OT: World has gone insane. Every ESPN commentator agrees Patriots legacy tainted.

Submitted by wolverine1987 on

I am watching the early ESPN coverage and just saw Tom Jackson, Keyshawn Johnson, Chris Carter, Steve Young, Ray Lewis (cough, cough) ALL agree that the Patriots legacy of greatness, and specifically Belicheck and Brady, are tainted by spygate and deflategate, no matter what happens today.

I have no words. Deflate gate is not nothing, it is less than nothing. If deflate gate takes away anything, then every baseball team that ever lived that had a pitcher get caught scuffing the ball, or throwing a spitter, or corking a bat, is forever tainted by that legacy as well. Even though throwing a spitter is WAY more of an advantage than 2 lbs less in a football. 

Like it or not, sports have a slightly different moral code than life itself--perhaps that's because ultimately what team wins a game is entertainment and not life, I don't know. But in any case, we expect people will try to push the rules, and if you get caught you get punished. But then, you move on. Moralizing over this is completely and utterly ludicrous. 

Zappy73

February 1st, 2015 at 2:01 PM ^

Your title really should read "ESPN still insane", this says very little about the world at large. This is merely this year's deer antler spray story, the story that disappears immediately after the Super Bowl ends. Quite simply, they needed to fill two weeks talking about and they could only talk about Marshawn Lynch's press conferences for so long. Easier just not to listen, no real reason to find this outrageous.

PrimeChronic

February 1st, 2015 at 2:29 PM ^

I hope Brady calls for one of the game balls when they are presenting the MVP trophy to him and he pulls out a pressure gauge and shows it at 13 psi for the whole world to see.

That would be epic.

turtleboy

February 1st, 2015 at 2:30 PM ^

What I can't understand is since having a slightly underinflated football is clearly such a drastic advantage over your opponents with making them easier to catch, and less likely to fumble, (despite the case study of the Colts game showing no discernable difference in the two halves) why aren't these reporters crucifying Payton and Rodgers for preferring overinflated balls? Their insistence on handicapping their teams against such a clear advantage has not only cost them games, but playoff wins, and maybe even superbowls! If they had only used a ball 1-2 psi lower, then all those errant passes and fumbled carries could have been avoided! This Superbowl could, nay should be Packers v Broncos. Shame on Aaron Rodgers and Payton Manning! /s

andrewgr

February 1st, 2015 at 2:40 PM ^

It's absolutely tainted, and Brady's reputation will never recover, nor should it.  This was intentional, pre-meditated, unambiguous cheating.  It is not even vaguely the same thing as scuffing baseballs, and it's incomprensible to me that anyone would even think that analogy would pass the laugh test. 

They let the officials inspect the balls, then after they passed inspection, altered them to be outside the rules.  There is no excuse or justification for calling that anything than what it is, which is cheating.  It's not the same thing as altering the ball by scuffing it or inflating it to a bit below regulation BEFORE letting the officials inspect it to see what you can get away with.  This is a deliberate, calculated effort to break the rules whilst deceiving the officals.

I grew up rooting for Pete Rose.  When he got caught gambling on baseball, I was sad, but I didn't bury my head in the sand and make excuses for him or point to all the worse things other players and managers had done.  I sucked it up and accepted that he had a serious flaw that made him less worthy of my adulation than he had been.  The contortions New England and Michigan fans are going through to avoid acknowledging a clear, unambiguous truth about Tom Brady are pretty sad IMHO.

 

andrewgr

February 1st, 2015 at 5:21 PM ^

It's irrelevent whether it changed the game or not.  It could even be proven to have somehow helped the Colts and it wouldn't matter.  I'm befuddled as to why or how you could even think that was in any way even tangentially relevent. 

He cheated.  On purpose.  That's what's relevent.

Andi it is quite reasonable to say this casts a pall on his entire career and the Patriots entire run because it raises serious questions about what we don't know.  The spygate incident was serious enough that the Patriots lost a first round pick.  That's serious.  That's a big deal.  And many presumably impartial people who make their living in and around professional football believe that the punishment would have been worse than that if Kraft wasn't good friends with the commissioner.

Now you have another cheating incident, which shows planning and forethought and a willingness to blatantly deceive officials and cheat in order to gain what was presumably not even that huge of an advantage. 

So it's entirely reasonable-- in fact, I would say logical and normal-- to wonder how many other times the Patriots organization has willfully cheated and just not been caught.  It could be zero, or it could be more than zero.  But that suspicion will always cloud how they are perceived, and it *should* cloud how they are perceived.  There's a price for the actions we take, and when you choose to cheat or lie and get caught, not once but twice, that price is that reasonable people will have doubts about your integrity even in instances in which there is no specific evidence of wrongdoing.

CompleteLunacy

February 1st, 2015 at 3:19 PM ^

Two words that I would choose to not describe this situation.

How the hell can you prove "intent"? Because Spygate? That's ludicrous logic.

How in the hell is this not the very definition of ambiguous? There are several plausible reasons for slightly under inflated balls, and I'm sorry but when basic physics is behind you, it's going to be nigh impossible to prove intent without any certainty. Which by definition makes this situation, ambiguous.

The balls were barely underinflated...that's about the only basic fact we know. All else is baseless speculation and concluding by ignorant people who don't like the Pats.

I hope the Pats win just to spite those that think this is in any way a big deal.

andrewgr

February 1st, 2015 at 5:27 PM ^

There is exactly one plausible reason for why the balls were correctly inflated when inspected by the officials, videotaped beingt taken from the room by the equipment manager for a period of time, then all underflated by the same amount, by an amount that was noticable enough that an opposing player who intercepted the ball immediately brought it to the officals attention: they were intentionally underinflated.

There isn't any other plausible explanation.

And I have no idea what physics has to do with it.  I certainly hope you're not referring to the absurd theory that floated around for about 10 mintues that somehow the temperature had somethingt to do with it, because that was debunked immediately, both because we have hundreds or even thousands of games which have been played in cold whether in which this didn't happen, but even more importantly becuase it didn't happen to any of the balls the Colts were using.

But by all means, please enlighten me by listing some of the other plausible explanations; I will gracefully issue an apology if you can provide a single one.

jonvalk

February 1st, 2015 at 3:38 PM ^

Yes, because being accused (and the evidence keeps mounting that he had nothing to do with anything) of playing with slightly deflated balls for 1/2 of a game is on the same level as GAMBLING ON GAMES YOU HAVE A DIRECT IMPACT ON.

This is a perfect example of the idiocy that is rampant in the media and butthurt former players whiner club. Wow.



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jonvalk

February 1st, 2015 at 2:49 PM ^

Did any of these idiots read the NFL's most recent report saying that only one ball (the one the Colts took) was low by approx 2 psi, where all of the others were barely below 12.5? Serious case of guilty until proven innocent.



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ljmGOBLUESpringLake

February 1st, 2015 at 2:52 PM ^

I have stopped paying attention to ESPN for the most part. Self righteous announcers don't even rate in my book.  The lack of credibility during Michigan's coaching search, sealed it for me.  

I think most of the guys on that ESPN panel are just jealous...pure and simple.

GO PATRIOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GO BLUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

ljmGOBLUESpringLake

February 1st, 2015 at 2:52 PM ^

I have stopped paying attention to ESPN for the most part. Self righteous announcers don't even rate in my book.  The lack of credibility during Michigan's coaching search, sealed it for me.  

I think most of the guys on that ESPN panel are just jealous...pure and simple.

GO PATRIOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

GO BLUE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

BLUEDOZER

February 1st, 2015 at 4:31 PM ^

The NFL needs to learn a lesson from NASCAR. it is the NFL's job to make sure all the equipment is legal. With all the money they make they can hire somebody to check all the balls and be in control of them. The teams will try to take every advantage they can. I am really sick of this whole "deflate gate" thing. It stupid. The Pats didn't win that game because of the air pressure of the balls.



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bacon

February 1st, 2015 at 5:10 PM ^

I love that people think that New England is cheating because they had footballs that were underinflated. I'd love to see the reasoning behind the idea that having balls under 12.5 psi is such a competitive advantage that the NFL banned it. Based on what? The nfl lets the teams scuff up the footballs and rub them down however they want, which the qb's clearly care a ton about, because they want to promote offense. Why then would they give a fuck about how much psi the ball has and say that having too little air in the ball makes it unfair. The patriots are not cheating. Putting too little air in the ball is not cheating. It's a uniform violation. The fine is similar and the NFL cares a lot about things like people all wearing the same cleats and not having patches on their jersey. If they really cared about a competitive advantage with the air pressure or the prep of the ball, they wouldn't let the teams provide their own footballs.

KO Stradivarius

February 1st, 2015 at 5:27 PM ^

I'm surprised that these NFL apologists aren't trying to downplay it.  They either really hate the Pats or they (gasp) actually have conviction and really believe it....nah

PrimeChronic

February 1st, 2015 at 5:29 PM ^

I've seen zero evidence that Brady or Belicheck even had anything to do with this. This IS America right? Innocent until proven guilty?

I haven't heard that phrase once from anyone in the news reporting on this. Such a quick rush to judgement. Some people just sit back and wait for people to appear to fall so they can dump all over them to feel better about themselves.

Zero evidence that either of those 2 had anything to do with this.

WMUKirk

February 1st, 2015 at 9:01 PM ^

Because that's a criminal clause. Has nothing to do with private businesses. In the NFL they don't have to uphold that standard. And innocent until proven guilty is a misspoken statement by those that aren't aware. You don't plead "innocent." You plead "not guilty." It's just as hard to prove innocence as it is to prove guilt. Most cases lie in the 1%-99% doubt level which is Not Guilty. The NFL can subjectively decide what's guilt and what isn't.



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Cold War

February 1st, 2015 at 5:34 PM ^

They're repeat offenders and what we know is probably the tip of the iceberg. Tainted they are, and tainted they should be.

If we learned Ohio had been illegally filming our coaches or deflating footballs in games past, how many of you would be rationalizing that away?

CoverZero

February 1st, 2015 at 6:21 PM ^

What about all of the Steroids those dumb-ass ex players turned "commentators" took to improve their performance...?

Was that not cheating?

F em.

ca_prophet

February 1st, 2015 at 7:21 PM ^

Deflated footballs aren't anything serious by itself, nor do I expect any serious punishment for the incident. However, add the perception that the Patriots are constantly pushing and breaking any rule they think they can get away with, and any incident which can be spun to their disadvantage will be. Coupled with Spygate and the numerous other bad PR incidents, it gives the people who define legacies - the media - the power to downplay their achievements. Finally, the most damning is that the Patriots have lost twice to Giants teams which were much, much worse during the regular season. Once can happen to anyone, but twice makes people think they just weren't as good as we thought. None of this says that I agree - as I said, I regard the recent incident as non-serious. But these Patriots legacy will be diminished because of the accusations of cheating, because in the Age of Twitter you won't be able to discuss them without those things coming up.

lbpeley

February 1st, 2015 at 7:52 PM ^

MSNBC supposedly caters to the left. Fox News supposedly caters to the right. Who the fuck does ESPN think they cater to? I know no one that thinks "deflategate" is a big deal. Why the hell are these asshats pushing this so hard? Besides Colts fans and diehard Pats haters, anyone else who is being honest with themselves (and the aforementioned 2 groups are included) have to know this is bullshit. Talk about trying to make their own news. Reason # 8 billion and six I only watch any of the ESPN channels for live sports events only.

WMUKirk

February 1st, 2015 at 9:13 PM ^

If and when the patriots lose people will remember them 3-0 before spygate and 0-3 after. And there's no way facts will make it to all of the casual fans. The casual fan will remember just that, 3-0 to start, and 0-3 after. And no amount of Michigan fandom can change that.



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MIMark

February 1st, 2015 at 11:34 PM ^

God, I am so glad ESPN does not have broadcast rights for the Super Bowl. They would have brought up this non story on every Patriots snap.