MI Governor executive order calls for masks to be worn DURING HS football games by players

Submitted by Wolverine Devotee on September 9th, 2020 at 10:17 PM

https://www.mlive.com/highschoolsports/2020/09/gov-whitmer-football-players-other-athletes-must-mask-up-even-while-competing.html

The new order states that a face covering must be worn at all times by athletes, unless they can maintain 6 feet of social distance.

So those in football, soccer and volleyball -- sports that just returned this week -- will need to wear face coverings at all times. Cross country, golf and tennis can go without masks, if they can stay apart. Swimmers are the only exception to any coverings.

“The COVID-19 virus is easily spread through airborne particles and can affect everyone differently,” Gov. Whitmer said in a release. "By wearing a face covering when proper distancing is not possible, athletes will be better protected from contracting the virus and spreading it to family members, frontline workers, and vulnerable populations.

“We cannot afford to let our guard down. As we continue to fight this virus, we need to make smart and informed choices so we can beat COVID-19 together.”

yvgeni

September 10th, 2020 at 8:23 AM ^

well you didn't really finish the entire quote from The Who did you?

".... the important preventive measure during exercise is to maintain physical distance of at least one meter from others."

so the obvious next question is what if you CANT maintain physical distance of at least one meter from others?

Well I guess you gotta wear masks then as the ONLY OTHER OPTION .... or not play.  

 

Joined: 06/30/2008

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wolverine1987

September 10th, 2020 at 8:34 AM ^

I was posting about far more than football, with gyms starting to open in the country, all with masks mandatory. But with regard distancing, first note the WHO notes 1 meter is the right distance, and the CDC says 6 feet, almost double, is the right distance. Again, which expert? And turning to football, we already know from European soccer and basketball here that close contact without masks isn't increasing spread. So again, there is no science, only informed opinion, behind Whitmer's order

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wolverine1987

September 10th, 2020 at 9:08 AM ^

Incorrect. The UK, where they completed a soccer season earlier this year--had WORSE death rates and outcomes than we do, yet played. The different approaches have nothing to do with the key concern--can sports be played without harming public health? The answer to that is already obvious. Just as the answer to can we open schools is already obvious through existing facts.

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wolverine1987

September 10th, 2020 at 9:57 AM ^

Hmm. Well it's a fact that UK had worse death rates per capita than ours. And a fact that they conducted a soccer season without incident. It's also a fact that countries all over the world either kept schools open or have had them open without having worse outcomes either for kids or teachers. A fact that their scientists believe schools can be open. A fact that in the US for example, Colorado and Georgia have had schools open for three weeks and cases and numbers are still declining. So which of these facts is not true?

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blue in dc

September 10th, 2020 at 10:43 AM ^

You may want to look at when those deaths occurred and when they started playing soccer:

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/country/uk/

Spoiler alert - they peaked at 1166 on April 21.  The league was suspended between March 12 and June 17.   On June 17, UK deaths were down to 106 per day and The UK had 39,615 total deaths.  Right now they have 41,594 total deaths.   In other words, 94% of the deaths you cite had occurred before play resumed and Deaths had decreased over 90% from their peak.

The US peak of 2748 occurred on April 21st.   Yesterday we had 1209 deaths.   In other words a reduction of about 56%.   In other words, the UK was in much better shape when it resumed play than the US is today.

 

So your facts with regards to the UK and soccer may be true, but your use of those facts doesn’t make the point you are suggesting it does.   Using facts isn’t enough.    You actually have to put the facts together in a way that forms a logical argument.

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wolverine1987

September 10th, 2020 at 1:43 PM ^

I respect this argument, which is summarized as "you can do these things when the numbers are low enough to support it." The only problem is there isn't any data that confirms that, just opinion. Question: If the concern is increasing the spread versus a baseline, why exactly does the baseline matter? The concern is increasing the baseline, not what the baseline is. Meanwhile we have data from GA and CO that shows Covid numbers have declined since the start of school, and on particular, the argument against school opening in GA was yours--"the numbers are too high to support this."

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blue in dc

September 10th, 2020 at 5:25 PM ^

First, I’d like to acknowledge that I also respect this counterargument.    I don’t think i should get credit for the opinion, because it’s not even the point I was trying to make.  I was just pointing out that it is ridiculous to suggest that the UK was so much worse off then us and in the midst of all that, they managed to play soccer, when clearly, they weren’t that bad off when they played soccer.

I do see how it is a logical conclusion of my point (and it is a concept I generally think makes sense and that I’ve argued in other contexts), so it is certainly appropriate to call me out on it.

On an individual level, I still think it stands.   Would you rather spend an hour in a room where there is 1 out of 20 people who had covid or a room where 10 out of 20 other people had covid?    I’m pretty sure that we’d agree, in this case the baseline matters.   But clearly, your point stands, many people (And I’m certainly one of them) expected to see Georgia’s actions increase spread and it hasn’t.

This is even more impressive given that there are places in Georgia seeing significant increases.   Athens County (Home of UGA) has the 23rd highest number of cases per capita of any county in the country.   In order to see overall decreases, this must mean even bigger decreases in other areas.  Why do college students in the same state increase cases, while primary school age students don’t seem too?  Is it because kids (even high school ones) are less spreaders?   Are colleges testing more and just catching more cases?    Is the density in a class room low enough relative to a bar or frat party that spread is much less?   

Would be much more fun questions to debate if they weren’t matters of peoples lives or livelihood.   This question is really the crux of the entire debate.    How do you adjust restrictions/freedoms in a pandemic?   Is it best to wait til things get really bad (e.g. hospitals are close to being overwhelmed) before closing bars, restaurants etc.   or is it better to be cautious even though time will demonstrate that in some cases it likely wasn’t warranted.   They are not easy decisions to have to make.

 

To me this is why more mask wearing (the lowest cost thing we can do in my mind), and more and faster testing should be the foundation of any strategy.    Even though they aren’t going to prevent every surge, they should reduce them and give you more warning.  

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wolverine1987

September 10th, 2020 at 7:40 PM ^

While there is no conclusive proof of this, there is much data and opinion out there from some experts that say that kids below college age are indeed (and the reason isn't known) spreading it far less than adults do. This is why in no country worldwide (with the exception briefly of Israel, which led to no known deaths or even hospitalizations) have we seen increased numbers caused by schools opening--in fact as you note we've seen declines in many areas after opening. Sweden stayed open during the worst part of their Covid deaths and concluded there was no increased spread at all from schools there. And that teachers there had the same risk of infection as all other professions. And in Sweden they did not and are not wearing masks widely, and Sweden now has a flat line of Covid numbers at very low levels. I'm not making an anti-mask point, I wear them whenever I go out (except to run, where I distance) but just to buttress the point. My view is mask wearing, protect the vulnerable, consider schools of all types essential services and have them open. 

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Qmatic

September 9th, 2020 at 10:21 PM ^

We bought boxes of team color gaiters to match our uniform colors for games. Kids got one for home and one for away games and one for practice. The kids try their best to keep them on. They aren’t too much of a hindrance because they’re so thin and basically just being done for compliance purposes.

In all honesty, I know most our kids will wash their gaiter once a week, so I wonder if this is more harm than good?

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Jota09

September 10th, 2020 at 11:49 AM ^

That really isn't misinformation.  The study does indicate that neck gaiters are worse than not wearing a mask.  It just isn't conclusive.  It is actual information that requires further analysis.  You know, like science.

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