OT: Talking Cars Tuesday - Pay at the Pump
We're not back where things were a few years ago, but gas prices are up some. There's a lot of "analyst angst" that we're heading for problems as gas prices increase and Americans have been buying bigger and bigger vehicles. Trucks & SUVs dominate the market (although SUVs/crossovers have gotten much more efficient than they were 15 years ago...) and shoppers are compromising on efficiency for increased space. Rather than worry about the big picture - how important is gas mileage to you in your car decisions? Is there a gas price that would cause you to look for something smaller/more efficient? How about a hybrid/electric? Are gas prices filtering into your decisions there? What's your current MPGs? How about for your next ride?
I love my Silverado 2500 for when I need to get things done but with the crappy MPG and diesel prices, I'd like an electric as well for the day to day errands and road trips
If it's just a secondary vehicle... used Nissan Leafs are pretty dirt cheap. I have no idea about their longevity, range on used batteries, etc. but it might be worth looking into if your current mileage is bad enough. A quick search here in Chicago shows low mileage options for about $11K.
https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/Nissan/Leaf/Chicago+IL-60603
I remember convincing myself that I paid for a car with gas savings by switching from a 16MPG Jeep to a 32MPG VW CC for 104,000 miles.
I love the Bolt/Volt. The Bolt in particular. It seems to be a good vehicle that is reliable.
But GM seems to pretend it doesn't exist. No ads, nothing.
Oneday maybe some Rivian tech will come online and give you the best of the both worlds.
Premium's up to about $3.75 here in Chicago (I paid $3.42 at Costco for premium last week, it's closer to $4.50 elsewhere in the city) but I'm still happy with how my GTI does on gas as long as I don't drive like an ass. I average about 26-30MPG on my commute, which seems pretty good. Highway miles are around 37+ MPGs, which I'll take all day. I think I'm set up pretty well to minimize how gas prices effect me.
My wife's Cherokee is a different story. She drives super urban and manages about 16MPGs. We'll get 29 on the highway when we do take it on trips, which isn't awful for such a heavy vehicle. I was hoping we'd find a hybrid when we were shopping in Sept '18, but the selection of what was out there was limited. Kia wasn't interested in selling us a Niro, the back seat of the Chevy Volt made that a no-go, the A3 E-Tron was too expensive, and there weren't many other options. I think when her lease ends in 2021 there will be more options in the market. Hopefully FCA brings the plug-in-hybrid Compass here, that would probably be the easiest sell for her.
Same boat with a '15 GTI. Premium stings a bit but the mileage is solid. I did love my '10 Golf TDI, but when they bought it back for the same price as a 5 year newer used GTI I couldn't pass it up.
My current plan is to drive the GTI until I can get something fully electric that won't limit my road-tripping too much, and then drive that until I can get something that will drive itself.
I'm going to try very hard not to buy a Mk VIII when they come out - I got one of the earlier Mk VIIs. I just rolled 67k, the car is doing great, and I do NOT need a new one. Yet. But when they come out....
Bought a 2016 Passat SEL Premium with the VR6 a few months back. With the VR6 (in addition to most of VW's turbos) though premium isn't required it is highly recommended to get the best possible mileage (not great, obvs - 20/28) and achieve the full 280 horses. However, going to Sam's and filling up with premium for nearly the same price as regular at Shell/Speedway makes me smile each time, doubly so when I can get 5% back with my Discover.
Sorry, after Dieselgate, I could never buy a VW.
If you are purchasing the vehicle, I am wondering what happens when the batteries need replacing. I heard a story about a older Escape hybrid cost $5,000 to replace the batteries. Not sure about the life span, though. Seems like leasing would be better to avoid the risk of the hybrid maintenance costs.
I've owned a Prius for 10+ years and put over 90,000 miles on it. No issues with the battery pack to date. We'll run this car to the ground, then thank it for its reliable service when it finally dies (battery-related or not) in the next few years.
We definitely feel like the money spent to purchase this car was worth it, especially when amortized over 10+ years.
At least when gas prices go up, the percentage of price of premium is lower when compared to regular. (i.e. $2 regular vs $2.50 premium is a 25% increase in cost but at $3 regular vs $3.50 premium you only pay a 17% increase in cost). I don't think this helps, but it's something.
I've been weirdly fascinated by gas mileage ever since I started driving in the 1980's, so gas mileage has always entered into my buying decisions. I have always logged MPG's. I was so thrilled when my '86 Ford Escort manual eclipsed the 40 MPG barrier for the first time.
My current ride (Subaru Outback) manages about 30 MPG around town in the summer, mid-20's in the Upper Midwest winters. Optimal MPG performance was about 36 MPG cruising the UP's 2 lane highways.
I know it's not a popular choice around these parts, but I also drove a Prius for 6+ years. It was a great commuter vehicle that consistently delivered 55+ MPG in around-town warm weather driving conditions. It's my kids' car now - a very solid choice for teen driving. They appreciate how little it costs to put gas in the tank.
Regardless of future gas prices, I'm mostly likely going electric for my next vehicle. A Volt-like engine would be best to eliminate range anxiety outside of town - I assume that engine architecture is in Chevy's future plans, despite the Volt's announced demise? I'll explore all options, though.
I've been weirdly fascinated by gas mileage ever since I started driving
One of the great features of many modern vehicles is the ability to track, in real time and over long periods of time, gas mileage. I love that feature on my van, especially on long trips, when I can get an active feel for when mileage is higher or lower.
My interest is mostly numeric and economic, but I'd love for a bigger market to develop for modifications for cars that actually improve mileage. There's lots of stuff you can do to make cars and trucks perform better, but not much for mileage (though I've heard that upgrading the air intake on my Camry will improve mileage, anyone who knows able to verify this?). I understand things like smaller tires help, but it would be nice if more stuff were developed for the same purpose. I'm sure there's at least a small set of people who would be as interested at beefing up their mileage as others are at beefing up their power and road/off-road performance.
Not really. Air intakes advertise HP & MPG gains, but they're really directionally correct and worth less than 1% increase.
Biggest thing you can do for mileage is drive slowly and make sure to do your regular maintenance. Keep your tires properly inflated. Use efficient tires. Use AC minimally except on the highway. If you want to get kooky you can tape over seams, use energy efficient wheel covers, and hypermile.
I like all the options my hybrid provides me to track mileage. Yet, at the same time, it could provide so much more in analytics! All the numbers are there, and I'm sure the computer can pull them all up at the dealership (ie: crash metrics), but we get next to nothing from what is no doubt available. All it takes is some simple graphics configuration... Ugh!!!
I always factor fuel efficiency into my car buying decisions. I've looked at hybrids several times, but I just can't justify the price premium at current gas prices. We'll be buying a new SUV for the wife next year. Gas mileage will be a big factor in that purchase given we've been rollling up 18K+ miles per year on her vehicle due to Michigan football season tickets and family in Michigan.
Yeah, I think we're getting closer to the math working. Price premium goes down, options go up... that's why I'm thinking 2021 we'll get something with a big battery.
I don't care about gas prices, since I need to drive. I do, possibly, care about mileage.
I want to buy a new sporty car and I'm debating between a Subaru WRX STi and a Civic Type R. The STI gets around 22 MPG on the freeway. I'd expect to see sub-15 MPG on my commute. The Type R gets around 30 MPG on the freeway. The difference in mileage is giving me pause. Especially since the Type R is much faster, cheaper, and better equipped.
I looked at the GTI and Focus ST, but when I was shopping in 2014 eliminated the WRX due to mileage - and it's better than the STi!
Sounds like you're looking for fun. If you want something less race-car-looking I'd suggest a Golf R be added to your list to look at. The Veloster N probably isn't as nice/proven, and I think it's a little smaller than the others on your list. The hardest part might be finding the cars you want, happy hunting!
Thanks for the advice. I've been measuring my driving lately and I commute less than 5 miles a day on pretty nice (upstate NY, not Michigan) roads, so I could probably justify the STi despite the terrbile economy.
I've been looking at the Golf R as well. I don't think they photograph very well, but there's one that I see around campus and it's a good looking car. The DSG (or DGS, I can't remember) would be fun to drive and the option of a full auto mode might be nice. It's also super fast, but I'd actually prefer the Golf R to be a little more extreme looking.
Those three, along with a CPO Ford Focus RS, all have their pluses and minuses. I drove my current Civic through one winter up here on all season tires and it was genuinely scary in a way that it never was in A^2. I'm not sure if snow tires on the Type R would be doable, or if I need a real AWD car. My wife's new Outback was totally fine last winter.
I agree that the Golf R is quite subtle. The Spektrum program at least lets you order some flair with one of 40 colors.
If it's in the budget, maybe consider an S3 (mechanically the same as a Golf R DSG) or an RS3 - that 5 cylinder motor has plenty of character!
I drive a hellish 4 minutes to work now so my Jeep is fine. I hope to get into the VA in the next couple years and would have about a 50 minute drive so I might have to think more carefully about gas mileage at that point.
I took the family on vacation last week in my Mazda CX-5 crossover SUV. I made it from Columbus to Escanaba with just one stop for gas around Grayling. I averaged about 32 mpg even with it loaded to the gills and cruising along at 80 mph most of the way.
I keep a close eye on the mpg... maximizing my efficiency is pretty much a game I play to entertain myself in the car. My wife drives a small sedan, so downsizing to a really efficient car isn't in the cards for me. I think my current car is probably about the best I can do to maintain some cargo space.
Unleaded was $2.59/gal yesterday here in Kentucky, but sadly my car takes premium - ~$3/gal seems to be about what I'm paying these days. My car gets anywhere between 21-26mpg (depending how aggressively I'm driving).
I guess my question for the board would be - how often do you put premium in your car that *allegedly* only takes premium gas? I have a 2018 Acura TLX ASpec and have heard from people that drive far nicer cars than mine that it is okay to do every-other tank with the premium gas. Obviously I'd like to have this car for a long time and would love some input on whether this is actually okay or not...
While in SanFran last month, gas was $3.79/gal, and in Yosemite (where there's one gas station every hundred miles or so) it was $4.39/gal - both prices made my insides hurt. MPG would become much more of a big deal to me if I had to pay those prices regularly.
Mixing gas totally depends on the car and the quality of the premium gas. Is premium 93 or 91 where you live? If it’s 93 you could probably mix 93 and 89 in a 50-50 ratio.
If it’s shitty CA blend 91 on a turbo motor, I wouldn’t even think about it.
91, which makes me hesitant
I would be too.
Another thing to consider - When I looked into mixing race gas in my old Mustang, depending on which octane rating system they use, the octane of a mixed tank may or may not be a simple average of the two octanes.
It’s been 15 years, so the details are fuzzy, but if you’re serious you should look into it.
It doesn't help that US gas doesn't include any actual Octane molecules.
(R+M)/2!!
Obviously your TLX is not an S2000, but when I worked at a Honda dealer years ago our gas on base was barely 87 octane (probably 85) and we were instructed to fill the cars on the lot with it. The S2000s griped frequently with engine knocks and check engine lights. We eventually got permission to fill up with premium at the corner station. My advice? I wouldn't ever go below medium grade. Stick with premium if your wallet can support.
Like you said, I'll probably stick with the premium - which base were you at? I lived at WPAFB for a number of years.
I'm at WPAFB now. After North Dakota for 4 years I'm very happy. We're also from the Cleveland area so close to home is nice for the first time in my career.
Wright-Patt itself is okay, but the surrounding area is too close to Columbus! I've spent a lot of time at NASIC, and still deal with them. Almost got kicked out one day, though, when I changed the monitor defaults to gold font on a blue background...
So far I've found Dayton and Cincinnati to be a good mix of other school's fans. Lots of Michigan fans, Cincinnati, and Kentucky are the other primaries.
Being in ND for that long can make even Dayton OH seem nice. I'm also from near the Cleveland area (Youngstown, near the AF Reserve base) so Dayton was even a step up from that
Your modern car should be fine on regular 87 octane. You will get less power and worse gas mileage. Most cars either recommend premium or require premium. Most of the time it's about your HP rating. My GTI is rated 210HP in the states (220 with the performance pack). In Europe the exact same engine is rated 220 or 230HP, because they have higher octane gasoline. Mazda's turbo engine actually advertises what HP they get on regular and premium.
Pretty interesting fact about the different HP ratings! I'll probably will stick with premium because this beast is a "drive it til the wheels fall off" car for me. Wouldn't want to run into any issues far down the road because I wanted to save a few cents per gallon.
From the Mazda website:
Engine type SKYACTIV®-G1 2.5T Dynamic Pressure Turbo DOHC 16-valve 4-cylinder with VVT
Horsepower 87 octane regular unleaded fuel 227 hp @ 5,000 rpm
Horsepower 93 octane premium unleaded fuel 250 hp @ 5,000 rpm
https://www.mazdausa.com/vehicles/cx-9/specs
random question: I use rec gas in all my non car applications. Sometimes when filling up the boat or the gas can the car needs gas. I'm always curious if a new ish car (2007, or 2016) could safely run ethanol free gas.
We just did a vacation with our 2015 Toyota Sienna (best family vehicle we've owned to date). Typically we get 19-ish mpg on the highway with the A/C running in the summer. We filled up with 88 octane E-15 gas before our return drive and pulled almost 24 mpg. I'm sold on the change in fuel, especially because the E-15 was 5 cents cheaper than 87 unleaded. My 2011 Honda Accord LX gets good mileage, but I've never really tracked the mpg because it's a work commuter (~3 miles one way to work) for me and rarely sees the highway.
Just make sure that your car is E15 compatible before switching! Not all engines are.
It is. The manual and gas cap state E15 is the max. No E20 or E85.
I'm surprised your mileage is that low in a Sienna on the highway. My minivan's highway mileage is more in the 22-25 range depending upon wind and highway speeds (mileage is lower on I-75 from the Bridge to Clare because the limit is 75 mph, and, well...) and it's not outstanding.
I'm still not sure about the 88 stuff and I would love to read up on it from people who have put it through actual tests. One of my problems is the couple of times I've done mileage tests I've been thwarted from a reliable result by weather (again, wind--driving southwest into a 15 mph wind just wrecks things, for example).
Interesting topic. I recently rented a Yukon XL SLT to haul 8 folks around the northeast. Was very surprised at the gas mileage we got. I averaged just above 20mpg for the whole trip. Pretty good mix of city and highway driving, with the a/c running on full blast (that whole humidity thing es no bueno!). Anyway, for such a large, heavy people hauler, I was impressed. Still cost $72+ to fill it up though thanks to its 27 gallon tank! Even if I could afford a truck like that, gas prices and mileage would be a serious concern.
Cherry ride though. Leather everything...lots of cool sensors around the entire car. If I got to close to something the seat would vibrate right under my right leg...pretty nifty.
I rent for work to go from Chicago to Detroit often. I was really impressed when I got about 21mpg round trip in a new Suburban (with colleagues, and it's not what I meant to rent, but the rental place gave it to me).
Other recent CHI-DET round trips include 37MPGs in an Altima and 30MPGs in a V6 2019 Camaro(!!, this was a better highway cruiser than I thought)
This must be a regional thing with the prices? Filled up at $2.34 in Lewisburg on Saturday. Basically normal price I've been paying last couple years.
That said fuel efficiency is very important to me, although I wouldn't consider any hybrid/battery powered/diesel vehicle right now. The math just doesn't work. Maybe when (not if) gas goes back to $5 a gallon it may make sense. Or electrics come down in price, but not now.
Turbo 4s around 2L displacement seem to be a good sweet spot for highway commutes. Usually get around 30 mpg, which isn't much less than my smaller car now.
Moved out to California this past year and spent the 1st month renting a vehicle. I drive around 100 miles a day and was spending $50 every few days to fill up.
I purchased a Tesla and haven’t missed visiting a gas station since. It’s effortless to plug in at night and wake up with a full tank. I understand concerns around electric vehicles, as well as there costs, but it’s great not having to visit gas stations or getting an oil change.
For those that think range is an issue, do you often drive over 300 miles a day? If so, you must already be paying a lot in fuel charges.
At this point, being from a big 3 family, my frustration lies with their inability to produce an attractive EV. They aren’t doing a thing to try and curb our dependence on oil.
15mpg diesel with 36 gallon tank. Usually fill up once a week. This will hopefully be my ride for the next 10 years.
Nice spot next to my leg for my MGoGun.
It's an increasing factor; but it's not decisive. I do want to limit the amount of carbon I put into the atmosphere. I'd be thrilled to get a diesel in an SUV that got pretty good mileage. I'm open to hybrid. But the package has to be there.
In my recent car shopping extravaganza I ended up with a 300. EPA ratings are 29/21 I think, but I'm averaging 31/24. The 3.6/8speed combination really seems to work. The Ecoboost (2 liter) I tested was better, but harder to to be better (I had to drive significantly slower to avoid spooling up the turbos as much).
I looked at a Fusion Hybrid/Energi, but the battery sucked up too much space.
For me my hierarchy goes:
1) usable space/safety (tie)
2) reliability/simplicity & cheapness of repairs
3) comfort/mileage (tie)
Glad you like your 300! That might actually be my favorite rental car for the CHI-DET trips. Plenty of highway power, comfortable, feature rich, and pretty darn good on gas.
It also helps that it's a high content vehicle for my plant and that my signature is on prints for 5 part numbers in it.