OT: Little Caesars arena replacing red seats with black...to disguise empty seats
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How did we get to this point? How did we go from championship appearances by 3/4 of the pro teams, to changing the seats in the brand new arena to black from red because nobody goes because the prices are ridiculous for terrible teams? This was really decided to be the best idea moving forward after some rich guys had a meeting? Amazing.
October 9th, 2018 at 4:22 PM ^
Another example of trying to obfuscate the problem rather than solve the problem. Have seen it many times during my career...at organizations of all types and sizes.
October 9th, 2018 at 4:25 PM ^
To answer the OP's question: Sports, man. That's what happens with every team. They all go through good and bad times. Welcome to sports.
The Red Wings need a major overhaul. This is, unfortunately, another bad stretch for that team.
October 9th, 2018 at 7:24 PM ^
Word. Get in on the ground level now. There’s help on the way and winning pieces already in place.
October 9th, 2018 at 4:28 PM ^
I really liked the look of the arena with the red seats, too. At least, from pictures; I haven't been yet. Black seats sound pitiful.
It's a thing, though. The closest seats aren't used every game, and bright colors really stand out. UMD has this problem at the hockey arena. They have an interesting color mix design, with mostly yellow seats closer in giving way to mostly maroon seats up top in a random pattern. But in practice when people are in the arena the yellow seats really stick out.
October 9th, 2018 at 4:29 PM ^
The red seats are super noticeable, they really stick out on tv. Especially during Pistons games.
Obviously putting a better product out there and filling the seats for (both teams) is the goal, but I think it's smart to do this as well.
October 9th, 2018 at 9:40 PM ^
Yes they do. Watching a wings game on tv it always looks like a lot of fans came disguised as empty seats
October 9th, 2018 at 4:30 PM ^
Lower ticket prices to put people in the seats. Problem solved
October 9th, 2018 at 4:43 PM ^
I agree, Better teams and lower prices fill seats, changing the color doesn’t.
October 9th, 2018 at 5:30 PM ^
But then how will they get the money to put in black seats?
October 9th, 2018 at 7:42 PM ^
Pistons used to give away free tickets and $5 tickets to fill 1/2 the Silverdome every game. Rowdy crowds make for better home teams. Modern GMs are bookkeepers and don't understand this.
October 9th, 2018 at 9:15 PM ^
You could get in with a coffee can!
October 9th, 2018 at 4:31 PM ^
Any chance that could also create more space in the upper deck seats while their doing renovations? I'm five foot seven, and I can somehow sit in my seat and touch my nose to my kneecaps without having to bend. Also, if you're over 115 pounds, you can forget about being able to get out of your seat during the game to use the bathroom or buy some snacks. There's just no room.
October 9th, 2018 at 5:36 PM ^
It takes a movie theater leather reclining seats with drink and food service to get me to go to a two hour movie. Why would an owner think it's ok to make people sit like you described? Ridiculous business decision.
October 9th, 2018 at 4:31 PM ^
The great majority of pro sports teams go through rises and falls. College is where you can sustain excellence.
October 9th, 2018 at 6:56 PM ^
Just ask Notre Dame
October 9th, 2018 at 7:00 PM ^
"Can" being the operative word. A school can also choose to hire Charlie Weis.
October 9th, 2018 at 4:33 PM ^
That story was almost too ridiculous to believe. The original seats cost $3.5M to install....and that was only a year ago!
I follow the Wings pretty closely and almost always purchase the NHL Center Ice package to watch them from out-of-state. I decided not to do that this year. I just couldn't justify spending the money (even though it's not that much in the larger scope of things) for the product that they're going to put on the ice this year.
October 9th, 2018 at 4:48 PM ^
Fox Sports Go app. All you need is someone's login who has FS Detroit. You're welcome.
October 9th, 2018 at 5:22 PM ^
I had not bought Center Ice the last few years because the team wasn't interesting to me. Old players, slow team. Not built to go anywhere once the regular season ended.
This year they may be bad, but it's fun watching the kids play. It's like the 1980s all over again. I don't know if these guys will make the playoffs this year, but it's fun watching them grow up.
$110 for NHL.TV to get a chance to see the next generation is worth it.
October 9th, 2018 at 5:51 PM ^
I would have skipped the Center Ice package this year as well, but my 9 yr old loves the game and I don’t want to squelch that, even if he’s cheering for Vegas instead. My dad also uses my login, so it’s worth it because he also loves being able to turn on a random game every night.
i don’t think I watched more than 15 games last season, and I don’t expect to watch that many this year either. :(
October 9th, 2018 at 4:38 PM ^
Maybe don't charge 100 dollars for the worst seat in the building to see a poor, rebuilding team. Or make the seats a different color. Yeah, the second one definitely seems most reasonable.
October 9th, 2018 at 4:40 PM ^
The NBA seems like a bubble to me. All these $100 million contracts with no fans in 80% of the cities.
October 9th, 2018 at 4:46 PM ^
The NBA has set attendance records for 4 straight years and is seeing better tv ratings as well. The NBA is considered by many people to be the best positioned league going forward because it lacks the negative physical impacts of football, is much more exciting and shorter than baseball, and has a ton of star power and potential international growth.
https://www.si.com/nba/2018/04/12/nba-sets-all-time-attendance-record-fourth-straight-year
October 9th, 2018 at 6:28 PM ^
I mostly agree with everything you say - except I'm possibly the only guy in the world who actually finds baseball pretty exciting. The drama inherent in every at bat, especially with 2 strikes, compares to a 3rd down for me. I think the beauty of dazzling fielding and the athleticism of a spot-on throw compares visually with an aerobatic drive to the rim or a leaping catch on the sideline. While basketball has momentum swings on every possession that are compelling, sometimes it feels like a marathon of points, and you're just watching to see "will this be close before they slow everything down in the last five minutes?" The pitch-to-pitch and out-to-out drama of baseball keep me engaged in a way that only football can do better.
But all that aside, I'm definitely more optimistic on basketball's future. I do think baseball has paths forward for international growth they haven't explored. And while I love football I expect the game to go through some hard changes before it gets a mass, international appeal.
October 9th, 2018 at 4:40 PM ^
How about a coke promotion - 2 tickets with each purchase!!!
/brandon'ed
October 9th, 2018 at 4:46 PM ^
And a flyover (although i really do find the flyovers exciting...)
October 9th, 2018 at 5:23 PM ^
especially over an indoor arena ;)
October 9th, 2018 at 4:45 PM ^
Wouldn't a couple of cans of Krylon be cheaper???
October 9th, 2018 at 4:57 PM ^
Johnny Bench approves
October 9th, 2018 at 4:47 PM ^
Hopefully the taxpayers are not paying for this stupid idea???
October 9th, 2018 at 4:49 PM ^
I remember the controversy over using hundreds of millions in tax revenue to build the arena. Money that was supposed to go to the Detroit schools, not that school funding is that simple.
I studied the issue of using public money for new stadiums. Owners want them because they can charge more for the suites (and have more suites with the latest amenities). But they always say it will increase attendance and create jobs.
However, attendance in every sport is linked to the quality of the team and the jobs from stadium construction are mostly temporary and often not filled by locals, meaning the multiplier from employment is much lower.
It's $100 for the cheaper seats now? Yeah. Not sure I'd pay that even if the team were good.
October 9th, 2018 at 5:07 PM ^
Generally, the only "benefit" to building a new stadium is that you avoid having the franchise relocate to another city. It's extortion.
October 9th, 2018 at 6:01 PM ^
The whole school funding thing as a very tired argument as relates to the Red Wings new Arena. The money came from the Downtown Development Fund which is completely separate from school Revenue. It is a fund that is set aside specifically for development of the downtown area. Period.
There was no money taken from the school systems to build that Arena. And as far as that goes I believe that a lot of it is considered a loan and the wings have to pay that back.
October 9th, 2018 at 7:09 PM ^
But John Oliver told me all new stadiums are evil.
October 9th, 2018 at 7:31 PM ^
It's not a tired argument. As I said, it's not simple. There's a piece of this agreement that returns the "loan" of tax revenue to preferred recipients like the schools. Not sure if all the schools that lost this funding get it returned, but since I mentioned Detroit's schools, they are included.
So there are essentially two money issues related (and this is a heck of a lot better than the situation in the '90s with most stadium construction). First, when you get this kind of access to funding, other sources can't obtain the lower cost loans. The stadium "cuts" to the front of bond funding line. So what isn't going to be funded because of this? This is 30 years of funding opportunity that will be replaced only at a higher lending cost.
And second, when you increase taxes in a DDA, for the health of the business community (and therefore the health of those who work there), are you buying something that actually helps as much as other possible uses of the money? Studies suggest a new stadium has less business impact than one retail block, but perhaps that's changing as the Amazon model gains more of a foothold.
There's a vanity value in having professional sports and pumping that into a recognizable metro area. That's something. It might not be much in the way of revenue, but the area itself benefits. There's a reason the Pistons didn't become the Auburn Hills Pistons when they were there.
Can't say much to the John Oliver argument. I know who he is, but I've never seen the show.
October 9th, 2018 at 5:02 PM ^
Maybe we thought we saw all of the red seats because Milford men were sitting there.
October 9th, 2018 at 5:19 PM ^
It's almost as if nobody wants to visit the city of Detroit. What a shocker
October 9th, 2018 at 5:34 PM ^
4 people per day get shot in Detroit (last I heard anyway). It's like betting on yourself whenever you go. Very exciting!
October 9th, 2018 at 5:41 PM ^
Yay gratuitous Detroit-bashing!
Just a few years ago the Tigers and Wings were drawing huge crowds. I guess, using this logic, the city was totally awesome and then suddenly got bad in the last couple of years?
October 9th, 2018 at 5:50 PM ^
Sorry. I forgot that we should all just sacrifice our own happiness for the sake of political correctness. Please absolve me of my sins of being honest.
October 9th, 2018 at 6:26 PM ^
I'll ignore your awesome red-herring digression into "political correctness" and just ask again: why did the Wings have a huge sellout streak and the Tigers attract 3 million fans just a few years ago? Did fans love the city then?
October 9th, 2018 at 6:35 PM ^
You're being ignorant. Big difference. If you spoke with knowledge, then you'd know those crimes you speak of are happening in neighborhoods miles away from downtown...well away from the highly policed entertainment district.
Using your logic, people are playing Russian Roulette by going to games in Chicago, St. Louis, Baltimore, Oakland...hell, any major city with a high crime rate.
October 9th, 2018 at 6:54 PM ^
You're putting words in my mouth, or possibly conflating my comment with another one. I said nothing about crime. All I'm saying is that there is very little reason to visit Detroit. The casinos and the professional sports are basically it (when they're good). My brother lived on Woodward, five minutes walk from the Ren Cen for two years after law school and I never enjoyed going down there to visit unless it was for a specific event. I'm not saying everyone feels this way, but many do, enough that the place is a virtual ghost town most of the time.
October 9th, 2018 at 7:48 PM ^
Look, you could put these stadiums in Birmingham or Royal Oak or Grosse Pointe Shores and their attendance wouldn't be much different. The most important variable, by far, is the quality of the team.
October 9th, 2018 at 7:56 PM ^
Plus the fact that complaining about "going to Detroit" because you're afraid of some random act of violence is pretty weak when one of the main criticisms from the Detroit residents I know is that the traffic flow in and around the arena district is designed to get you in off the freeway, then put you right back on it when you're done. You're pretty much not going to go anywhere else if you're heading straight to the arena. It's an overly-policed and traffic-controlled bubble. Just like the casinos, but to a more extreme degree.
There's a lot to be said for the fact that Detroit residents were offered a specific bill of goods with this arena, and the actual implementation was much, much different.
October 9th, 2018 at 7:53 PM ^
JFC have you been to Detroit since 1996? Hell, since 2016?
October 9th, 2018 at 8:04 PM ^
You're information is out of date. Downtown, from LCA to the river, has transformed over the last 5-ish years. Old buildings are being re-done, people are living and working and going out all over the place. For me, it's gone from ghost town (as you note), past fun, all the way to over-crowded. There are people visiting the city now as much as ever, and now there is actually something to do outside the stadium before or after the game, as opposed to drive, park, watch, leave.
As for the OP, changing the seat colors is a bad look but easy jokes aside, I think the problem is over blown. The stadium is new and has a lot of fun stuff to do outside the bowl. I have been for games where we walk around or sit at the bars on the outside for a majority of the actual gametime, and spend less time in the actual seats. The most-visible empty seats on TV, in the lower bowl, have access to a kickass club below, with food and booze. I would rather spend the time down there than in the seat too. Attendance could be better no doubt, but until there is a Wings or Pistons playoff game, you're not going to get everyone with a ticket to actually sit in their seats.
October 10th, 2018 at 11:27 AM ^
I recently came up for a 5 day vacation for the Michigan-Nebraska game and stayed in downtown Detroit with my GF. I am from Philadelphia and currently live in Austin, and all you hear about Detroit is how much of a cesspool is. My only previous interactions with Detroit were trips to the airport and then to Ann Arbor, so I had only stories to go off.
I always figured the people who spoke so ill of the city were exaggerating a bit, but I was prepared for something similar to Chester, PA or Camden, NJ on the scale of a large city - slums, massive homeless population, infrastructure in disrepair.
While, I am sure the city has some terrible parts still, we were both pleasantly surprised. The streets weren't too dirty, the highways weren't that bad for north east/midwestern standards, and the infrastructure in the areas we were in was most assuredly first world.
We walked all over downtown Detroit for the Red Wings, Tigers, and Lions-Pats SNF game and felt relatively safe the whole time. Sure, there were homeless people walking about, and some less than reputable looking personnel, but this is to be expected in any large city. Just pay attention, and you should be good to go. My GF loved the city, and even fell in love with the sports teams (poor girl also became a Lions fan, though. She has no idea the suffering that she is in for).
Although I know there are still major issues in other sections of the city, if the city is really putting forth the effort to "rebuild" the city, and I am solely judging them by their downtown, they are doing a great job.
October 9th, 2018 at 6:54 PM ^
I went to the Michigan-Northwestern game, but stayed in Chicago. If I was not dodging bullets, I was tripping over bodies. I am go to the Red Wings game at the end of the month. I guess I will be the same thing.