NIL Question
Reading the Alex article, I became curious.
Does anyone actually know what the difference is between the NIL program Michigan runs and others that are more successful? It's all so opaque and often talked around. I genuinely have no idea what Michigan is doing wrong or right. Even in Alex's article it isn't clear what the hold-up is, just that there is general resistance to paying players directly.
I thought we had the Valiant Group, but apparently they aren't good?
December 9th, 2022 at 4:05 PM ^
So let me get this straight: You read Alex's article and instead of commenting this on said article, you thought you should make a board post?
December 9th, 2022 at 4:15 PM ^
Dust in the wind dude
December 9th, 2022 at 4:38 PM ^
MGoBlog.
The only message board that hates when people post, messages.
...just kidding, while I think people cry WAY too much about threads on this board - this is a great point.
December 9th, 2022 at 4:57 PM ^
It is strange how much people police the board here
December 9th, 2022 at 5:44 PM ^
Agreed. Especially since this board is kind of dead compared to others. Or compared to what it once was. More than anything, it's just not that serious...but people lose their minds.
MGoBlog, purely my opinion, is only the best Michigan site because it has the best content (though On3 is strong due to the volume) and the best posters (and this isn't close). The posters on this site are knowledgeable and they're informed - about Michigan football, and life in general. The other sites are just fans, and by and large, they're morons ("with all due respect"). Filled with sheep who hang on every word of the mods amd the mob that is insufferable whenever things don't go exactly as planned (NIL, Cade/Erick, losing a recruit or commit, etc.)
The rules on thread titles and content are GREAT. Justin Feagin, is an incredible rule. And not having a bunch of comedian trolling threads is HUGE.
Subject: "Big News for Michigan Football."
Thread: "Ohio St. hasn't beaten Michigan in (x) days."
That should be an autoban and a kick in the junk. This site doesn't let that crap fly and I love it.
So at least we get the good with the bad!
December 9th, 2022 at 7:56 PM ^
It's taken us over a decade to get MGoBoard to the point it's at. We must stay ever vigilant.
December 10th, 2022 at 12:37 AM ^
Sometimes you read the message board threads on 247 or On3, and you can understand why other fans hate Michigan fans so much. Fucking morons everywhere on those sites.
December 10th, 2022 at 12:13 PM ^
*morans
December 9th, 2022 at 5:47 PM ^
Not sure if they are policing the board, or just enjoy being assholes to people. Probably both.
December 11th, 2022 at 9:38 AM ^
This x100
December 9th, 2022 at 5:37 PM ^
Oh no the precious megabytes clogging up the internet
December 9th, 2022 at 5:38 PM ^
Lighten up. It's a message board not a Re-Education camp.
Pour as much scorn as you like on people who post stupid negatvity, but this is a legit question. Yes, it could have been posted on the article by Alex, but perhaps some of us think it is a worthy question that should not be lost among a stream of comments on that article.
We all love Michigan Football, so let's emulate our team and treat each other with respect.
December 9th, 2022 at 4:18 PM ^
I equate it like this.
Imagine you're on a highway in the middle of nowhere, and the posted speed limit is 65, and it's enforced by the local neighborhood watch. Many people speed because the neighborhood watch doesn't catch everyone, while other people honor the speed limit because they're good, upstanding citizens.
Then, the courts rule that the neighborhood watch really has not authority to enforce speed limit infractions. It didn't rule that speed limits are in violation, just that the neighborhood watch doesn't have proper authority. Defiantly, the neighborhood watch says they're going to keep the signs up, even though they can no longer enforce it.
Now, everyone's doing 150 on that highway, but Michigan is choosing to still do 65, because there isn't specifically a sign that says that there's no speed limit.
----------------------------------
The legal ruling did not specifically say that paying players directly is legal, but by enabling players to make money off their likeness, they're effectively gutting the NCAA's authority to limit player payments.
But even though the NCAA's ability to enforce their antiquated version of amateurism has been 90% gutted, Michigan is still choosing to adhere to the NCAA's rules, where as everyone else is basically doing business as if the NCAA doesn't exist any more.
So while every other school is effectively giving recruits lump payments for showing up on campus, Michigan is basically outsourcing their NIL program to outside the program, and hoping that getting $20 for their signatures at MDen is going to compete with what the SEC is doing.
December 9th, 2022 at 4:52 PM ^
" every other school is effectively giving recruits lump payments for showing up on campus".
This is hyperbole and factually incorrect. There is *no* school that is paying any player in any way. None. If you can find a single 1099 or W-4 evidencing that payment for "showing up", you will be a huge internet hero, famous for life.
I also doubt that you would be able to find a single cash or crypto (good luck tracing those) payment from a school run slush or discretionary fund that is used to entice/recruit a player to attend or compensate a player post enrollment. Those two things are verboten.
Now, about having someone in the AD's office who can arrange for a meeting with a non-employee booster or a non-affiliated collective, ostensibly after admissions (this is murky currently), that is a completely different story and that's where the folks in AA seem to be lagging.
Keywords are non-employee and non-affiliated. The money cannot originate with, be controlled by, or be managed by an entity that is affiliated with the school. Those two keywords are the essences of the matter.
December 9th, 2022 at 5:20 PM ^
Keywords are non-employee and non-affiliated. The money cannot originate with, be controlled by, or be managed by an entity that is affiliated with the school. Those two keywords are the essences of the matter.
This is exactly the point. These conditions were created/enforced by the NCAA after the court ruling came out. UM is still keeping everything NIL in line with the new NCAA fine print, meanwhile, the rest of college football has recognized that there's no need to even bother adhering to these guidelines anymore since the NCAA has been completely undermined by the courts.
You think top recruits are getting 5+ million dollar deals for doing a couple ads for local car dealerships? Nope. This type of revenue has to be coming from things like TV deals and merch sales, which resides with... you guessed it, the athletic departments themselves. Texas A&M is seeing 20+ transfers this season alone, partially because got there, got paid for no-show NIL deals, and are taking their cash somewhere else, to collect another paycheck.
Several recruits have confirmed that the coaches themselves have discussed how much money they'll get if they sign, so it's not exactly a secret. Even if that money is coming from donors, it's still be handed out by the athletic program itself. Other schools are completely ignoring the NCAA's new guidelines completely, which is why UM has fallen behind, since we're following the letter of the law for some reason.
You can keep repeating what the actual rule says and pretending that no schools would dare break an NCAA rule, if you'd like. But the point is that no one is enforcing it, so why are we following it?
December 9th, 2022 at 5:44 PM ^
I would really like to see any indication that funds are being "handed out by the athletic program itself". If you can document that in any verifiable way, you win and that school gets put in the penalty box.
It's also possible that the TA&M boys are leaving because the boosters finally realized that they got poor ROI on their money and shut off their bad deals. Regardless, it wasn't the school's money they were paid... it was some fools' money they were paid.
December 9th, 2022 at 5:51 PM ^
that school gets put in the penalty box.
There is no penalty box. The NCAA barely enforced it before, but now, it can't enforce it unless it wants to get taken to court and take another L.
That's the whole point.
December 9th, 2022 at 5:54 PM ^
Several recruits have confirmed that the coaches themselves have discussed how much money they'll get if they sign, so it's not exactly a secret. Even if that money is coming from donors, it's still be handed out by the athletic program itself.
It's not technically handed out by the university. It's filtered through the university's "collective," which Michigan has not--for some unbelievably stupid reason--helped formed. Collectives are their own private entities that donors just put money into because they're free to do so. The collective, then, makes payments for players' NIL (e.g., the collective will pay every player on the team $10K for letting it use the team's photos on its website). Well-organized collectives can then effectively guarantee money to players. I see no problem if coaches are explaining this arrangement to recruits.
December 9th, 2022 at 6:00 PM ^
Yep, this is a great summary. The end of the day is that whether the money is coming from actual NIL obligations, donor money, or a "slush fund", it's being facilitated by the university.
Michigan should be taking the lead on NIL collective, but for some reason, there seems to be some sort of thought that there has to be a 1000% separation of university and NIL, which makes no sense.
December 9th, 2022 at 6:17 PM ^
And honestly, the university itself probably doesn't have to take the lead. It's the rich donors/boosters themselves who would ultimately have to agree to form the collective. We just need a couple of law students to donate two months of time to get all the details, agreements, and paperwork straightened out...
...two years ago.
December 9th, 2022 at 5:26 PM ^
So your argument is it's not allowed, so therefore, nobody does it?
Murder is also not allowed. By your logic, that means no one has ever tried to murder anyone, right?
December 9th, 2022 at 5:48 PM ^
Really? Really...
Okay, show us what you've got that "every school" is slushing money to entice enrollments. Show us even one, just one school. Not rumors, not "everyone knows", waddayagot?
December 9th, 2022 at 6:02 PM ^
Stop trying to pass off the burden of proof to everyone else to justify your bad take.
December 9th, 2022 at 9:32 PM ^
It's an accurate and very specific take. Show me how it's wrong. Just one concrete instance.
December 10th, 2022 at 9:03 AM ^
This, & your subsequent posts helps me a great deal to understand why our recruiting is lagging, (besides Harbaugh stepping on his dick after last season).
PSA: If you’re driving the speed limit on the expressway, get the hell out of the left lane.
December 9th, 2022 at 4:18 PM ^
It's all opaque but you thought you'd get clarity somehow on the mgoboard?
Uh, okay.
December 9th, 2022 at 5:33 PM ^
Considering WayOfTheRoad posted a really enlightening comment below, yes
December 9th, 2022 at 4:20 PM ^
I too have been perplexed. It’s my (perhaps erroneous) understanding that the schools and athletic programs are prohibited from managing NIL money, so I’ve assumed that it’s the boosters who are dropping the ball rather than the university itself. I’d appreciate hearing from someone who actually knows the rules.
December 9th, 2022 at 4:33 PM ^
I'm also confused by it, but this was my understanding too. I thought that basically NIL was billed/intended as players being able to profit off their name, image, and likeness by making endorsement deals, selling merchandise, selling memorabilia, etc. Schools are supposed to be minimally involved -- it's really the players making deals with third-parties. In reality, many schools (particularly the ones that were already cheating pre-NIL) have just exploited NIL as a way to just pay players through various "NIL collectives" where players really aren't exchanging anything except for their participation on the team. Other schools (Texas A&M, Miami, etc.) have found ways to funnel money to recruits in exchange for their commitments, which is clearly against the spirit/intent of NIL. Michigan is not a school that's going to actively bend the rules, so it's falling to alums/boosters to build the NIL infrastructure, and there's not much that coaches can promise to recruits aside from the prospect of NIL money in the future.
One other factor to consider is that various states rushed to enact NIL laws, and it's possible inconsistencies in the law from state-to-state is playing a role.
December 9th, 2022 at 4:51 PM ^
"I’d appreciate hearing from someone who actually knows the rules."
This person doesn't exist, because THERE ARE NO RULES! But Michigan chooses to abide by them, anyway.
There is a vague "you cannot pay for play" statement from the NCAA. That is a nebulous concept because it's not defined. Michigan has (apparently) chosen to abide by that concept as a hard and fast 'rule', rather than as the nebulous concept it is, in an effort to avoid NCAA 'sanctions'. LOL!!! Like the NCAA can 'sanction' anything...
December 10th, 2022 at 7:06 AM ^
"This person doesn't exist, because THERE ARE NO RULES! "
I believe in addition to NCAA rules, there just might be some rules enacted by each of the 50 states.
December 9th, 2022 at 4:23 PM ^
we are not transactional
the end
December 9th, 2022 at 6:32 PM ^
I think this is important. I, too, was annoyed by Michigan's reluctance to use NIL, but the wins over "soft" schools like OSU and the results of teams like Texas A&M do suggest that what Michigan is doing--attracting high-character players that want to play--seems to be the proper approach.
December 9th, 2022 at 6:53 PM ^
We should not overstate the idea that we are just winning with blue collar 3* guys. The stars of our Ohio State and Big Ten Championship Game wins - JJ, Edwards, Johnson - are 5 stars. Take away those guys and we do not win those games.
We are not going to win at the level we are starting to get used to without 5 stars and high 4 stars. The Blue Chip ratio (to win an NC you need half your classes to be 4/5 stars) is a thing for a reason.
It is not clear that we would be able to recruit those guys in today's NIL environment. The "transformational not transactional" speech may not be enough.
December 9th, 2022 at 7:35 PM ^
I hope we are able to get JD.
December 9th, 2022 at 8:22 PM ^
This is correct
HOWEVAH
paying for unproven 18 year olds is fucking stupid. Haskins as a senior deserves more money than Greene would have made in all 4 years
December 9th, 2022 at 9:31 PM ^
Why does it have to be all or nothing? Don't offer a star recruit $2 million dollars, but don't offer them $0 dollars either. There is a non-$0 amount that won't blow up you locker room.
December 9th, 2022 at 4:27 PM ^
Someone should post the definition of opaque
December 9th, 2022 at 4:44 PM ^
I would, but I found the concept unclear and difficult to understand.
December 9th, 2022 at 4:46 PM ^
Now you're just muddying the waters...
December 10th, 2022 at 9:10 AM ^
I wish that someone could help me see the light.
December 9th, 2022 at 4:45 PM ^
I think we need NIL to be it's own entity on the blog under the "Useful Stuff" drop down.
I'm all about folks asking questions, even if it's more than once it gets covered, but the NIL bit seems to be taking on a life of it's own.
Mods...get on that. I'm the idea man.
December 9th, 2022 at 4:58 PM ^
"difference is between the NIL program Michigan runs and others that are more successful?"
I'm not sure if it's possible yet to determine which schools are successful and which are not.
After all, Texas A&M seemed to be crushing it, and their best-class-ever flopped.
EDIT: I seem to keep stumbling here lately. I made this comment before reading Alex's post. Apparently it IS possible to have at least some sense of which schools are more successful in NIL.
December 9th, 2022 at 5:10 PM ^
Does anyone know anything concrete about NIL? Are the payments lump sum or spread out over enrollment? What if a player transfers? Are there expectations, on field or off, tied to these payments?
December 9th, 2022 at 5:23 PM ^
Also, if NIL is tied to a school, which I assume it is, then how is all NIL not pay for play? In other words if you getting paid to play at Michigan why is it morally superior if that doesn’t occur until after you’re enrolled?
December 10th, 2022 at 10:18 PM ^
Often, there is an initial lump sum payment (i.e. $50,000-100,000) and then gradual payment plans over the life of the deal (ie 6 month installments).
The deals typically state that for the deal to be valid, the student athlete has to adhere to a certain number of “NIL activities” which can range from autograph signings, golf tournament appearances, dinners with clients of the 3rd party, etc.
There tends to be language in the contract stating that the third party has the right to designate the time/location within 24-48 hours of the NIL activity. Some have general location of NIL activities (ie Washtenaw and Wayne County). This allows the 3rd party to force the student athlete to stay with the program for the deal to be valid.
An example is a potential UofM centric NIL collective could tell Cole Cabana at 9:45 pm on a Monday that he has to be present at 10 pm the next day at Ricks for an autograph session. Nothing about attending a specific university is ever in the contract. Hence the contracts abide by NCAA rules and more importantly state laws.
December 9th, 2022 at 5:18 PM ^
I think it's like draws mentioned above, Michigan, as an institution, is philosophically opposed to having kids choose to attend the school because they have been promised money.
As Coach Harbaugh stated, attending Michigan, playing football for Michigan, is a transformational experience, not a transactional experience. So, i don't think it's about fear of NCAA reprisal. I think it is principle... from the head of the university to the head of the football team.