(Now that Brian has talked about it) MBB Coaching Wishlists
I've refrained from posting a CC thread mid-season, but I feel like Brian offering comments on the necessity of it all warrants a layout of potential options.
If you were (ahem) a competent athletic director, whose agent would you be starting to nudge a bit? In my mind I think of a few names:
- Tommy Lloyd (Arizona): comes from the Mark Few coaching tree, has won 61 games his first two seasons as a head coach. Would be a really hard get given he's only been in Tuscon a brief time.
- Dusty May (FAU): took the Owls to the Final Four. What else needs be said? Probably every major program with a coaching change will be clamoring for him.
- Porter Moser (Oklahoma): has struggled a bit since leaving Loyola Chicago but has seemed to find his footing/system this past year. Oklahoma has lost coaches to the B10 in the past...
- Nate Oats (Alabama): SEC coach of the year, has history in the Detroit area (taught/coached at Romulus High). Has a pretty cushy salary at Alabama so may be tough to pry away.
Who is not on this list:
- Anyone above the age of 60 (flight/retirement risk in a few years)
- Anyone on Michigan's current staff (obviously)
- No recent Michigan coaches who are leading other programs (poor general track record)
January 31st, 2024 at 2:30 PM ^
I wouldn't want Warde involved in any coach search in any capacity. Fire that train wreck first and then move on to fixing the program issues beneath him.
January 31st, 2024 at 2:36 PM ^
Someone else finally found the common denominator
January 31st, 2024 at 2:58 PM ^
I tried to eliminate the denominator by the “competent AD” line
January 31st, 2024 at 3:04 PM ^
Remember how Warde very nearly almost hired Ed Cooley? Yeah, hard pass on letting Warde hire the next guy
January 31st, 2024 at 4:11 PM ^
And Cooley would have been a better pick than the one Warde chose.
January 31st, 2024 at 3:54 PM ^
What's fascinating to me about this is that we actually have more control over this (Michigan residents at least) than anything else in the Athletic department. The board of regents should be feeling the heat of this more than anyone.
January 31st, 2024 at 4:23 PM ^
Finding a new coach is not the problem. No coach in the world could win consistenty with our current policies on NIL and Admission of Transfers. Santa and the Regents need to wake up and smell the coffee or we will be left out in the cold indefinitely.
January 31st, 2024 at 5:13 PM ^
The fact that one coach (Juwan Howard) is floundering does not in any sense prove that all coaches in his job would do likewise.
Hell, we just won the national title in football! Funny how no one ever brings up admissions as a problem for them.
January 31st, 2024 at 10:58 PM ^
no one ever brings up admissions as a problem for them.
Oh, it's come up a couple times.
January 31st, 2024 at 4:39 PM ^
Exactly! This would be a good time to examine Warde Manuel's performance as Michigan's Athletic Director since he was hired in January 2016.
Michigan's national championship in football is great, but it's obscuring what, for the most part, has been a down year for Michigan athletics.
Men’s Soccer (5-6-7; 2-1-5 and tied for 5th in Big Ten)
Women’s Soccer (7-7-4; 3-5-2 and tied for 9th in Big Ten)
Men’s Cross Country - 2nd in Big Ten championships
Women’s Cross Country - 3rd in Big Ten championships
Field Hockey (9-8; 3-5 and 7th in Big Ten)
Men’s Basketball (7-14; 2-8 and 14th in Big Ten)
Women’s Basketball (14-7; 5-4 and tied for 6th in Big Ten)
Volleyball (7-22; 5-15 and 12th in Big Ten)
Men’s Hockey (12-9-3; 5-7-2 and 5th in the seven-team Big Ten)
Wrestling (5-3; 3-2 and tied for 5th in Big Ten)
January 31st, 2024 at 10:52 PM ^
I think there are a lot of other factors that go into evaluating an AD at Michigan anyway. For sure, running a clean department, turning a profit would have to be at the top. He can point to extending Harbaugh, getting the dept through Covid in addition to the field successes, football, two hockey frozen fours. He did hire Pearson though, and did not attempt to keep JH. UM finished 21st in the fall Directors Cup, getting points from football, womens soccer, womens c/c and mens c/c. They're in the 3rd in the big-10 behind Wisconsin and PSU, and in terms of rivals, ND is at 4, Oregon is 18 and UCLA is 19.
January 31st, 2024 at 11:10 PM ^
Oregon and UCLA are Michigan’s rivals? Please don’t tell the poor souls over at RCMB.
February 1st, 2024 at 3:12 PM ^
Agree. To be fair to Warde Manuel, before last year and this year. Michigan consistently finished in the Top Ten in the final Directors’ Cup standings.
Final Directors’ Cup Standings for Michigan: 2023 (11th); 2022 (3rd); 2021 (3rd); 2020 (Canceled due to pandemic); 2019 (2nd); 2018 (6th); 2017 (4th)
Future Big Ten members UCLA and USC also are among the schools that often have been finishing near or among the top ten schools in the final Directors’ Cup standings during the period since Warde Manuel became Michigan’s Director of Athletics.
Final Directors’ Cup Standings for UCLA and USC: 2023 (UCLA - 14th; USC - 10th); 2022 (UCLA - 15th; USC - 12th); 2021 (UCLA - 13th; USC - 6th); 2020 (Canceled due to pandemic); 2019 (UCLA - 6th; USC - 5th); 2018 (UCLA - 2nd; USC - 4th); 2017 (UCLA - 9th; USC - 3rd)
January 31st, 2024 at 2:30 PM ^
Jalen Rose is available...
January 31st, 2024 at 3:27 PM ^
warde or his replacement should talk to him. I don't see it working until we try someone else first unless he has some real answers as to what he wants to do right now and why juwan is tanking.
hopefully this happens after he builds a resume at another school or two if he wants to coach.
...bruiser flint might be worth a look. somebody must be coaching em'up other than Cal at UK.
January 31st, 2024 at 3:41 PM ^
Let's just hire the best coach available, regardless of how cool he was 30 years ago as a player.
January 31st, 2024 at 6:34 PM ^
Why do people continually act as if someone with zero coaching experience can just step in and be successful in a role that almost invariably requires a LOT of experience?
Ties to Michigan do not magically imbue someone with all the complex set of skills, experience, knowledge, connections and attitude to be a head coach....or a coach at any level for that matter. To say nothing of all the "off the field" admin and PR and personnel, logistics, etc. etc.
January 31st, 2024 at 2:32 PM ^
Without changes to NIL, the chances are NIL on a number of options.
January 31st, 2024 at 2:53 PM ^
I see what you did there. But you’re spot on. I don’t think people realize how tough of a job Michigan is right now.
The school, athletic department, NIL are the difference between what we have now and a final four caliber team with Dickinson, Caleb Love and Terrance Shannon.
Losing three players isn’t on Juwan. A new coach isn’t going to change the infrastructure. A new coach isn’t going to cause mgodonors to scrounge up new change for basketball NIL after emptying their pockets for the football drives
January 31st, 2024 at 3:00 PM ^
I'm not disagreeing with anything in your post. In fact, I agree with it entirely.
I would only like to point out that last year's team had Hunter and two players who went 11 and 15 in the NBA draft and lost in the 2nd round of the NIT to Vanderbilt.
Granted it appears the game was at Vandy even though we were the higher seed. I'm not sure why.
February 1st, 2024 at 6:59 AM ^
Vandy was actually the higher seed, and the initial graphic when they announced the bracket on ESPN was wrong.
We also managed to blow an 8 point lead in the final minute of that game, so second half collapses aren’t exactly confined to this season. At least this year we do it right out of halftime so I can turn off the game and accomplish something with the rest of my evening.
January 31st, 2024 at 3:01 PM ^
"A new coach isn’t going to cause mgodonors to scrounge up new change for basketball NIL after emptying their pockets for the football drives"
I'm sorry but that's laughable. Michigan basically asked people to donate whatever loose change they had in their sofa cushions for football and had a bake sale for basketball. We have a very wealthy fanbase and our AD feels it's beneath him to ask for money so nobody's contributing in a meaningful way. Nobody's pockets have been emptied because nobody from the school has asked what's in them.
January 31st, 2024 at 3:19 PM ^
So wait, is the belief now that all the guys on the football and basketball teams are getting dramatically under-market NIL deals now but are sticking around because of their love for the Block M?
Michigan pays guys pretty well. Brian believing that Hunter Dickinson went to Kansas because Kansas paid him more money and not that Dickinson realized he could make basically the same amount of money and play for a contender in Manhattan doesn't make it reality.
January 31st, 2024 at 3:23 PM ^
If you think that Mason Graham, Kenneth Grant, et al. are going to get at Michigan what Texas is offering, I think you're going to be one of the few who holds that opinion, yes.
No, I don't have any idea what the facts are. Just saying what the popular belief is. You seem surprised.
January 31st, 2024 at 3:53 PM ^
Like I said, Michigan pays pretty well. Maybe some teams pay slightly more. But Mason Graham, Kenneth Grant, Will Johnson, Donovan Edwards, etc. have ALL had opportunities to go elsewhere and haven't, and I sort of doubt it's all about loyalty to the Maize and Blue. There have been vanishingly few defections from Michigan over the years, and I don't believe any starters have over at least the past couple of years. I said nothing about Michigan being the highest bidder, but I get if you want to make a tired, unsubstantied point that the University of Michigan sucks at everything related to make money and has been really good at football recently in spite of it you'd create whatever straw arguments you can.
The popular belief around this fanbase is, I hate to say it, not much better than your average conspiracy theory run through sports radio. Put as much credence you want into those closely-held beliefs at your own peril.
February 1st, 2024 at 10:17 AM ^
But Mason Graham, Kenneth Grant, Will Johnson, Donovan Edwards, etc. have ALL had opportunities to go elsewhere and haven't, and I sort of doubt it's all about loyalty to the Maize and Blue.
Unfortunately there's a chance that may change with Will Johnson and Kenneth Grant.
January 31st, 2024 at 4:33 PM ^
Minor correction. Kansas State is in Manhattan. Kansas University (where Dickinson plays) is in Lawrence. Those two schools and fanbases dislike each other very much, but people outside of Kansas don't realize the amount of animosity that exists between them because outside of Kansas, it doesn't matter.
January 31st, 2024 at 6:53 PM ^
An additional correction: even though it is bizarrely nicknamed "KU," it is in fact the University of Kansas.
January 31st, 2024 at 5:27 PM ^
January 31st, 2024 at 5:27 PM ^
Damn double post! Neg me, that said, I agree that money wasn’t Hunters sole or even main reason for leaving
January 31st, 2024 at 10:13 PM ^
Michigan does not pay guys well under their collectives.
January 31st, 2024 at 4:18 PM ^
So MGrow...
How much is donated to the Michigan Athletic Department every year? Do you suppose all those donations are for "must have" capital improvements? Do you think players and recruits would rather get paid than have the school build athletic facilities that exceed NFL levels? Do you think merely NFL level would be satisfactory if the players got some money?
Memo to next AD (since the current one seems too set in his ways): Tell donors to send a large portion of their donations to NIL collectives. Think we could achieve the same results with only the 10th best weight room?
February 1st, 2024 at 2:58 AM ^
For all of the doom and gloom group about Michigan NIL, I found this article ranking schools by NIL valuation, based on average earnings across the team. The article is dated April 11, 2023, so I am sure there has been reshuffling since then.
1) Texas A&M - $85,000
2) Michigan - $65,000
3) Oklahoma - $64,000
4) Georgia - $56,000
5) Alabama - $52,000
6) Clemson - $46,000
7) Ohio State - $44,000
8) Notre Dame - $34,000
9) Utah - $29,000
10) Baylor - $16,5000
Looking at individual NIL earnings, I think I saw that Will Johnson was the highest and he was down the list. You can take numbers and draw many different conclusions. One is that Michigan may not have the eye-popping numbers of the elite players, but it appears that NIL money is spread more across the team. Again, figures can be manipulated in a number of ways, but you can't just sit back and say that Michigan's NIL program is holding the team back.
If the NCAA changes some of the pay to play rules regarding NIL, maybe the focus and payments change.
What College Football Programs have the richest NIL deals? (nfldraftdiamonds.com)
January 31st, 2024 at 3:27 PM ^
final four caliber team with Dickinson, Caleb Love and Terrance Shannon.
We had Dickinson and two NBA first rounders last year, and barely made the NIT.
Our biggest problem is that we're a terribly coached team. This is not a scrappy bunch that plays its ass off but is out-talented. It's a bunch of guys who have no cohesiveness at all, even after 20+ games, and barely even try at the defensive end. (Dug apparently didn't try too hard in the classroom, either.)
January 31st, 2024 at 4:04 PM ^
Its all of the above. Roster construction, coaching, development, etc. Yes, you can be surprised by departures or admission denials but if you don't have a plausible, if not ideal, plan B, that is on the coach.
I know the potential to turn around a basketball team in one year is much easier than football as it only takes 1 or 2 players to make an impact but I don't see any light ahead for this team. Last years team was bad and this year's team is awful and we lose pretty much most of our contributors outside of Dug - and thats before any unexpected attrition
January 31st, 2024 at 5:30 PM ^
The two NBA first rounders argument is a bit dishonest. No one here has ever claimed that Jett Howard was a good college basketball player. The roster last year was so thin, that he had to play major minutes. Blame Juwan for that.
January 31st, 2024 at 6:59 PM ^
Juwan had two NBA draft picks on the 2021-22 team and went 19-15.
He had two more NBA draft picks on the 2022-23 team and went 18-16.
That most of them didn't play like it when they were here shouldn't be an excuse for him. If anything, it's a further indictment of this staff, that it isn't maximizing the talent it has.
January 31st, 2024 at 7:50 PM ^
I get your point, but with the NBA drafting on potential and not actual ability it sort of isn't fair. That said, if you're good enough to get drafted, you should be able to do something in college.
January 31st, 2024 at 4:13 PM ^
donars ponied up a billion dollars for the AD over a decade ago for facilities. the dough is out there.
January 31st, 2024 at 5:59 PM ^
The only thing I will disagree with is that losing incoming transfers isn't on Juwan. That is not entirely true and sort of reflects back to a problem thats haunted Juwan and Michigan since he got here.
Juwan has spent entirely too much time recruiting players that are long shots to enroll at Michigan. All the Top 10 5* that he chased year after year. But this also includes undergrad transfers who have never had much luck getting into the school. Beilein knew better than to chase after those guys as even if you secured their commitment admissions was always looming.
A new coach would better understand roster construction. A new coach should know what type of players he has a shot at getting to Michigan. A new coach might be able to teach defense. A new coach could get his players to show some hustle and effort.
January 31st, 2024 at 2:32 PM ^
My choice is TJ Otzelberger from Iowa State. Ran a consistent NCAA tournament program at South Dakota State, took over ISU after they went 2-22 and took them to the NCAA tournament/Sweet 16. Kenpom #12 this season and top 10 defenses each of his 3 seasons at ISU. Offense has gone 171, 114, 51, in his 3 seasons. Only 44, started at UW-Whitewater so midwest guy and only makes $1.5M per year so very affordable for the penny pinching AD.
EDIT: Should also mention he is doing this in the Big 12 which is an insanely brutal conference to play in right now
January 31st, 2024 at 2:38 PM ^
Forgot about him. Great call.
January 31st, 2024 at 2:43 PM ^
Plus it'll be very easy for local restaurants to name a sandwich after him to put on the menu next to the It Was Crazy sub.
January 31st, 2024 at 3:09 PM ^
Yes, but I'm pretty sure the Otzel-burger (while celebrated every where else) would constitute a major NCAA infraction and the second worst scandal in conference history at Michigan.
January 31st, 2024 at 4:18 PM ^
the wurst scandal had to be in WI, right?
January 31st, 2024 at 11:02 PM ^
Not according some 3rd base brat in Columbus
January 31st, 2024 at 2:46 PM ^
He just beat Kansas this weekend
January 31st, 2024 at 3:39 PM ^
Watched him up close when he was at UNLV. Would be a great hire for Michigan. He is a big Iowa state guy though. Will be hard to get him away from them.
January 31st, 2024 at 4:19 PM ^
If someone could pry Fred Hoiberg (The Mayor as he was called) out of Ames, we can pry this guy out.
January 31st, 2024 at 11:02 PM ^
Revenge for Johnny Orr.