pains in his progression...in areas Tate is better at quite frankly. But this team is not winning a national title this year. They'll probably win 8 and with Denard playing every game (the whole game if healthy) and growing, that number will probably increase next year.
October 21st, 2010 at 9:03 AM ^
You hit on a real key here. When Tate is not making poor decisions, he is a more polished passer, particularly on the deep throws, than Denard. However, think where Denard is now versus this time last year. When he develops the touch on the longer throws, which he will with time, he will be even scarier to opposing defenses. I don't think he is quite yet perfect, only because he is erratic on long throws. But I completely agree with you....you have to keep giving him reps so that he can become unbelievable in the next two years. I am a huge Tate fan, but Denard's upside is greater. RR knows what he's doing here.
October 21st, 2010 at 10:24 AM ^
It's been quite obvious that RR is all about winning this year and not just building for the future (i.e. burning DG's redshirt). Tate is a better passer today, you do what you can do with that you have today and you worry about tomorrow, tomorrow. I don't necessarily think that's a good idea but it's qutie obvious that's the standpoint of the coaching staff so it boggles the mind that they'd let games get out of hand just so Denard can get some more reps in the game in passing situations - just doesn't make any sense to me... When we're down to the point where our only hope is passing and/or the O hasn't really done sh!t with Denard in I think it's time for Tate. It has nothing to do with who's better and everything to do with "How can we win this game."
Just to make my point clear - Denard is the starter but I don't think we should ride him until the game is so far out of reach that it wouldn't matter if Tom Brady came in in relief...
October 21st, 2010 at 9:14 AM ^
But how do we reconcile his last 6 quarters of football? As I have said in previous comments and for some reason got negged for, hopefully they were an exception to his body of work for the year. If not, we have to platoon Tate at least a bit. This thread does not question if Denard should start, or if he is the most electric player in the country. It does question Tate's success against Iowa with Denard's recent struggles, and if that should afford Tate a % of snaps moving forward. Based on the replies a growing minority believe Tate should be platooned a bit.
October 21st, 2010 at 10:02 AM ^
I reconcile those last 2 games by saying those were the best 2 defenses he's played so far..phenomenal defenses at that. Yet he still was moving the ball up the field consistently on them. He did make a couple mistakes that cut short a couple drives, but he had some help in that regard. Those mistakes, while painful, are valuable teaching experiences that can't be replaced.
Look, I think Tate is a great talent who is absolutely valuable to this team. No question about it. I also think you have to think long-term when making a decision about your program's starting quarterback when you have two sophomores. Denard will return to being who he was the first 5 games over the next 3 games. Let's remember he only had 2 turnovers those first 5 games, and frankly Tate doesn't take care of the ball like that. The things Tate does well Denard can do to PSU, Purdue and Illinois. He is also the biggest hope of making this team an unstoppable force the next 2 years. He can carry us now and in doing that be better prepared to do that in the future.
October 21st, 2010 at 1:03 AM ^
To put it simply, I think Tate is a more than capable player. I think we could win 2, maybe 3 more games with him at the helm in some extended capacity. HOWEVA, Denard is undeniably the QB1 (not suggesting that you're disputing this fact, OP), and until he can't do the things that make him the superior quarterback, he is the guy who we will win or lose with. With that said, I wouldn't mind seeing some platooning, but I can only really determine the appropriate extent of said 2-QB system until we go to Happy Valley. If Denard is as up to the challenge as I think he is, then this is, essentially, a moot point.
October 21st, 2010 at 2:09 AM ^
because Denard will continue to be periodically banged up. This isn't because DR is fragile or because he's not a dropback QB, but only because he's handling the ball quite a bit and it's a contact sport. It's very difficult to avoid getting hurt regardless of what position you're playing, especially if you're the focus of the defense.
I don't expect DR to lose his starting role for any reason other than injury.
October 21st, 2010 at 7:53 AM ^
Barring injury, I only see Tate coming in if Denard is having a very poor day - not likely. Good to know we have a decent backup behind him though. Compare the duo to Threet & Sheridan is like Kate Beckinsale vs. Rosie O'Donnell. Only one gives you a chance to even perform.
I think Denard goes bat-shit crazy on the ground against Penn State. It's a tough year in Unhappy Valley, and the D isn't up to normal PSU standards. This game provides a chance for the team to get some confidence back, and that's important IMO.
October 21st, 2010 at 9:09 AM ^
of snaps. I never believed it was wise to put him on the bench in the first place and believed it was an irresponsible move on RR's part from the jump. Tate is the best quarterback on our roster and our best bet against competent Big Ten opponents. I want Tate to start, I think that Denard would be a good change of pace to keep defenses guessing. If we want wins, join in prayer that RR sees the light while a glimmer remains.
October 21st, 2010 at 9:23 AM ^
I hope he doesn't see a lot of snaps. I believed it was wise to make tate the back up it was a responsible move on RR's part from the jump. Denard is the best quarterback on our roster and our best bet against competent Big Ten opponents. I want Denard to start, I think Tate would be a good change of pace to keep defenses guessing. If we want wins, join in prayer that RR sees the light and not listen to Ijohnb.
October 21st, 2010 at 9:29 AM ^
5, huh. And you speak regarding responsibility? You are a USC fan wearing a Reggie Bush t-shirt. Go away.
October 21st, 2010 at 9:39 AM ^
WTF... I'm as big a michigan fan as you. You think you're better than me because you have more points on a blog. I disagree with you on thinking Tate should be the starter but what do I know I'm a usc fan wearing a reggie bush t-shirt
October 21st, 2010 at 1:18 PM ^
Fab 5, huh. And you speak regarding responsibility? You are a USC fan wearing a Reggie Bush t-shirt. Go away.
October 21st, 2010 at 9:14 AM ^
I actually think that Denard is over-achieving. No doubt that Denard has the running ability and some throwing ability to move the chains. However, eventually as time passes, I think he will settle back down to his actual talent level. We may already be seeing it.
October 21st, 2010 at 9:30 AM ^
Please explain to me what Denard has done for you not to want him to be the starter? I want a honest answer from the people who believe he shouldn't be the starter. Tell me what really bothers you about Denard be honest people lets be real.
October 21st, 2010 at 9:40 AM ^
and simply put, super-cool, but he has a limited skill set. While the Big Ten has been the subject of criticism for the last few years for various reasons, your typical Big Ten defense is big, physical, and fast. Denard is fantastic in the open field, but he is not going to be able to consistently get into the open field against good Big Ten defenses. If you were frustrated watching MSU and Iowa games, you better polish up your patience for the rest of the schedule. RR can have his way with UConn and Bowling Green. Big Ten teams are going to eat this up. There is no ulterior motive in my critique of Denard Robinson. He looks to be an outstanding kid with a huge upside somewhere on the field. I just feel that Big Ten quarterback is the worst hand you could deal the kid.
October 21st, 2010 at 9:44 AM ^
You do understand Denard has only started seven games. What do you mean limited skill set you are losing me.
October 21st, 2010 at 10:20 AM ^
You must be kidding. Look at where Denard was last season. He could barely complete passes against Delaware State. Now look where he is now. That is not what I would call a limited skill set. I would call that growth. Since he is a sophomore, I would think that progression will continue as he gets more experience.
Denard also had 18 carries for 105 yards (5.8 YPC) against Iowa...in a half of play...as the QB. Is that not moving the ball? Will he break off 70 yard runs against the big boys? Probably not. But he is still keeping the offense going. He moved the ball against MSU also but made key mistakes. Guess what? Ricky Stanzi was an interception machine last season as a Junior and look where he is now. Comments like this convince me that he is a victim of his early success. Denard is the real deal.
October 21st, 2010 at 10:50 AM ^
Somewhere in this thread was a post about those that will never support Denard, you my friend are obviously one of them. I went back and read some of your posts from 4-5 weeks ago, and you had nothing good to say about him then. While I credit you from sticking to your guns, this debate is obviously a lost cause with you.
October 21st, 2010 at 11:37 AM ^
I was enjoying the ride, all the while believing that a hard dose of reality was in store once conference play began. I don't dislike Denard Robinson, I think he is fantastic. I just don't think he is being put in a position for long-term success, both as part of this team and individually. Denard Robinson's future is as Devin Hester, Tedd Ginn Jr., Percy Harvin.
I really like Denard, I just think Tate is a better quarterback and better suited to succeed at quarterback in this conference.
I know Coach Rod is rolling with Denard, so I hope I an wrong.
October 21st, 2010 at 3:35 PM ^
October 21st, 2010 at 1:22 PM ^
However, eventually as time passes, I think he will settle back down to his actual talent level.
He and Vince Young are the only players in history to record two 200/200 games. You really think that was some random fluke and his "actual talent level" is far beneath that?
October 21st, 2010 at 1:50 PM ^
I think we need to at least keep in mind that while Denard is breaking/setting all these records (just as Colt Brennan shattered a bunch of records) that Denard was forced to get those kinds of numbers because 1) our D sucks and 2) our special teams aren't special. Before people get all pissed off - Denard is an exceptional QB with great skill and he's going to, hopefully, lead us back to prominance but let's look at Vince Young's UT team. There were a number of games that VY could have quite easily picked up 200/200 but he played on a team with an absolutely absurd defense so he didn't have to so he either 1) just started handing it off more or 2) actually came out of the game. I'm not willing to say that Denard is better than VY by any stretch of the imagination just because he tied one of his records - he has a long way to go and a lot of games to win but I think at least a fair chunk of his numbers are a direct result of 1) designed QB keepers and 2) our D sucking. I'd bet if Pryor came here instead of OSU he'd have shattered VY's record for 200/200 games as RR would be using his skill set to it's full potential.
October 21st, 2010 at 3:38 PM ^
October 21st, 2010 at 10:06 AM ^
back. I wish he hadn't gotten hurt last game.
The team will break through by the end of the year, and we're going bowling.
October 21st, 2010 at 3:19 PM ^
Maybe you should contact Jim Leyland regarding your idea. Maybe Miguel Cabrera should platoon with a AAA level lefty at first base to give the opposing teams something else to game plan