OT: Secretary of Defense gives Navy CB approval to play for Tampa Bay
Just saw this article on ESPN. Is Cameron Kinley the first service academy player to go pro? If not, did the others need approval from the Sec. of Defense? He will continue to serve once his playing career comes to an end. Interesting story.
https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/31771373/secretary-defense-allows-cb-cameron-kinley-attend-tampa-bay-buccaneers-camp
How far back do you want to go? Roger Staubach served his time in the Navy before a 10 year career with the Cowboys.
The Cowboys had an Air Force alum back in their most recent heyday (mid-1990s). Chad Hennings. I'm old enough that I can remember his career.
He was very very good at the collegiate level, he was an All-American (at a then-WAC school, no less) as a defensive lineman. He had a multi-year gap between AFA and the Cowboys as he served his military commitment, but he still wound up playing in the NFL for several years and he won a couple of rings.
In a Baltimore Sun article from November 2019 "Esper signed a memo last Friday laying out the new guidelines, which says the athletes must get approval from the defense secretary, and it requires them to eventually fulfill their military obligation or repay the costs of their education."
I believe that prior to this officers were expected to serve out their enlistments before joining the NFL.
Not to be a pompous ass, but officers don't "enlist". They are commissioned and serve at the pleasure of the President.
I understand there is a difference in terminology, thank you for clarifying. In the case of officers, then, they are serving out their commission?
In essence, don't all members of the armed forces "serve at the pleasure of" the president? Is there a difference in the commitment given by officers as compared to enlisted folks?
David Robinson is the biggest (literally) in recent years.
the academies are sort of trying to move away from this to ensure all graduates serve their 2 years...though i am sure something could be worked out to serve part time in the reserves during the offseason.
but its a case by case assessment i think
5 years… not 2
Keenan Reynolds comes to mind as another guy in a similar situation 4-5 years ago.
Definitely not the first… some more recent examples:
Malcolm Perry (Miami Dolphins)
Joe Cardona (Patriots)
Keenan Reynolds (formerly of the Ravens and Seahawks)
The problem is that the decisions typically reside with the Secretary of each service and are inconsistent from service to service and secretary to secretary.
As other responses note, there have been many examples of service academy graduates playing pro ball. FWIW, the decision to allow pro play swings between two poles:
• Not going pro till after they serve: they got the same education as their peers, and should have the same service requirement, no exceptions. For instance, an electrical engineering grad couldn't opt out of serving because of a great business opportunity with a start-up.
• Going pro before service: athletes' public prominence has 2 benefits for the Army, Navy, Air Force. First, it provides an ongoing advertisement for military service. Second, it subtly adds to the recruiting pitch for players out of high school, that they if they develop enough in college, they can turn pro even out of a service academy, and reserve their service till later.
I'm not sure how any of this figures in being cupcake opponent for Notre Dame football.
OP missed a detail - I believe he meant to ask if Kinley is the first to go pro and play before fulfilling his service requirements.
Others mentioned David Robinson, who served 2 years after graduating from USNA before joining the NBA.
Others mentioned Keenan Reynolds who did, in fact, go directly to the NFL after graduating from USNA, although he apparently continues to serve in the US Navy Reserves (and is now an associate at Goldman Sachs).
Yes, you are correct. I was more curious about the approval process, and whether other athletes from service academies had to go through the same process. I was unaware that there even was a process and thought it was easy enough to postpone service until after the professional sports career or that there might be other ways to serve that could co-exist with a sports career.
They allowed a LB attend camp for Millen and the Lions thinking he wouldn't make the cut. When he did they recalled him.
Caleb Campbell might be said chap.
Is he the first? Not even close. I'm sure you have to go back a ways, back when the service academies were powerhouses, there were a ton. Roger Staubach immediately comes to mind. Keenan Reynolds I think played a game or two in the league a few years ago (was a standout QB from Navy), but I think he's out of the league now.
I'm curious what anyone on this board who is active or former military thinks about this decision. I never served so my opinion doesn't carry much weight, but I'm surprised the powers-that-be wouldn't have pushed back more and said "We don't care about the NFL. You made a commitment, now go honor it." What happens if Kinley actually makes it in the league, does well, earns a spot on the team, gets a multi-year contract, etc.? The odds are against him on that, sure, especially for a team fresh off winning a Super Bowl that returned all of its starters, but stranger things have happened. If he, in that situation, decided to try and opt out of his Naval commitment, what happens then?
I imagine at the very least he has to pay back the tuition he used during his time in Annapolis, but I'm not experienced on the subject so I'm curious what anyone else thinks.
As a vet, it doesn't really bother me so long as he is required to honor his commitment when his playing days are done. He was placed on the inactive reserve list, so he can be called back to duty at any time, regardless of his NFL contract status (the Navy will not need an inexperienced Ensign to come back to the fleet in any emergency - they are a dime a dozen, can't do anything on their own, and nobody respects them anyway). If he gets injured to the point that military service won't work out, then he should have to pay back the money expended on his behalf. That may sound harsh, but the American people paid for his education to help protect us - we deserve some return on that expenditure.
Some people whine that a graduate just can't go off to a good business opportunity, but business opportunities don't require peak athletic performance in your early adult life. So spare me that argument... If an academy grad qualified for the Olympics, you bet they'd let the person train and attend the Games - as well they should. If a promising engineering student had the inside track on cold fusion, an assignment to one of the many nuclear research labs would surely be found.
Former Air Force, let them play pro ball. It helps recruiting, it's good PR, and its a point of pride that someone from the Academies is playing pro football.
Given the services go from kicking a bunch of experienced people out through Reduction in Forces and then suddenly panicking and recruiting a ton of new people in continued cycles, the whole "They made a military commitment" argument holds almost no weight with me and pretty much all of my classmates(USAFA grad) feel the same way.
Napolean McCallum is another example that the Navy worked with, to some degree. After his Middie graduation, he was assigned to a skate supply officer position in Alameda, so he could moonlight with the Raiders. But then they transferred him to some big ship in the Indian Ocean because they didn't like the attention he got with the Raiders. He was out of football for a few years, until his service contract expired.
He later received a kickoff and had his knee fold completely, unrelentingly, sideways when tackled. It was worse to watch than was Joe Thiesman's broken leg. He never played again...
I grew up a Raiders fan(until Lane Kiffin/JaMarcus Russell cured me of that particular affliction) and remember watching that game. Awful, awful, awful, and they showed it on replay. I will never understand that particular choice of the broadcasting team.
The main issue is it is all so arbitrary and the rules constantly change. It started out as you have to serve your full service commitment(Staubach, a Naval supply officer and Hennings, an A-10 pilot who got out after five years and not nine thanks to a reduction in force).
Then thanks to David Robinson it switched to: If you had a pro contract you had to spend two years on active duty on a cupcake assignment and would get time off to go to camp. In the Air Force this was usually accomplished via the "Gold Bar" recruiter program where you worked as a recruiter in heavily minority areas as a 2Lt. And then you switched to serving in the reserves. This was the regime that my classmate, Bryce Fisher, went into the NFL under and he played for several years in the NFL.
Then they changed the rules again and made it up to be a waiver at the discretion of the Secretary of the various services and that's when everything went to hell, because at that point it went from an understandable process(albeit one in which some patience was required) to hoping the powerful person in charge of your fate was in a good mood that day. This Navy Cornerback caught them on a good day, Jalen Robinette, a receiver for Air Force in the mid-2010's caught them on a bad day.
FWIW, I'd prefer a system in which if you have a pro contract and are drafted you automatically get put into the reserves with a lengthened service commitment. If you don't make the squad or decide to retire from sports you can then try to convert to active duty from the reserves the same way everyone else has to. Simple, easy, and everyone gets what they want. But then some tightwad Major in personnel can't point to having drafted a new policy and can't get an OPR bullet out of it and so that idea is doomed to failure.
Napoleon McCallum spent his first year out of the Naval Academy playing for the LA Raiders (behind Marcus Allen) while fulfilling his duty on a ship in Long Beach. The Navy (evidently?) did not like the arrangement sending him to the Indian Ocean for year two.
I'm wrapping up a deployment as a civilian researcher (no, really), and one of the officers I've run into is Lieutenant Commander Shun White, who still holds Navy's single-game rushing record. He got permission to camp with the Patriots - sadly, it didn't work out, but he's doing alright for himself out here - good guy.