superstringer

March 7th, 2024 at 10:37 AM ^

Meh. It's like, Thanos blipped half of all living creatures, even though obviously within a few generations populations would just go back to where they were before the snap. Not a reason not to destroy a civilization to get the purple stone, torture your adopted daughters for the location of the yellow stone, go to war with the Avengers, and still do it anyway.

NewBlue7977

March 7th, 2024 at 12:31 PM ^

Ranchers and hunters used the same term to poach wolves when they were protected in the Northern Rocky Mountain states, and still do in Idaho and Montana during non-hunting season.  Been reading some people advocating this in areas of Oregon and Washington State where wolves are protected.  

g_dubya

March 7th, 2024 at 12:46 PM ^

That isn't how this works at all. They were here in Colorado and they were hunted to extinction. 

Moose didn't really belong here and were introduced and now they are doing almost too well. They didn't end up migrating elsewhere.

Elk were nearly extirpated, were reintroduced and haven't migrated elsewhere. Now Colorado has the largest elk herd in North America.

Lynx were reintroduced a few years ago and are doing well. Oddly they haven't all migrated elsewhere.

Wolves have now been reintroduced and they don't appear to be migrating elsewhere. 

g_dubya

March 7th, 2024 at 1:08 PM ^

I think it's going ok although it is still way too political and our agency is often too slow in responding to critics (similar to a certain athletic department). It probably would have been better for CPW if it hadn't been pushed through the ballot as wolves had already taken up residence in North Park. Spending this amount of political capital for something that was happening naturally has led to conflicts I think we would rather stay out of but, if we're going to be mandated to make it happen, we seem to be doing pretty well with it.

NewBlue7977

March 7th, 2024 at 1:15 PM ^

I have always believed that the hostility towards wolves by some people doesn't directly reflect on the species, but more on politics.  If wolves reintroduced themselves naturally back into Colorado, Montana, Wyoming and Idaho like they did in the Great Lakes region, then the people who are not pro-wolf would be more accepting to coexist with them.  It hadn't happened for a stable population for over 70 years, and in Colorado for nearly 90 years, though.  It's sad that wolves are caught in the middle of two political sides that are using them as a leverage bag.  

NewBlue7977

March 7th, 2024 at 1:29 PM ^

Wolves move around long distances into areas where there are natural resources and very little people, so I wouldn't be surprised if the population in Colorado increased down the line, but who really knows.  Wyoming has made it very difficult for wolves to take territory in Colorado due to their wolf management laws (anyone can shoot a wolf at anytime with or without a permit in the southern part of the state). 

g_dubya

March 7th, 2024 at 6:44 PM ^

I think this sums it up well:

'Wolves are really just a symbol of unresolved societal debates like the urban-rural divide or rural livelihoods or tradition or culture or federal versus state government or public versus private land,” he said.'

https://www.rmpbs.org/blogs/news/wolf-myths-colorado/?fbclid=IwAR2-ul9mRvnQNamTvXBvOWPlpKI0rGI_RNnE_UXIjZCmpcQfYJEsJGgRXyo

NewBlue7977

March 7th, 2024 at 8:15 PM ^

Kevin Crooks' talking points are spot-on of my belief.  I have volunteered with wolf research projects in a few different regions, and my gut feeling from experience is that the disagreement is not about wolves, it's about one side telling the other what they can and cannot do, and the other side sees wolves as an image of the side they don't want pushing them around.

Here in the Midwest you see more acceptance of wolves from the far majority because there was no mankind made reintroduction.  Even in the Northern Rocky Mountains and Pacific Northwest the majority are in favor of wolves, but the minority who are not have a lot of power to persuade the local politicians, especially since many of the local politicians are part of the same stakeholder groups.  

"He also said other studies have also shown wolves can affect the behavior of big game. In some circumstances, wolves might make hunting a bit harder by moving the elk or deer around more. Still, Crooks believes overall that robust hunting opportunities for humans can coexist with wolves."

Yellowstone and Isle Royale are perfect examples of behavioral changes.  It has been a major part of vegetation growth in areas of Yellowstone, and most of Isle Royale that were overgrazed by moose.  Thank you for providing the source.  It was a very good read. 

oriental andrew

March 7th, 2024 at 11:04 AM ^

Fun fact - the rocky mountain goat is an introduced species to the Colorado Rocky Mountains and taking over the range of the bighorn sheep, which is the endemic and much more docile species. 

g_dubya

March 7th, 2024 at 12:56 PM ^

That's not really true. Mountain goats and bighorn sheep have different habitat preferences with mountain goats being almost entirely alpine and bighorn sheep preferring subalpine. Bighorn sheep populations have been having difficulties due to diseases carried by domestic sheep, not mountain goats.

SalvatoreQuattro

March 7th, 2024 at 12:58 PM ^

Bear population in Michigan is increasing, Deer population is exploding(2 million last I checked), and mountain lions are back in the UP.

Not just keep your cats indoors people.

NotAMichiganSpy

March 7th, 2024 at 2:16 PM ^

It'd be kind of weird for people in Colorado to celebrate the introduction of wolves and wolverines into my backyard in Michigan so I won't do that to them. I know the last time they voted on reintroducing wolves to colorado everyone voted no except for the capital. So basically the people who actually live in the areas these animals will be had no say which rubbed me the wrong way.

Wolverines aren't as much of a threat to livestock and pets as wolves but if I lived there I'd probably be a bit wary of having these new predators lurking.

g_dubya

March 7th, 2024 at 6:25 PM ^

"everyone voted no except for the capital. So basically the people who actually live in the areas these animals will be had no say"

This is not correct. Five counties west of the divide voted for wolf reintroduction with both San Miguel and Pitkin over 60% in favor. They have also come over the divide and are now in Larimer County.

Pretty sure that losing a vote does not equal 'had no say.'

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2020_Colorado_Proposition_114

https://cpw.state.co.us/Documents/Wolves/MonthlyCollaredWolfActivityAreaMap_Feb2024.pdf