OT - UNC receives its notice of allegations
from a bruce feldman tweet:
RT @Andy_Staples RT @TarHeelFootball: UNC has received a Notice of Allegations from NCAA. Information later on TarHeelBlue.com.
obviously no details yet. i hope they slam UNC, but that they really save their energy for OSU.
Predictions anyone?
It'll be bad. Probably worse than anything OSU gets.
i hope you're wrong. not because i believe that what they did is more forgiveable than what osu did, but b/c i hate osu.
i think you might be wrong, actually. there's a better paper trail at osu. at least from what we've seen so far.
Negbang them both to Bolivia
Someone just read the mgoblog memes thread.
+1, which: duh means you're not getting negbanged to Bolivian.
The NCAA has really solid evidence that an assistant coach was an employee of an agent and that he was steering recruits to that agent! Said coach has been in trouble with the NCAA before re: recruiting violations. I'm not sure what the NCAA thinks is worse, but it seems like the UNC stuff is worse to me.
The OSU stuff is bad, but it seems like the NCAA will think this is worse to me.
We are about to see which is worse in the eyes of the NCAA:
(a) school with assistant coach with agent ties and agent activities with players, or
(b) school with head coach that lies muliple times to NCAA
both involve ineligible players although it's likely that OSU is far more guilty here.
Both compliance departments dropped the ball in monitoring things and are likely to get failure to monitor but UNC was certainly more proactive in investigating and suspending people once the problems were discovered.
It's going to be a fun side note to the season. Perhaps a game show "Let's Make a Deal/Running Man" NCAA penalty ruling since the new boss is supposed to take a hard line with offenders.
Whose first to receive the new punishment, OSU Aug 12th
Remember, UNC got its Notice of Inquiry last summer. I expect OSU's hearing to get pushed back or for them to get a new Notice of Inquiry to deal with the new stuff that will take much longer.
They're both obviously pretty bad and I personally think they're worse than USC's scandal, but we'll find out.
It seems like there are some really bad scandals every decade or so. Kind of like mafia wars...
Forgot the question mark at the end of my last sentence. So what I asking is, OSU is first in the NCAA gun sight right?
Also agree on your point about OSU getting an additional notice of allegation (LOIC/FTM). Perhaps they will roll it into one, or push back the date (AUG 12).
I think OSU is next now that Tennessee has had its hearing.
I'd guess OSU will try to split up the allegations if given the choice, but that's conjecture. It may help them separate Jim Tressel's sins from those of the larger program.
BTW, I'm watching College Football Live and they haven't said a word about UNC.
I'm at work and I just tuned in to CFL (I DVR it at home). TP on now.
As far as I know, there are no allegations to split up. Everything after the initial NOA to OSU has been "noise". The NCAA has not commented on it, or served an additional notice to OSU. If they do serve another notice, then I suppose the NCAA will let them know if they want to delay the response and penalty hearing.
I don't think the NCAA has sent out a new NOA, but given the glacial pace the NCAA moves at, I wouldn't be surprised if something new comes out.
take more of the same cooperative approach that Michigan did, versus "just these five guys, just this lone incident" and "no sir, I had no prior knowledge that these five guys were doing this".
They also suspended a bunch of players before the season even started, rather than playing them all season and then saying "oops".
UNC: 0
I don't think it's going to be as bad as a lot of folks think and I think Butch's history at Miami and the fact they he benched a bunch of players from the start will be a big part of why it's not as bad. There is one glaring problem that Butch has and it is that he hired the cheater, knowing he was a cheater. The reality is, UNC was ill equipped to handle big time football players and agents lurking all over the place. It's much easier to manage a few basketball players than it is to manage all those highly touted football players.
I'm not making any excuses for him, but I just have this gut feeling that he's gonna get off easier than a lot of people think. When that happens, the NCSU fans are going to jump off the cliff. They're about as unstable as MSU fans.
go rig the rescue net under my neighbor's window ...
Sorry, but as much as I dislike that school to the south, their NCAA violations do nothing good for the sport of college football nor for the repuation of the B1G. Ditto for UNC, whom I really could care less about.
I'm just happy that our days of being in the crosshairs are largely behind us.
I don't think anyone is happy that those schools have committed violations - just that they might get their just desserts.
They need to save their energy for Oregon and especially Auburn.
...loss of 3-5 schollies per year, no postseason ban per UNC football board.
Radio speculation in North Carolina:
"1. If it's just loss of a few scholarships then the NCAA did not consider Blake a runner.
2. If they consider Blake a runner, and he kind of hinted that he thought they would, then scholarship losses could go to 7 or 8 for 3 years or so. He said in this scenario that Butch and Baddour should be gone.
3. Thinks the 2009 season will be forfeited.
4. Said he would rather have a post season ban than loss of 7-8 scholarships for 3 years.
5. He really made it sound like Butch would have a hard time surviving this because of his history with Blake and the phone records have hurt.
6. Thought one thing working in our favor is that if we get hammered then they would really have little flexibility with OSU's punishment."
Currently redacting sensitive info.
Edited to add: highly likely there will be no LOIC, but they are expecting (since it hasn't been released) a combination of probation, scholarship losses, and vacated wins.
That they feel they have to slam Ohio State just as badly.
I am having a hard time getting worked up about UNC simply because we don't ever play them so it does not impact us. Also, they are historically not that good.
That said, hope that the NCAA throws the book at them as part of a new "tough on crime" approach to violations. Unfortunately, there is too much slime in college football these days. It seems like it is worse than ever, but it could very well be that it has always been this bad and we just hear about more now because of the interwebs. Either way, let's hope that all of the recent BS from Cam Newton, TP, OSU, UNC and potentially Oregon and others forces the NCAA to grow a set and start handing out real penalties.
Worst scandals of 2011:
1. THE Ohio State University: systemic and systematic cheating. So many violations that they can't hide them all. Likely outcome: 5 year probation, vacating of at least two years of games.
2. The Auburn Tigerettes. According to their own FOIA'd records, Auburn paid 21 current Tigerettes $78,044.26 between October 2009 and May 31, 2011.
Auburn's defense: you can't spell "hostesses" without "ho." In this case, it will work. The recruits will be seen as "victims of sexual assault" and many Tigerettes will face charges of statuatory rape. The disposition of their cases will depend on whether the judge is an Auburn fan or an Alabama fan.
3. UNC. They may get the worst penalties of anyone, but it will happen in a vacuum. Nobody cares about UNC football.
"UNC wasn't ready for big time football". Here's a perfect illustration. UNC has 26 sports total (men/women combined). Alabama has 12. Alabama had over DOUBLE the amount of staff in the compliance dpeartment than UNC did and most of them were for football. I was kind of shocked when I heard that but it puts this whole thing in perspective. Players and agents had pretty much an open forum for a few years. I suspect that will change quickly now.
to touch their football program with a barge pole is beyond me.
And he learned it all while playing for the best swindler in the bidnez - Barry Switzer.
this will be the biggest problem for Butch to overcome.
I predict PAIN!
Oregon, OSU, Auburn, and UNC are making news for what happens off the field. If the NCAA doesn't start making examples now, they never will.
Here is the notice:
Summation:
- Bylaws 10.1, 10.1(b), 14.11.1 - Academic fraud: two football players receiving improper assistance from 2008-2010 and competing while ineligible from 2008-2010.
- Bylaw 16.11.2 - 2009-2010, alum Jennifer Wiley (former tutor) provided $3,500 in illegal benefits: airline tickets, parking violation expenses, free tutoring when no longer employed by university.
- Bylaws 10.1, 10.1(a), 10.1(c), 19.01.3 - Wiley knowingly provided benefits and was uncooperative in the investigation. Failure to deport self IAW principles of honesty sportsmanship etc. etc.
- Bylaw 12.1.2.1.6, 12.3.1.2 - Seven football players receiving total of $27,000+ in illegal benefits, about $13,500 of it agent related, mostly from Gary Wichard and Todd Stewart. (One player found to have received a grand total of $54.50.)
- Bylaws 10.1, 10.1(d) - Unidentified player failed to deport self etc. etc.: lied to investigators last summer.
- Bylaw 11.1.4 - Asst. coach John Blake partnered with / employed by Pro Tect Management (Wichard's agency) to influence players to sign with PTM.
- Bylaw 11.2.2 - Blake failed to report $31,000 in income from PTM.
- Bylaws 10.1, 10.1(a), 10.1(c), 19.01.3 - Blake failed to deport self etc. etc.: lied.
- Constitution 2.8.1 - Failure to monitor.
There's the list.
So, with the above, predictions:
- Blake gets, like, an eight-year show-cause. Wiley also banned from the school, which the school will be happy to do itself.
- Vacate everything from 2008-2010. The FSU precedent.
- Loss of 8 schollies a year for three years.
- No postseason ban.
- Four years of probation.
Since UNC dodged the "lack of institutional control" label (which seems not totally unreasonable) I think the end result is something less than what we'll see with Ohio State.
I just read the NOA. Dodging the lack of institutional control tag was huge, but it's really bad. USC and the PAC-12 wil blow up if UNC gets something less than they did.
I think they may get worse than USC, maybe 11-12 scholarships. You know you're in trouble when Brian Bozworth is named in your 2011 NOA.
The Hinton piece put things in better perspective for me. I guess I have somewhat less faith in the NCAA than maybe I should. I have this pessimism about the NCAA allowing the coach to fall on his sword for his employer and let the employer off light because of it. Hit the coach harder than the school, you know? And I wonder how the NCAA sees a comparison between one player getting a huge pile of benefits and seven players getting moderately-sized benefits (and one of them getting $54.50. Somebody missed a whole season over $54.50.) Which is worse in the NCAA's eyes? I dunno.
There's probably another NOA coming down the pike for OSU, so I think UNC's hearing will be a good litmus test here. Because I think - think - the NCAA will see a lying head coach as worse than a lying assistant coach even though the sins of the assistant coach are greater.
Hinton is the best general college football writer out there. He's got a great voice and perspective.
There's a lot more "breadth" to the UNC allegations, and it includes 2 things the NCAA really hates: agents and academic scandals.
I really think USC got the penalty they did because they were pissing off the NCAA. As you said, it will be a good litmus test to see how the NCAA handles a program who is somewhat cooperating (assuming they are).
...synopsis of the findings by Matt Hinton.
Thus concludes what appears to be the perfect storm of NCAA death: Players got paid, agents were everywhere, players committed academic fraud, coaches, players and tutors alike misled or stonewalled investigators — and there was direct institutional knowledge via Blake, who (according to the NCAA) not only knew but was actively participating in flouting the rules in a way that the last guy the NCAA accused of being a rogue assistant coach, USC scapegoat Todd McNair, never dreamed.
If you've been following this case from the beginning, none of those charges are new. But it is eye-opening to see all of them exhaustively detailed in one place for the first time, and there is no escaping the conclusion that the Tar Heels are going to feel the maximum, USC-level pain in response — up to and including a postseason ban and heavy scholarship losses. Institutionally, North Carolina worked hard to distance itself from the worst offenders ingratiate itself as a collaborator in justice when it became aware of the violations, but if the NCAA can't throw the book at a school that employed an assistant coach it accuses of acting as a runner for an NFL agent, it might as well ditch the rulebook and badges and rename itself the "Basketball Tournament Deposit Association."
Only $27,000 to seven players? If I'm Gene Smith, I'm reading that and I'm thinking "God, what a bunch of pikers".