OT: Scandal in the Chess world
Grandmaster likely to have used vibrating anal beads to receive AI-derived moves remotely from his coach. Nonchalantly defeated world champion Magnus Carlsen, among others. I'd link it, but it's much more fun to google "chess anal beads".
Had to check and make sure this wasn't April 1st and, for the old crowd here, a contemporary Sid Finch story.
Let the metaphors commence.
October 5th, 2022 at 9:35 PM ^
Need an immediate hetero football analogy- Ryan plays checkers- while Jim plays chess….
October 5th, 2022 at 11:24 PM ^
Jim plays chess while Ryan Day shoves vibrating anal beads up his ass.
October 6th, 2022 at 1:11 AM ^
Yes, Day learned that trick from scumbag Zach Smith.
October 6th, 2022 at 4:28 PM ^
This would make sense for Day since so many osu fans wear anal beads around their necks during games. Maybe one lucky fan gets to add Days' 'bead' to their necklace.
October 5th, 2022 at 11:33 PM ^
This actually reminds me of the concurrent cheating scandal going on in the world of Poker with Garrett Adelstein and Robbi Lew in which Lew calls Adelstein w/ a Jack high thinking he had an Ace high on a 270k hand confusing everyone at the table and the announcers.
https://sports.yahoo.com/did-she-or-didnt-she-breaking-down-the-cheating-allegations-and-269-k-hand-rocking-the-poker-world-223234800.html
The question I ask is are these people really cheating or just playing in such a stupid/out of meta fashion that really high level players aren't used to it thus end up losing because they're baffled.
October 6th, 2022 at 1:03 AM ^
wow, I didn't know about that poker story, just spent 45 minutes watching and reading about it. thanks for sharing.
October 6th, 2022 at 9:24 AM ^
I am sure Robbi had a vibrating AI device planted in her fake boobs or mega-botoxed lips.
Having watched the video multiple times, I do believe she cheated. But proving it may be very difficult.
October 5th, 2022 at 9:37 PM ^
I know this guy will be the butt of many jokes, but he's legitimately good at doubling his rooks in the A-file.
October 5th, 2022 at 9:37 PM ^
I think the anal beads were debunked. But the cheating is still very likely.
October 5th, 2022 at 9:42 PM ^
Can you really ever debunk anal beads?
October 5th, 2022 at 9:48 PM ^
Surprised it leaked. Can't believe the story came out either.
October 5th, 2022 at 10:19 PM ^
This strategy must have given him a good run... Of victories
October 6th, 2022 at 12:21 PM ^
Debunk anal beads? Would I ever want to? Asking for a friend.
October 5th, 2022 at 9:46 PM ^
I don't think it was so much debunked as it was there was never any evidence for it in the first place. The original accuser made the accusation of cheating but didn't say how. Someone else wildly speculated that vibrating anal beads could be a possibility and the press ran with it
October 5th, 2022 at 9:49 PM ^
It was dislodged. Not debunked.
October 6th, 2022 at 8:34 AM ^
That someone else was retweeted by Elon Musk's dumb ass. He has a million other dumbasses drinking up his every emission on Twitter so that theory got lodged in the collective colon.
October 5th, 2022 at 10:16 PM ^
So I’ve followed this scandal fairly closely and, if you’re actually interested, this is essentially how it played out:
Magnus Carlsen (best chess player in the world) is defeated by a young up and coming GM named Hans Niemman in an over the board match in a tournament. Magnus withdraws from the tournament and makes a veiled accusation about Niemman cheating.
Niemman gives an interview soon thereafter where he discusses the game he played against Carlsen and admits that he cheated in online chess games where no stakes were involved when he was younger (he said when he was 12 and 16, Niemman is currently 19-20ish).
A few days later, Niemman and Carlsen match up again in another tournament, this one taking place online where Carlsen makes one move and then resigns the game. This basically confirms that Carlsen suspects Niemman of cheating.
Then a few days after that Carlsen releases a statement that basically says he believes Niemman has previously cheated much more than he admitted to in his interview and that he is suspicious of the game Niemman played against him and the meteoric rise of Niemman’s FIDE rating.
Niemman at this point has denied any accusations of cheating when playing over the board.
Then, Chess.com which is the largest online chess site in the world, says they are putting together an investigative report to prove that Niemman cheated much more often and in high stakes games (with money or against top players) than he let on in that interview from a while back.
Finally, today, Chess.com made this report public and it showcases at least 100 proven instances of Niemman cheating in online games on chess.com that included games in tournaments for money and game played against top players. Something that the chess.com report also makes very clear is that they have zero evidence of Niemman ever cheating in over the board chess. I believe there is an official FIDE investigation ongoing that is reviewing Niemman’s past games and their anti-cheat measures for all over the board chess tournaments.
TLDR: Niemman has been proven to have cheated at least 100 times in online chess games on chess.com but has never been proven to have cheated in over the board chess.
If you read all this, thanks I guess.
October 5th, 2022 at 10:20 PM ^
You left out the anal beads
October 5th, 2022 at 10:24 PM ^
Well I’ve never put them in myself…
October 6th, 2022 at 12:16 AM ^
Who did it for you? Asking for a friend.
October 6th, 2022 at 5:29 AM ^
Here's a security guard checking for them waving the detector over Niemann's, um, intergluteal cleft:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2byQ2Y-M0ZE
October 6th, 2022 at 9:11 AM ^
OMG! I thought you were naturally linking to something obscene and unrelated (which is why I clicked). But it's the real deal. And look at his smugly tranquil face. What more proof do you need that he's packing a full rectum? Clearly guilty.
October 5th, 2022 at 10:38 PM ^
That is the story, and it is a good recap.
But I would take issue with the word “proven.” There is a degree of statistical evidence that he cheated in online games, but that’s it. And with players who play at this level - they WILL very often play the same moves the best chess engines do. They are just that good.
(I say all that as someone with one of my degrees in stats - I know stats can often be extremely strong evidence. But I’m less convinced here)
I personally would like to see some physical - as opposed to statistical inference - proof of this cheating, both online and OTB. And as for OTB - specifics on the how?
October 5th, 2022 at 11:11 PM ^
Very good point thank you, I should have been more precise with my language. Was just trying to give the most basic and “quick” summary I thought possible. The actual quote from the report is that they found Niemman “likely cheated in over 100 online chess games, including several prize money events.”
As for the ‘how’, the chess.com report gives broad descriptions of their cheat detection methodology and procedure on their website. It’s a combination of statistical analysis and human review. As for OTB, the chess.com report is entirely focused on a statistical review of Niemman’s previous play in comparison to his peers. I highly doubt any physical evidence of OTB cheating will be presented and so this scandal will drag out until Niemman is either blacklisted or admits to any cheating (if it occurred).
October 6th, 2022 at 8:19 AM ^
So they're basically going with the Dream cheated in Minecraft speedruns proof of cheating? Like it's statistically unlikely that he didn't cheat?
October 6th, 2022 at 1:20 PM ^
I read that the analysis included a compare/contrast of moves a human would make vs what a computer would make in what amounts to the perfect move for each move in the game. The best players ever make the perfect move ~70% of the time whereas computers are in the 90’s. Niemman rated in the 90’s, hence the conclusion that he cheated.
October 6th, 2022 at 12:04 AM ^
They are able to correlate his browser toggling with improved move accuracy. What other explanation can you have for such an observation? It would be highly unlikely that you always make the top engine move when you toggle. Plus he has already admitted to cheating but claimed it was only twice.
I agree that for OTB probably needs more proof. It is a little alarming that in the post game interview, after beating Magnus, he doesn't really understand the positions he is playing.
October 6th, 2022 at 8:48 AM ^
You’ll never get hard proof but from the interview after the game niemann couldn’t explain his thought process in the moves he made to win. It feels pretty clear he was cheating
October 5th, 2022 at 11:18 PM ^
Chess.com did not prove he cheated 100 times, just that the analysis shows a high likelihood (moves match with what AI would do).
I don't think he cheated with Carlsen in the same way, it was likely getting Intel on Carlsen's prep. It's highly suspicious that Neimman tried to claim he just happened to study up on Carlsen's opening from when he last used it, when Carlsen had never used it before. I think taken together with Neimman's cheating history, his coach's cheating history, and the number one player in the world willing to stake his reputation to call him out, it's highly, highly likely that he did cheat over the board as well.
October 6th, 2022 at 12:06 AM ^
If Carlsen thinks that - Hans had a mole in his camp and “stole” his opening - he should say THAT then.
I don’t know - I suppose I’m on Hans’ “side” here but Carlsen’s own behavior hasn’t been the best. He’s a known sore loser. He’s beating around the bush with his accusations. And it’s worth mentioning that chess.com currently has a ($82MM!) offer out there to buy “Play Magnus” —- this is hardly a disinterested third party producing this report on Hans.
Carlsen is the best known chess personality since Kasparov - but honestly this whole incident has soured me a bit on him. I’d like him to be more direct with his accusations, or either just shut up about it all and move on. (Kasparov himself generally agrees with that, FWIW)
October 6th, 2022 at 10:51 AM ^
An accusation of cheating should be backed up by an explanation of how the cheating occurred. But neither Carlsen nor anyone else has offered a plausible explanation of that for Niemann's over-the-board games. (The beads suggestion was just a ridiculous joke, not made by any serious figure in the chess community.) Niemann's rapid improvement is suspicious, as is his inability to explain what he was thinking during key moments in a game against Carlsen--but accusation should have an explanation of how he cheated, and that hasn't been offered by Carlsen or anyone else who's accused Niemann.
October 6th, 2022 at 9:04 AM ^
You left out the fact that, after defeating Carlsen, Niemman proceeded to lose his next several matches in the tournament. So did he quit cheating? Or was he exceptionally sharp against Carlsen?
October 6th, 2022 at 9:17 AM ^
how did chess.com prove he cheated in 100 games? what sort of abnormalities did the find in those specific matches?
Edit: I see other explanations in this thread now.
But a follow up question/thought. What if constantly cheating in online matches allowed him to sort of learn the AI tendencies? Instead of studying great sequences by past champions you're effectively studying and trying to emulate the AI. That would help in the OTB games I'd think.
October 6th, 2022 at 10:59 AM ^
The thing is, others play against bots for training (on chess.com or other chess sites). But they don't show similar improvement enabling them to beat elite players.
October 6th, 2022 at 10:43 AM ^
TLDR: Niemman has been proven to have cheated at least 100 times in online chess games on chess.com but has never been proven to have cheated in over the board chess.
If you read all this, thanks I guess.
That's why the tl;dr, by definition, goes up front.
Thanks for explaining.
October 6th, 2022 at 11:30 AM ^
"A few days later, Niemman and Carlsen match up again in another tournament, this one taking place online where Carlsen makes one move and then resigns the game. This basically confirms that Carlsen suspects Niemman of cheating."
This was the biggest chump move I've seen since Dr. Phil kicked his alter ego off his show after inviting the guy on.
October 6th, 2022 at 1:01 PM ^
There are no winners, only losers in this situation.
Chess suffers because this is the wrong type of publicity for a sport that actually got a lift during COVID due to a spike in on-line play and the Queen's Gambit. It has been tough already to get sponsors for major events and this doesn't help.
Carlsen, a really great player, could have handled things better.
Niemann, a rising young US player, is a sad situation.
The graphic in the WSJ report that was really interesting was that he far surpassed other prodigies (age 11-19 years) for rise in strength - beating Bobby Fischer's record by a substantial amount. Is it proof of anything? Maybe not, but Fischer we know developed in an era before computers were strong enough to help anyone and he essentially devoted his whole life to improving his play at the cost of everything else, so he sets the bar for prodigy obsessive development. Others come close, including Carlsen, but none surpassed it by such a wide margin.
Chess.com has no methods of assessing over the board (OTB) cheating so not surprising they can't really comment.
October 6th, 2022 at 1:40 PM ^
https://www.chess.com/blog/CHESScom/hans-niemann-report
The chess.com report jdraman mentions. I don't see it linked below either.
Nothing to add really other than Niemann is a great player, who developed unusually late and fast. Given that development... there is nothing like this in football. Kids have growth spurts, but this would be like pulling Rodman out of janitorial service to play in the NBA. I don't think there has ever been a story like this where a 25 year old jumped into the NFL to compete on such a high level as Niemann is now. There's a lot of chess work to be done early to get where he is. He didn't do it conventionally, but Covid changed chess like few other sports - it saw a renaissance in all age participation, and we are likely to see odd results.
A couple graphs showing his trajectory. The report is as jd says and is worth the read.
October 6th, 2022 at 8:04 PM ^
I read that strong statistical analysis repudiated the thought that he cheated above board. A Dr. Regan, who has a good reputation on catching chess cheaters, determined he did not cheat based on his methods.
October 6th, 2022 at 9:00 AM ^
This is the West, sir. When legend becomes fact, print the legend.
October 5th, 2022 at 9:38 PM ^
“He’s ass, my dude….”
- Tathan
October 5th, 2022 at 9:39 PM ^
NFL experimenting with this technology to replace the green dot helmet
October 5th, 2022 at 10:01 PM ^
Zach Smith was ahead of the curve at OSU. I knew those sob’s were cheating.
October 6th, 2022 at 8:24 AM ^
I was thinking we could use it to call stunts on the d line.
October 5th, 2022 at 9:43 PM ^
And people put weights in their Walleye to win prize money.
Integrity is getting harder to find. It’s a pretty sad state of affairs.
October 5th, 2022 at 10:03 PM ^
“And people put weights in their Walleye to win prize money.”
And beads in their brown eye apparently.
October 5th, 2022 at 11:20 PM ^
“And people put weights in their Walleye “
Kids these days and their slang for “I put vibrating beads up my butt”
October 5th, 2022 at 10:03 PM ^
I put weights in my rusty starfish and I have plenty of integrity.
October 5th, 2022 at 10:52 PM ^
Ya but you’re a marsupial. Not that is doesn’t count.