OT: Mike Hart will apparently not be ND RB coach

Submitted by WichitanWolverine on January 27th, 2019 at 11:18 PM

The job has apparently gone to Lance Taylor.

Not sayin', just sayin'...

Mr Miggle

January 28th, 2019 at 1:44 PM ^

A serious question for Hart or any other RB coach, how do they move up in the ranks beyond being a RB coach?

Hart could move to a higher profile program, sure. But how often do RB coaches become OCs or HCs? Let's be honest here. How would this board have reacted if Gattis had been Alabama's RB coach instead of the WR coach? 

At some point he may need to go back to a school like EMU, taking a pay cut to be the OC. 

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CaliforniaNobody

January 28th, 2019 at 11:14 PM ^

I get your point, but Gattis was co-OC, and with us, we have had plenty of rushing success, so a RBs coach would be disappointing for us, but maybe a team with running struggles would feel differently. Also, becoming a RB coach at a major school like ND is definitely a way to become OC at a smaller school before moving up from there. 

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BroadneckBlue21

January 28th, 2019 at 7:42 AM ^

Michigan has more YPG, stronger secondary rushers with better YPC, and Jay Harbaugh can recruit. What exactly makes Hart an upgrade, other than homerism?

There has not been a drop off since Wheatley left. 

Who exactly has made a name under Hart’s guidance among his stops at Syracuse and WMU? His freshman this past year was good, but nobody behind Scott played much or played well—looking at their stats. Meanwhile, Harbaugh helped develop Tru Wilson into a viable third option. 

Oh, and Jay was the primary recruiter for one Zach Charbonnet, so please stop. Coaching and playing are two different things. Those of us who played know this. 

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saveferris

January 28th, 2019 at 7:56 AM ^

Coaching and playing are two different things.

I'll go further by saying that if people's perception to Hart's credibility as a coach is his playing career at Michigan, then that is the definition of specious reasoning.  Being the career rushing leader at Michigan is a laudable achievement but it belies his limitations as a player.  Elite level college players never stay in college long enough to set career records.

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saveferris

January 28th, 2019 at 11:16 AM ^

First, I never referred to Hart as a "loser", so I'll thank you not to put words in my mouth.  Second, four of the five players you mentioned that have more yards than Hart in college won the Heisman trophy and three of them played in an era where the only reason they probably played through their senior year is because the NFL didn't draft underclassmen (Walker circumvented this by signing with the USFL after his Junior year); so I really don't know what point you think you're making.

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Chiwolve

January 28th, 2019 at 1:41 PM ^

Let me make it easier for you. I am responding to your comment - "Elite level college players never stay in college long enough to set career records."

True, some of those great players I previously mentioned did not have a viable alternative to playing all 4 years, but just basic research and knowledge of college football would show how wrong your quoted statement is.

Also, if you concede that earlier generations of players did not have as much opportunity to leave early, then Hart's accomplishments become even more impressive (without even accounting for the fact that teams used to run the ball a significantly higher % of plays - and have higher distribution to 1 featured back).

You could have simply made the point that playing success does not correlate and/or translate to coaching success and I would have absolutely agreed. But taking a subtle shot at one of the best players to come through Michigan and how his accomplishments should be viewed as less than is unnecessary and distracts from that argument.

 

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Watching From Afar

January 28th, 2019 at 11:18 AM ^

Michigan has more YPG, stronger secondary rushers with better YPC

Not arguing for or against Jay Harbaugh here, but Michigan has had significantly more talent than Indiana in Hart/Harbaugh's overlapping tenure as RB coach at their respective schools. Not only at RB, but along the OL as well.

Hart has been at EMU, WMU, and Syracuse. None of those schools have even remotely similar talent to Michigan but he has continued to ascend the latter of programs and conferences. Stevie Scott was pretty impressive for a generic 3 star true freshman at Indiana this year. Again, I'm not saying that Hart should replace Harbaugh, but pointing to these stats doesn't paint a full picture.

There has not been a drop off since Wheatley left.

This is kind of hard to parse because the OL in 2017 was pretty bad, but the RB talent was significantly better than it was under Wheatley (Smith had a very hard ceiling). The RBs were significantly worse at pass protection and missed a ton of cuts in 2017. 2018 was significantly better but a lot of that was due to the OL not being in shambles. 2019 is again going to be weird because the lead back is not built to play in Michigan's offense as we've seen it executed up to this point. Though the OL should be a strength this year.

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JPC

January 28th, 2019 at 11:47 AM ^

Good take. I don’t know if Jay is good or not, but I do know he’s never had a job working for someone who wasn’t either a blood relative or a good buddy of a blood relative. 

The way some of these homers act, you’d think Alabama is trying to hire Jay. In reality, there hasn’t even been a hint of external interest in him.

Schools like ND aren’t sniffing around for him and they are for Hart. Only the blindest homer would discount that fact. 

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Watching From Afar

January 28th, 2019 at 12:52 PM ^

Yeah, again, I'm not arguing for or against Jay Harbaugh on the whole. He has done... fine? I mean, I don't have a big problem with how the RBs have performed since he took over the group in 2017. They haven't been gangbusters, but they haven't been terrible and have had to deal with some uninspiring play calling and rough OL production sporadically spaced over the last 2 years.

That all being said, he has been given a pretty significant advantage as a coach when it comes to personnel. Even when he was TE's coach, he was coming into a good situation with an experienced and talent group led by Jake Butt. Guys like Hart have started at EMU who was laughable as a football program.

And even after Butt and Higdon I didn't see his name floating around anywhere. Maybe it's because he's working for his dad and people don't even want to bother because they don't think he'll leave. Maybe it's because he still hasn't been with a specific position group for more than 2 years. Could be due to a bunch of different reasons.

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JPC

January 28th, 2019 at 1:37 PM ^

A lateral out from under his Dad's wing would seem highly desirable, if he's interested in proving that he's worthy of getting a promotion from someone not named "Harbaugh". 

Coach Harbaugh has hired some great coaches at Michigan (coaches that we've either lost, or had to fight to keep) and a couple less than great coaches (who we had a lot of trouble getting rid of). I think people would be more comfortable thinking that Jay was a good one, if there was some external interest in him. 

With all that said, I don't think anyone is suggesting that Jay sucks (his recruiting is pretty good and the RBs didn't look lost). Only, that he might not be the best guy we could get. 

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Watching From Afar

January 28th, 2019 at 2:14 PM ^

AJ Williams turned into a functional TE under Jay.

Ehh. A grand total of 12 receptions for 130 yards as TE2 in a system that gives plenty of opportunities to at least 2 TEs (and sometimes 3). He was hardly used as a receiving threat under Hoke, but he didn't go crazy or anything a year later. Not a great indication of Jay's coaching chops. Again, not saying he gets 0 credit, just saying that wasn't an impressive feat that makes us all take notice.

As for pursuing other jobs, I'm not looking at it from a Jay perspective as much as I'm looking at it from an outside Michigan perspective. If the information has been spread to other schools that Jay won't leave Michigan for a similar job as he has now with his father, I get that. But that information seems more like a perception by us rather than actuality. No other program (to my knowledge) has really pursued him for anything. Again, if that's because other schools are aware he won't leave for anything less than an OC job, that's fine. But lacking that knowledge, it's interesting that no one has kicked the tires.

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Mr Miggle

January 28th, 2019 at 4:42 PM ^

AJ Williams was a terrible blocking TE before Jay arrived. Read the old UFRs. He had OT size and that was a real surprise and disappointment.

How do you know that no one has asked Jay's agent to see if he was interested? If he wasn't, would we hear about it? He's in a tricky position to try to leverage flirting with another job into a raise like some others might do.

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Watching From Afar

January 28th, 2019 at 5:51 PM ^

The entire OL/TE group (hyperbole) was terrible at blocking prior to 2015 because they were being coached by idiots. Even with how average or worse the 2015 OL was, it was massively better than 2014.

And like I tried to heavily imply, I don't know the back door workings of coaching hires as they relate to Jay Harbaugh. We've never seen his name pop up for other jobs. Is it because, as you said, he won't take a lateral move out from under his dad (assuming he can only get a lateral move). Or, is it because no one is offering him because he doesn't yet have a good enough resume? Both are equally likely and I'd argue my side is even more likely than yours at the moment.

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Perkis-Size Me

January 28th, 2019 at 12:58 PM ^

I don't want to debate whether Hart should replace Jay Harbaugh. I'm not a savvy enough football mind to decide something like that. But I do know that at the schools Hart has coached at have resources and talent that are at a significantly lower level than what he'd find at Michigan, both from a RB and OL perspective and he's found good production from his backs at each of those stops. Hell, at IU this season he had a true freshman, Stevie Scott, run for 1100 yards. I seem to remember him playing pretty damn well on the road against Michigan this year. 139 yards and a TD. That says something about something. 

Yes, I'm aware that there were some injuries to players ahead of him on the depth chart so that had a say in the final result. But production is production, especially when you're a true freshman playing behind an OL that probably doesn't have a lot of talent. He also happened to be playing in likely the toughest, deepest division of football in America. And its not like Scott was some high four star or stud five star. He was your average, generic 2-3 star. To still have that level of production out of him, that tells me Hart can coach. 

That being said, Jay Harbaugh has done enough, in my mind, to warrant still having the job. Not his fault that the offense got slow and predictable, and Higdon played very well against teams not named OSU this year. Jay also played a hand in us landing Charbonnet, who is probably going to be our bell cow for the next 3-4 years. I think Jay's results will be even better next year with Gattis playing more to the team's strengths. 

But Hart will do well wherever he goes. He's already proven that. 

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