I always liked Stoops, but this is disgusting. Apparently Dorial Green-Beckham has joined the Sooners. I'm all about second chances but isn't their another kid who deserves that scholoarship more?
to play football, not to play trumpet
Why, what happened? I'm out of the loop.
A couple drug charges, pound of marijuana, and apparently forced entry in which a girl was pushed down some stairs or something.
That is all
"UPDATE (2:00 p.m. ET): That was fast. Oklahoma coach Bob Stoops announced that Dorial Green-Beckham will enroll at Oklahoma and join the program immediately. According to NCAA rules, he won't be eligible until 2015.
“We are pleased to welcome Dorial to the University of Oklahoma, where he is excited to continue his education and resume his playing career,” Stoops said. “Dorial understands the privilege and responsibilities of representing the Oklahoma Football program. He is a talented young man who is eager to get to work with the rest of our team in the classroom and on the field.”
However, Jason Kersey of The Oklahoman is reporting that the school is pursuing a waiver to make him eligible for the 2014 season."
deny Ty Isaac's.
That would be fucked up and also not surprising. If that happens, Isaac should be all like "No, NCAA, I totally broke all kinds of rules at USC, but unlike at Missouri, they just never cared. Can I have my waiver now?"
Yeah, you must think Cam Newton is the biggest piece of shit as well.
I hope DGB fixes whatever is wrong with him and succeeds.
I hope he fixes whatever is wrong with him too, but there are still consequences for breaking the rules/law. I hope MIchigan never accepts a transfer from a kid like this.
Yeah because young men who have issues (likely due to being adopted) and are suddenly thrust into the spotlight should be condemned for the rest of their lives.
I will applaud Stoops if he gets this kid on the right path.
Just because a young man has issues, and DGB has certainly faced some unfortunate family issues in his young life, doesn't mean he should go through life near consequence free. He has multiple arrests, and most recently forced his way into an apartment and pushed a female down the stairs (no charges filed though). Only after that was he dismissed from Mizzou, and has seen no major legal consequences through all of this. No one's 'condeming' him; he's not going to jail for the rest of his life, even if OU didn't pick him up. But this just re-enforces to him that as long as he's a big time athlete he can do whatever he wants with very few consequences to his actions. That's a wrong message to send as well. Either way, I do hope he gets his life on track.
It should probably be noted that charges aren't being filed because the victim feared becoming a target due to DGB's high profile:
I asked Drayton why she no longer wanted to go ahead with prosecution and she stated that she was afraid of the media and community backlash since Green-Beckham is a football player...Drayton stated she was afraid of being harassed and having her property damaged just because she was the victim.
This is taken from the incident report, LINK.
The victims are often afraid to press charges in athlete committed crimes. That seems to be the reason Payne and or Appling got off.
The same thing may have happened in the Carlos Hyde case.
I'd much rather see a walk on at OU who's been busting his butt and staying on the right track get the scholarship.
Don't make excuses for him. He's 20 years old, not 14. He should know right from wrong at this point. Lots and lots of kids his age who have had as bad or worse upbringings learn how to stay out of trouble.
And no one has suggested he be condemned for the rest of his life. But life has consequences for those who screw up over and over. I just don't think he should get to play college football anymore.
Although he is 20 and not 14, he is still a young man, making plenty of mistakes. Plenty of young men make mistakes at that age. I believe most males don't fully mature until their mid-twenties (and even then plenty of people make really dumb decisions). Lots of kids his age who grew up in as bad of, if not worse, environments end up in far worse situtations or doing far worse things.
You're right that life does have consequences. However, he has already had to face some of those in being dismissed from his team of choice and university of choice in Missouri. As for screwing up over and over again, he has two marijuana possession charges that were dropped (with one being someone else claiming owernship-granted they could have just been falling on the sword) and a forced entry and battery. Yes those actions constitute breaking the law and are bad rather than good; however, the first two do not really shed that much light on his character (emphasize the that). Marijuana use and possession is quite prevelant in the United States, especially in Ann Arbor which includes the Michigan athletics. The vast majority of the time it is recreational and non-violent in nature, much like general alcoholic consumption. To draw a comparison, would you be as mad if he was caught possessing a 6-pack of beer or with beer in the car (without having drank any of it because DUI's are a whole other story).
Now, the forceful entry and battery situation represents a whole other story. It does tend to show a sense of entitlement or possible tendency towards violence. However, if we start condeming people based on one incident of that nature, we are going to have even more people in prison than we already do (which is a lot). As noted above, he was punished by Missouri by being kicked off the football team and losing his scholarship. Granted OU swooping in and offering him a scholarship tends to negate the punishment, but he still has to make a transition to a whole new school with people he does not know. If any of us had to transition to a whole new school as we entered our junior year, that would probably throw off our educational progress and thoroughly damper the college experience. Does that amount to sufficient or proper punishment? Probably not. However, DBG sounds like a kid who could use a degree and the stability of a college degree. I also hope that his time at OU helps provide him a little better direction. Edit: after reading the entire incident report, it does seem like battery/assault might not have been the first time something like this happened. As such, I am really hoping OU gets proactive in getting him into some other rehabilitative activities like counseling, community service, or other activities to get him to understand more about the consequences of violence against women, rather than just throwing him back out on the field.
All that being said, it seems a lot of the negativity really comes from the fact that Stoops and OU probably are not doing this out of altruistic notions but rather because they want an elite WR. Applying for the waiver doesn't sound like they really have DBG's best interests at heart but OU football's, which is quite frustrating. No reason to apply for the waiver. Give DBG a year to stay out of trouble, practice with the team, make new friends, and get back on track with school (obviously I'm assuming he is interested in this part, but I like to be optimistic). If Stoops gets him on the right track, then we really shouldn't be mad that OU gets the benefit of him at WR. After all, isn't this whole college football supposed to be a mechanism to allow kids to create better futures for themselves. I also hope DBG does well and avoids causing any more harm.
Yeah because stripping a kid of the one thing he does really well usually leads to success in said kid's life.
"I just don't think he should get to play college football anymore. "
I think that is a little extreme. He definitely should have to sit out at least a year, anything more than that would probably push him more towards a life of crime.
I could live with that. But sitting out "at least a year" is probably the same, since he's draft eligible in a year. And if college football is the only thing between this kid and a life of crime, then he needs a lot of help (which may be the case).
Some other type of rehabilitative activities would definitely be in order. Counseling, community service, attending seminars on the effects of violence against women, or maybe even some type of probation (would entail a criminal conviction which could further hasten his decline). Something to get him to wake up to his immaturity and thoughtless actions. You're probably right in that a switch to OU isn't going to do the trick, especially if he gets the waiver.
Sidenote: props to Missouri for being willing to take some action at the expense of the quality of football team it puts out this season.
His issues are far more likely to stem from having no father and a drug addict mother than from being adopted by his HS football coach and his caring and welcoming family that took him in.
Considering what they did for him, he's basically spit in their faces with his actions and behavior since he went to college. Sort of reminds me of Rumeal Robinson in some ways.
Jesus effing Christ you would have thought he committed murder or something.
He likes weed, he has some shady friends, he had ONE supposed incident that was 'bad'. Now everyone is ready to condemn him? This reminds me of everyone turning on Lewan. Our fan base is one of the worst.
I'm not sure why you keep using that word condemn, since no one is saying that but you. I think the consensus is that there should be some punishment beyond "you can't go to Missouri, you need to go to Oklahoma instead." A year of JUCO ball to work his way back up would be good, as would sitting out a year to think about things. Kinda like what happened with Everett Gholson from ND. Spend a year away from major college football so you can see how your actions have consequences.
You said he shouldn't get a second chance at college football and have already changed your tone. Thank you.
I'm of the assumption that once he's draft eligible, he's bolting. That's not because of his character, but because of his talent. Most kids jump at the first shot they have at the NFL.
So when I say he shouldn't get another shot at playing college football, that's because I feel he shouldn't get a shot at it "this year" which is his last year (I assume). If he sits out this year, and instead of going pro, he decides to stay in school, then I am absolutely in favor of him playing football as well.
You can absolutely help a kid "overcome his issues" without giving him a starting spot on a major program's roster. Stoops doesn't give a crap about Green's troubles because he's a good football player; add half a second to his 40 time and nobody would have even heard of him or even try to help. That's the problem here - he's a getting another chance (likely) not because anyone really will try to help him fix his very real social and judgment issues, but because they need a guy who can catch balls and help them win.
Michigan does and has had numerous players that use and possess marijuana. I can't think of Michigan accepting any transfers like this, but Michigan makes plenty of compromises to get talent out on the field. Need I remind you that Frank Clark was arrested and charged with second degree home invasion for stealing a laptop between his freshman and sophomore year. If I recall, the case was lingering in court, almost went to trial, and then was dismissed. Since then, I think Frank Clark has done a great job avoiding any other trouble and has been a great contributor to the Michigan football team.
Granted Michigan doesn't accept a lot of transfers so my comparisons is slightly different. Also, I think your biggest frustration is that it seems Stoops is just trying to boost the quality of his football team without really caring whether DBG is actually making progress towards refraining from any criminal activity. I think it would be properly stated that I hope Michigan doesn't make such a blatant talent grab without any care or consideration for whether it is the right move to make for the team, the university, and the Ann Arbor community. It will also be doubly frustrating and unfair if he gets the waiver and Ty doesn't.
I think the difference here is that Green has a history of these issues, and one school kicked him out for them. UM might give a guy already in the system more chances because they feel they have a better sense of the situation and how to remedy it, but I doubt you'll ever see a team like UM accept a transfer from a kid with this type of rap sheet.
You're exactly right about the transfer situation. I doubt Michigan would take a transfer like this situation. I would hope Hoke and all future coaches don't look to capitalize on tough situations like this. However, for players that the coaches already know and who are already in the program, the coaches will probably strive to give them as many chances as reasonably possible. All in all, I hope the situation has gotten DBG to recognize how he can change for the better. But we will see how it plays out.
or not becauise somepone posted one while I was typing mine. neg away
If Stoops wants to take the risk, and thinks he and his staff can provide mentors for the young man, more power to him.
Why should he be allowed on campus? Why would Oklahoma want him as part of the student body? He wouldn't be accepted into any major university with his criminial background if he wasn't a football player.
What criminal background? All charges were dismissed. I guarantee there are students with more of a criminal background attending school right now.
People with criminal records who have done less egregious things but didn't have the privilege of being a D1 athlete
How many second chance people have we at michigan taken in? More importantly, how man have we kept in?
Who's our 5th year punter? a guy caught smoking weed so many times he's on his third chance
Who's our glorious top-ten pick? A guy who perhaps kept a girl from talking about rape/sexual misconduct.
Do you have a family member who has smoked weed twice in their life? Should that person be disallowed from doing the thing they are best at in life? "Yes" say you. "Why the fuck?" say I.
Judge not, lest ye be judged. And I'm a life-long fan of michigan, so please, don't try this. "Oh, he's bad because he hit a girl." Without a doubt, that's wrong. Guarantee ou still like Lewan. Guarantee when the initial report about Gibbons came out, you said "it's just alleged, there's no proof." Well, same thing here: there's no crime on DBG's part except smoking. He hasn't been charged. And you and I both know this list on michigan players could go on.
I really think this guy has made huge mistakes (I honestly think he also hit the girl, too). But jesus fucking christ, get off your high horse. You had plenty of players in front of you to scream about, yet you chose to not say a word. Yet, this occurs to a team that you don't root for, and lo and behold, you cry "Blasphemy!"
I mean, I'm a michigan man too. I know that means we scream stupd shit like "we don't do that" but. . . I think you reallly believe it.
Why do they think they'll be able to get the waiver?
I hope they don't. I'm on the fence about how I feel about the transfer rules as it is, but it's really fucking dumb if a good kid who transfers for his own reasons has to sit out but a criminal who gets kicked off the team doesn't. "What's that? I have to sit out a year if I want to transfer? OK, then I'll just beat up this chick and I'm good to play this fall, right?"
he gets his waiver granted?!?!?!
I think it's interesting that DGB committed and joined the team during the dead period. How did that happen without talking with any coaches on staff? That's kind of weird.
Do recruiting rules apply to transfers too? I don't know the answer to that question, but it might explain it.
Follow-up: Does Oklahoma care about recruiting rules? I don't know the answer to that question, but it might explain it.
I thought any new player on a team, whether it be a high schooler or a transfer, had the same contact rules with the coach. But I may be wrong. The rules change so often it's hard to know for sure.
Just goes to show you that if you're talented enough, someone will always give you a, what, fourth or fifth chance?
Fast forward 6 months and the headline is going to read, DBG Dismissed from Sooners.
So let's say he doesn't get a waiver, has to sit out a year, and then declares for the NFL draft (all pretty likely, since the NFL is pretty cool with drugs and hitting women). Is Oklahoma then listed as his college, even though he never suited up for them?
I was going to ask the board if he was eligible for the draft after this year, but there's my answer. Why wouldn't he? Someone will take a chance on him in the first/second round I would think because of his size.
Yeah - he played 2 years at Mizzou so he's eligible for the next NFL draft.
No chance. Maybe in 4-6 though
I'd probably split the difference on that. He's got 1st round talent/potential, and had one pretty solid season at Mizzou. If he sits out and stays out of trouble, I bet he's taken in the 3rd-4th round range, at least. Most of the 1st or 2nd round WRs are total packages - talent, production, not much baggage. But with how many WRs most teams carry, he'll get picked up once the sure things are gone.
No Mizzou would be listed as his college. Josh Gordon's college is listed as Baylor although Utah was the last school he attended.
If he dosent get his trasfer waiver I doubt that he will voluntailry leave school and declare for the 15 draft. I don't remember anyone who transferred to a school to practice for a season and then voluntarily left for the draft before playing a down.
Hopefully he turns his life around. Everyone deserves a second chance.
I am pretty sure he is on chance number 3 or 4.
Wouldn't his second chance be after the first drug charge? A third chance after the second drug charge and this being his fourth chance.
It is cases like this that make me laugh at the term student/athlete. What college would allow a non athlete admission to their school given his criminal history. Maybe DGB is aiming to star in a new version of the Longest Yard.
What college would allow a non athlete admission to their school given his criminal history.
I think the answer is many. Some schools don't even ask about criminal history. As far as I know he has a trespassing conviction related to possessing a small amout of pot. That would disqualify him from admission at a handful of schools. The remainder of his criminal history is two arrests without any charges filed. That would certainly prompt many schools to deny admission, but in my opinion there are quite a few that would accept a regular student, but back away from a high-profile scholarship athlete.
What chance is Wil Hagerup on? Oh wait, I forgot, that only applies when we are taking about kids who play for other teams.
I had to explain to my nine year old what marijuana was because Hagerup manages to get himself suspended before every big game.
Hagerup, Gibbons, Lewan, Clark, Glasgow, Fitz, Stonum, Campbell, Robinson, Furman.
All at least given a second chance, or more.
I wouldn't bring up Gibbons, because it seems that once the school/team found out what really happened, he stopped playing. Same with Stonum, he was given one second chance, and when he couldn't handle it, he was gone. None of those other guys are multiple offenders, so far as I know. And you really shouldn't put Campbell on there. If he wasn't 300lb that wouldn't have even been a thing.
about Aaron Hernandez.
There's a point where they have to be held accountable so they learn what life is really like.
This is exactly right. Even though "giving someone a second chance" sounds like the right thing to do, in many cases that's the worst thing you can do for someone. When the second chance is given in place of punishment, as is the case here (in the event he gets a waiver), he might not learn anything from it. If you really care about the young man, you'll take something away from him so he learns that his actions have real consequences. Right now DGB may have the attitude "who cares if I screw up again because someone will want me" and who could blame him? That's probably the attitude I'd have if I were him.
If you really care about DGB as a person, you'll hope he is forced to sit out this next year. He can watch college football happen from the sidelines and he'll see that breaking the rules has repurcussions. If he stays on the straight and narrow, he'll still have the opportunity to play football at Oklahoma or the NFL the following year. And that will be his second chance.
We have officially compared a kid who likes weed and had one bad incident to Aaron fucking Hernandez. Congratulations for making the worst analogy on the internet, 2014. Your award is a lit bag of dog poo placed on your doorstep.
a year is a lot of time for him to screw up again.
Is Barry Switzer running Oklahoma again? The kid got kicked out of an SEC school. That's pretty dang hard to do unless you're not performing well.
I don't think that they will be applying for a waiver. His home state is Missouri. Instead of moving closer to home, he is moving farther from home.
That's only one reason to apply for a waiver, so although they won't be applying for that waiver, they will still absolutely be applying for one on different grounds. You can claim that his previous team won't allow him to play this fall so he shouldn't have to sit out. This is fucking stupid, but it has worked before with a kid who was kicked off LSU's basketball team, IIRC.
Sometimes people deserve punishment, not second chances. I certainly wouldn't be happy about this if I had a kid going to Oklahoma. Odds are this guy's going to be committing another crime or two while there, some other student, somebody's kid, is going to be the victim, all because Stoops wants to win an extra game with a criminal.
Disturbed that someone could downvote that, protecting criminals at the expense of innocents, good thinking anonymous guy.
It wasn't that long ago that our fan base was hoping that Demar Dorsey would make his way to AA.
His punishment is having to live in Oklahoma!
This kid has exactly one incident in his past that is actually disturbing (the forced entry), and as much as we can speculate terrible and awful things about that, no one here has any real idea of what really happened. It was probably bad, he probably should have faced legal consequences, but for a variety of reasons he didn't.
Other than that, he was arrested twice on possession of marijuana charges. Big. Fucking. Deal.
He faced legal and personal consequences from the pot incidents, and personal consequences from the violent one (again, I'm not arguing that he didn't get off a little light on that one), and yet I hear you all shout down to me from way up on your high horses that this kid is some sort of horrendous criminal who's never faced a consequence in his life. Seriously, someone above actually compared this situation to AARON FUCKING HERNANDEZ and got commended for it!
Get some perspective people. This kid had a horrific childhood, and suddenly became a major celebrity at the age of 16. Gary Pinkel actually flew a helicopter to his high school on a recruiting visit. Of course he's got entitlement issues, every single person in the world would if they were put in the same position.
DGB is a tremendously talented individual, and there's no reason to think that he can't grow to be a tremendous person as well. I wish him nothing but the best, both on the football field and off of it.
Thank you for being reasonable. So many glass houses being leveled with stones on this thread.
First of all, I completely agree he shouldn't be compared to Aaron Hernandez. And I'm not even sure if that's what the poster was doing or saying, as much as "sometimes when people get second chances in place of punishment you get poor results" more than comparing their actions.
Anyhow, his actions were pretty bad. Sure, weed by itself is not bad. I like it, kind of a lot. But when you have multiple weed-related offenses to go along with "alleged" violent behavior, that's a bigger problem. Such a problem, in fact, that the men closest to him felt he shouldn't be affiliated with their football program, even though he was the star. So although we don't know all of the facts, the people that know it best said "we don't want anyone like that associated with us." That's a strong statement.
So I'm not saying the guy needs to get thrown in jail or anything, but he is in need of some corrective action. It seemed he was getting that when he was booted from Mizzou's team, but if he gets the waiver to play immediately at OU, I don't think that's sufficient.
I think it's a fine line between making a direct comparison and using a hyperbolic example. You don't get to invoke Hitler every time a government oversteps its authority, and you don't get to invoke Aaron Hernandez every time an athlete has character issues. Doing so drastically lowers the level of discourse and pulls the conversation immediately toward the extremes, and away from the gray area where all the stuff that matters is.
That said, I don't really think we have super different feelings on this particular case. Maybe I'm a bit more bleeding heart, but I don't think by a whole lot. I just really did not like the tone that this thread was taking, it seemed to be a lot of angry people pushing each other to say angrier and angrier things, and straying very far from the matter at hand.
I like to think that this turn of events will be good for him, regardless of whether he has to sit out a year (and I think he probably will). He came to Mizzou as a symbol of newfound football greatness, their first true blue-chip recruit in the Gary Pinkel era. He will enter OU as a troubled transfer with nothing guaranteed and a lot still to prove. I hope that he adjusts well to being the low man on the totem pole for the first time in quite a while, and if he does I fully expect him to grow into a better adult and learn from his past mistakes.
exactly what I meant. All I meant was, considering his past, it may be better for him if he has to suffer a little instead of going to another school and playing immediately. As someone pointed out, this was severe enough that Missouri told him to go away. I think he needs to get his head together before he plays. That's for his own good.
I don't equate him with a possible mass murderer. Give me a break.
1. IIRC, he dodged a major bullet when one of the pot incidents didn't include an 'intent to distribute' charge
2. Can you imagine how nuclear ESPN and the like would have went if it was Urban Meyer giving him the chance instead of Big Game Bob?
Hagerup has never been arrested. It's all been violation of team rules which leads me to believe that it's weed or he has a drinking problem.
I always hate threads like this where people form strong opinions over guys we've never met. Remember when everyone said that Lewan started a fight with an innocent OSU fan when in fact the OSU fan was taunting everyone with a megaphone and Lewan entered in the fight only after his brother got attacked.
The reason why all we Michigan fans want the hammer dropped on this kid is that Mitch McGarry smoked dope once, and got suspended for a whole year, effectively ending his college career. Now Dorial Green-Beckham has smoked dope and done a lot more things that are far worse. However, he and his new school don't want him to sit out even the one season that is customary for a transfer, never mind the criminal activity. Of course Michigan fans think sitting this season is the minimum that should happen. This ain't rocket scientry, stop trying to pretend you're on some kind of moral high ground.
Consider the fact that the signing was announced at the very end of a big holiday weekend -- the media dead-zone, when far fewer people are paying attention to news reports. I doubt this was a coincidence. They just tried to sneak it past in order to limit backlash.