OT- Gordon and Villaneueva
Both players have flown out to Detroit this morning, and all indications are that they will both sign with the Pistons. How are the Pistons fans on this board feeling about this?
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-gordonvillanueva070109&prov=yh…
Dang the Pistons should try and sign Okafur and Josh Boone while they are at it. Sprinkle some Donyell Marshall and some Ray Allen in there and they would be the all UConn team.
this is the beginning of the off-season, and not the end, I am okay with it.
I like BG as a SG, and think he brings a much needed dimension to the team...namely the ability to create for himself. A backcourt of Stuckey and BG, with Afflalo and Bynum off the bench, is solid.
Charlie V is a great offensive weapon, but a defensive liability (but a pretty good rebounder). Unless we can manage to get a solid center to cover for him, I fear for our interior defense.
Best case scenario...we are able to deal Rip or Tay (or both?) for a solid big man, in which case I am happy.
Potential lineup (based on nothing but hopes and dreams):
PG: Stuckey / Bynum
SG: Gordon / Afflalo
SF: Prince / Sharpre / Daye
PF: Villanueva / Max
C: Chandler / Brown
Not great, by any stretch...but at least they are young and have some pieces. Overall, this MAY be a playoff team in the East, but definitely not a contender.
Not great is an understatement.
I'm a Bulls fan and wish he would stay, but won't cry myself to sleep if he goes. His best role is as a 6th man, or with a guard that can get him open shots. And in either role he's one of the best in the league, no question. I think he could be a devastating player if he were paired with someone in the backcourt like Kobe Bryant who constantly draws double teams.
I'm a Bulls fan as well and I can't wait until he signs on the dotted line with anyone other than the Bulls. Sure, everyone in Chicago is going to remember him averaging 25 ppg in the playoffs this past year, but he is an absolute liability on the floor defensively. He might score 30 or 35 in a game, but he'll give up 40 or 45. Look what a washed-up Ray Allen did against him in the playoffs. I thought he would end up somewhere out west like Golden State where they don't play defense, but Detroit might not be a terrible fit for him if they don't leave him on the court for too long.
i feel like johnny over at RBUAS - wheres my beloved pistons
BG fills a need. He can create his own offense, which the Pistons have been lacking. Not sold on Charlie V. I agree that defensively he is a liability, and his offensive production and rebounding are good, not great.
Unfortunately, a few tough years are ahead for this team. We will now see how good Joe D is as a GM.
being from Chicago, I have watched him extensively for many years and I was never that sold on him (although he was unstoppable in the first round of the playoffs this year). He can create his own offense, yes, and he can light it up from anywhere on the court. But he is streaky, super streaky. There was a reason he hit the bench in the first place (first in place of the Hinrich/Duhon tandem). He is a shoot first SG...has been, and probably always will be.
Joe D has nothing more to prove as a GM, AFAIC. He built a champion from scratch. We may be a little spoiled by all of those conference finals appearances, but I can still remember the decline of the Bad Boys and how bleak it was before Joe started building. The sign and trade of Grant Hill was brilliant; Atkins and Wallace helped bring the team back, and chronically-injured Hill hamstrung the Magic for seven years with his contract.
Stack for Rip was a great trade, too. I think the rest of the league stopped making serious trades with Joe because he was getting the best of too many trades, and consequently made only lowball offers that were as laughable as they were improbable.
Hopefully, they have gone back to underrating him because of the last couple of years.
I think he has one more championship team in him.
If we sign BG who do we trade RIP for? Do we keep Brown at center and try n get a few solid role players? Is RIP worth and Tyson Chandler or David Lee? Should we go after a Paul Milsap?
PG-Stuckey
SG-Gordon
SF-Prince
PF-Villaneuva
C-Brown? (has to be a trade C-FA suck this offseason)
I think that Ben Gordon is at his best when playing off the bench. I'd like the Pistons to keep Rip and use BG as a 6th man. Tay needs to go, I will always have much love for the guy but his time in Detroit needs to be over. If we cannot sign Turkoglu we have to try and go after Ariza or trade Tay for another SF. I think this is just the start of Joe D's plans. This team needs to get another big man, even with Chuck V we will probably be left with him, Kwame (eww) and JMax. I'd like to see them go after a center who is strong defensively, maybe make an offer for Chandler or Pryzbilla.
Good (if not great) in theory to keep Rip & BG. But BG is likely going to sign a big contract. So in all likelyhood they are trading Rip for someone.
but I would definitely like to see a dominant big man dealt to the Pistons. I'm not sure how big Villaneuva is, but I haven't heard anything from him recently, so I'm assuming he's not that good. Gordon can shoot really well, and I think he can be a solid player at Detroit.
I would definitely like to see a dominant big man dealt to the Pistons.
I think we all would, but teams that have dominant big men generally don't trade them.
Stay away from Ben Gordon. Not good defensively. At all.
+1,000,000!
Villanueva kicked ass on my fantasy team the last 2 years as like my 5th forward, so he's gotta be good.
I had him as well. He put together a couple of great games in the fantasy playoffs for me, so I can only assume that he is a legitimate piece to the championship puzzle.
The Pistons still need someone who can create for others. Stuckey can create for himself but is not great at what great point guards do: drawing attention and then dishing to the open guy, penetrating and kickick, etc... Selflessness and ball movement are what has made the Pistons great in the recent past (as in 04), but that's fading away.
While I appreciate Gordon's skills immensely (especially his ability to knock down some seemingly impossible shots), he's a me-first player that I don't think he will have a positive impact on his teammates' individual games.
Anyway, isn't this the same dilemma we had with Rip and AI on the floor at the same time? Are we considering trading Rip then? Maybe Joe D wants Gordon to come off the bench to replace Rip, but do we really want to spend 10 million a year on a sixth man?
The Gordon talk makes me think that Rip will get traded.
It's maddening that Joe can't see that Stuckey is NOT a point guard.
... to a certain extent. I want to see him play one more year at the point to be sure, but all signs point to this. If Stuckey can't transform into a pass-first PG who can create for himself when necessary, then having him and Ben Gordon in the same back court makes no sense at all. Of all the names out there, Charlie looks like the most likely since we can sign him for less money than Turk and we wouldn't have to trade Tay or Rip. If Gordon comes around, Rip is gone for sure, and if Turk comes then Tay is gone (both presumably for a big man). I just hope we don't sign all these players to big deals and hurt ourselves for next year, when Chris Bosh is available. I'd rather wait a year for him than sign Charlie or Turk. We'll see how it plays out I suppose.
People said the same thing about Chauncey Billups (which is why he bounced around the league so much at the beginning of his career). Sometimes it takes a player a few years to get the PG position down. It's too early to write off Stuckey as a PG.
Well, Chauncey isn't a classic PG. He's a PG in a small forward's body. Stucky, not so much. Honestly, I view Stucky as more a Vinnie Johnson type combo guard.
Whether or not he was a classic PG, the Pistons were able to win with him running the point. Billups never ranked among the league leaders in assists. The days of having five clearly distinguishable positions in the league are coming to an end. If the Pistons have good passers at other positions, it's not essential for Stuckey to be a "pure" point.
You're missing my point. Billups was able to abuse other guards because of his size. He didn't have to be a classic PG. Stuckey has no such luxury. He is not a PG and never will be, imho. The sooner Joe realizes this the better it will be for the Pistons organization moving forward.
If someone knows a thing about combo guards I'd have to say that it's Joe D. I like Stuckey's scoring ability and I hope the new coach utilizes Will Bynum, he showed flashes last season.
IMO, of the recent past. They are both BAD defensively. What happened to Joe D's recent statements that the Pistons had to get back to being a tough, physical defensive team? Given the money spent, it looks like, short of a major trade (which I hope for and don't discount), that they are mostly done restructuring the lineup. I hope not.
I definitely see either a big trade or a big signing coming. Although I'd like BG to play as a 6th man, with the amount I've heard talked about paying him that won't be happening. This means that either Rip or Tay will be moved. Probably Rip although I'd rather it be Tay. I can see them maybe trying to trade for Bosh although this is a risky move because he could just bounce after a year. I expect Joe D to do something drastic this off season. signing 2 meh FA's isn't drastic IMO.
The insane part of this is if we do sign Gordon and Charile then that would eat up most of our cap space but if Rip and Tay are traded for 1 year expiring contracts then we will be 20 million under next year to weigh in with the big boys. Someone like Marcus Camby for Tay and Mike miller for Rip and we are sitting with a core of
Stucky
Gordon
Daye/Miller/Summers/Swedish Guy
C-Vill
Camby
This year and
Stucky
Gordon
Daye
C-Vill
with 20 million of cap space next year. Crazy how much I love Joe Dumars. Please let him be as smart as me...please.
Well I'm pretty sure that Joe D knows a little bit about the game of basketball. I hope you're right too.
I like Charlie V because he's solid and it looks like he'll only cost about $7mil. On the other hand, Gordon is nice but $11mil for a 6th player doesnt sound cool, UNLESS they decide to trade Rip/Tay. No point in playing armchair GM when Joe D is the man.
Also am I the only one who doesnt think that the Billups trade was that bad? It was a given that the team wasnt making it past the ECF and were they going to beat Cleveland? The break up hd to happen eventually so he went ahead with it.
In Joe D I trust!
First off trade Prince to the Clips for either Camby or Kaman. They would kindly take Prince for either one. Sign Hedo T for 4 years at 11 mill per year. Sign B. Gordon for 8-9 mill per season and use the rest of the money (considering they have about 26 -the 19/20 we have in these two, we have about 6/7 mill left). to sign Villenueava. We could then use the mid-level exception (maybe) to re-sign dice.
Our depth chart would be
PG Stuckey, Bynum, Affalo
SG Hamilton, Gordon, Affalo
SF Turkoglu, Hamilton, Daye
PG VIllenoueava, Maxiel, Sharpe(Dice?)
C Kaman, Maxiel (Dice?)
No keep Prince trade RIP to get someone better than Kaman!
PG Stuckey/Bynum
SG Gordon/Affalo
SF Prince/Daye/Sharpe
PF Villueneva/Maxiel
C Milsap/Brown
If you offer BG $8 mil or even $9 mil I bet the Bulls match it in a heartbeat. That, after all, is the contract they offered him last year and he turned it down (and he was coming off a bad year). Turkoglu seems like he'd command more than 11 mil as well, but I'm no sports agent.
Thats a sweet avatar man! Where'd you get it from, it looks familiar.
C Vill? Really?
That was from pure laziness.
If you can spell that without looking more power to you.
Being a Bulls fan I will say I like BG's shot but not much else. He is a undersized guard who won't play a lick of D. He will also throw a tizzy if not starting. So this come off the bench stuff sounds logical but will he go along with it? I am ready to let him go as a fan. He played for himself in Game 7..
I'll bet stone, hard cash that the Pistons aren't paying him $11 million a year to play less than 30 minutes a game. So off the bench, starting, whatever.
It's not like Rip is a stopper. He was OK when asked to play the other team's 3rd best perimeter player with the backup of 2 of the best defensive big men in the game (the Wallaces). Unfortunately, he doesn't have that anymore.