MGoBlog Roundtable with JUB as special guest: Harbaugh's contract discussion
John U Bacon and Sam Webb update on Harbaugh's contract from their sources. Starts at around 30min mark. Here's a quick summary:
- Heard it from every level at Michigan that Jim made it very very clear this is where he wants to be and will not pursue the NFL. However, if they come knocking on his door, he'll listen.
- This situation is not about the NFL, the NCAA or even the BIG Ten, it's about Michigan. If Michigan shows love and they want Harbaugh, he stays. It's not about the number. He wants the bear hug. He's getting it from Ono, but not Warde.
- They confirm the 5yr/55M contract extension on the table with two major sticking points:
NFL clause and for cause clause: Boils down to two questions: Who defines them and who decides if you've cross that line? If it's between Jim and Warde, that's a sticking point as there's not a lot of goodwill to draw on. But if Santa were making the decisions, Jim would be ok.
- Warde did not attend the Football Banquett on Sunday.
December 21st, 2023 at 8:23 PM ^
This board will feast on another reason to hate on Warde
December 21st, 2023 at 8:30 PM ^
Mike Jones!
December 21st, 2023 at 8:35 PM ^
A predisposition of which I have been very critical.
But: If the info in the OP is accurate, it's not baseless Warde hate to be critical of Warde. It is merited. And given that Ono stepped over Warde last offseason, we already have some evidence that favors this kind of explanation.
Much of Warde's job is misunderstood, but retaining an elite coach (whom you deserve credit for keeping!) in the program that is both the face and the body of the department you run is unquestionably a key part of it.
I thought Warde would leave after last spring, and if the info in the OP is accurate, I'm rather surprised he still has his job.
*And I'm as much of a Warde defender as any person on this board.
December 21st, 2023 at 8:59 PM ^
There's also a major counter to the current narrative they discussed -- the fact that Warde retained Harbaugh after '20 2-4 season. Could've easily terminated Harbaugh then w/o much (if any) pushback.
December 21st, 2023 at 9:18 PM ^
Theory: Warde is lazy.
At the time, keeping Jim meant no risky/difficult coaching search work.
But keeping successful Jim meant lots of unpleasant work repelling hate.
Now, letting Jim escape means less distasteful work.
December 21st, 2023 at 9:58 PM ^
Makes no sense still. If he’s lazy, as you theorize, then he would be doing what he could to keep him now, too.
December 21st, 2023 at 10:52 PM ^
I don't know, man. There was a huge vocal block of fans/alumni (maybe majority?) calling for Jim's head. Many were saying JH would never get over the hump. That was the overwhelming narrative within the fan base and within the media. But Warde made a calculated decision, forced Jim swallow the pay cut with the incentivized contract. That move didn't seem lazy to me. It seemed almost Machiavellian. Yes, he mitigated the shit he'd have to take if it went further south with the pay cut contract, but it would have been on Warde if it went south. He wouldn't have survived it, I don't think.
December 21st, 2023 at 10:30 PM ^
There absolutely would have been pushback if Harbaugh had been fired after 2020. The narrative that "everyone wanted him gone" is simply not true. There were plenty who were willing to give him more time, especially after he revamped his staff.
December 21st, 2023 at 10:00 PM ^
I have no opinion about Warde. But half the board lazily defaults to “it’s Warde’s fault” when anything negative happens. Rarely is any evidence supplied. It’s always entirely speculative and vibes-related.
December 22nd, 2023 at 1:11 AM ^
Insider rumblings that are this consistent are rarely wrong. Where there's smoke, there's fire as they say, and at this point it's pretty clearly established Warde and Jim just don't see eye to eye.
December 22nd, 2023 at 7:19 AM ^
As someone who knows a little about the situation...here is a little background.
- Jim just doesn't like Warde, plain and simple. That said, he doesn't necessarily dislike him...the general theme that I hear is that he just finds Warde useless.
- Jim also goes over and around Warde to get what he wants. So Warde is essentially powerless when it comes to Jim. Obviously Warde doesn't like that at all, his head coach can be a jerk...but more importantly, he doesn't follow chain of command and is bigger than the department.
FWIW, Saban is the exact same way...the difference is, no one in Alabama thinks they are more important, influential, etc. than Saban. Everyone knows their place, including Greg Byrne, the AD. Greg is a better communicator and never tells Saban "no"...he just asks that Saban keep him in the loop. Saban does and they have a solid relationship.
- Warde on the other hand tries to play AD with Harbaugh. It doesn't work.
But this isn't completely on Warde. At Alabama, there are no coach, faculty, or administrators pointing to the football coach saying, "why does he get that and I don't?" and crying foul.
Now think about Michigan, ol "THIS IS MICHIGAN." Warde's thing with Harbaugh is..."I'll get you what you want in the end...but you've got to play the game with me, don't undermine me and make me look bad in front of everyone else."
Harbaugh doesn't play the game. Again, he operates like Saban.
If they have all-staff meetings, and they're mandatory...and everyone shows up except Jim, what kind of message does that send?
Now Warde has to deal with the drama and bullshit that comes from that.
You think anyone at Bama is going, "well if Nick isn't here...why do I have to be here?" Of course not, everyone knows what's up.
So the Warde/Harbaugh thing is more complex, a lot has to do with "MICHIGAN" and the entitled, sense of "fairness" and "equality", etc. that comes with that.
Harbaugh moves and operates like Saban, or Coach K, or most SEC coaches for that matter. He operates with an NFL mindset...which is, "does this contribute to winning?"
Harbaugh sitting at an All-Staff meeting while they review the next community service opportunity, have a guest speaker, get a budget overview, and talk about department goals for the semester isn't helping him win football games...and thus, there is no reason for him to be there (hypothetically speaking).
All of this creates problems for Warde.
- Warde hates setting precedent. Harbaugh does something or gets something and the next coach wants it...and now it's a "thing." Now it's threatening "Title IX" or inequitable treatment. Now it's problems and headaches for Warde that he doesn't want to deal with and Harbaugh is like, "not my problem."
So basically, their relationship is set up to fail.
Harbaugh goes to Ono for everything, Ono loops Warde back in, but Warde is pretty powerless in the threesome.
So Warde turns his attention to running the athletics department EXCEPT for Harbaugh and Ono handles some of that.
Warde deals with other people on Harbaugh's staff and Warde has people on his staff that deal with the football program.
This is why Warde so quickly responded to the Juwan Howard thing...because he's basically the AD for Michigan Athletics, minus Football.
Hopefully this provides a little context and background on the situation.
December 22nd, 2023 at 7:37 AM ^
You know how that reads?
Harbaugh cares about University of Michigan Football, not the University of Michigan.
Sometimes there is going to be a conflict between what is better for the football team, and what is better for the University as a whole. Harbaugh should care more about the latter, not the former.
...and Warde absolutely has to prioritize the latter.
December 22nd, 2023 at 10:23 AM ^
It does not read that way at all to me. It reads that Harbaugh is going to do what it takes to win Football games. He will do things that benefit UM when it does not interfere with winning Football games. He is hired to win Football games, get his students to excel in all phases of life including education. He is doing all of that.
Asking a guy making 8 million or whatever to attend all staff meeting is ridiculous.
Have him do those during off season.
December 22nd, 2023 at 2:23 PM ^
Feels like Harbaugh is just Harbaugh and that's all part of the package and you have to learn to live with it if you're Warde Manuel. And Michigan football simply is bigger than anything else in the Athletic Department.
Warde's job is to manage that dynamic in terms of keeping everyone else happy while also keeping Harbaugh (the most important person in the Athletic Department) satisfied. That's just the job of the Athletic Director even if it's not an easy dynamic to manage.
December 22nd, 2023 at 8:13 AM ^
Spot on
December 22nd, 2023 at 1:10 PM ^
I have no idea how accurate this is, but it sounds plausible and tries to be fair to the motives and actions of both parties.
This is off the FP now, but I'm dropping this here kinda for the record. This scenario makes a lot of sense to me and helps explain a lot of what we see.
December 21st, 2023 at 11:10 PM ^
I’m not a Warde hater. I’ve previously defended on these here boards the 2020 contract modification. The trajectory of the program at that point in time wasn’t great (Covid aside) and an incentive based contract placated the “fire Harbaugh” crowd IMO. It was a “second chance” overture that Harbaugh deserved. Let’s be honest- when he was originally hired we expected some OSU wins and championship appearances before 2020.
Warde’s career, not just his job, hinges on success of the football program. Which is why I thought the 2020 modification was savvy. But…if we believe the “Warde isn’t bending the knee” takes from insiders (which takes I question post sign gate), what is he thinking? This is the best job he will get. It’s not like you fail as Michigan AD and move on to Alabama. This isn’t corporate America, there’s a limited number of high profile AD jobs. If he isn’t 100% supporting a Harbaugh extension then he must be flexing some self destructive ego thing. Very strange.
December 25th, 2023 at 7:38 PM ^
The ego thing is exactly what he’s doing bc he can’t get fired due to support from people with power. It’s crazy such a fine institution like ours can have in-house fighting.
December 24th, 2023 at 2:01 AM ^
He does because Santa Ono doesn’t have the power to fire Warde despite what it looks like. And there are people in power that are Warde supporters that have become a voting block to vote him out. Only at Michigan. Those in favor of Warde need to be publicly outted.
December 25th, 2023 at 7:30 PM ^
Warde is still there because Ono doesn’t have the power to fire him. The power is spread out at Michigan and Warde has a block of people who have voting power support him (why? Who knows). But just imagine UM with a real AD and higher ups that support athletics. We would have turned playoff seasons into great recruiting coups. Wouldn’t have stupid inhibitions on NIL or pay to play. No school would have ever tried to take down Harbaugh or UM like OSU did. And if someone did, UM would sure as hell fight back. All due to weak leadership and AD. It’s probably like four to five academics who think football is unethical who love Warde trying to ruin Harbaugh. They think football is “dirty” and “unethical” when the very thing they are doing, abusing their voting power, is unethical.
You can poke holes through any UM leader’s argument about anything all UM is, is a bunch of old hags with a power struggle and therefore can never get anything done. Not a great look when “inferior” institutions are able to do this.
December 21st, 2023 at 8:23 PM ^
Easy solution. Fire Warde.
December 21st, 2023 at 10:00 PM ^
Yeah if Warde is the sticking point than give him the bum's rush. A great football coach is hard to find; administrative figure heads are a dime a dozen.
Maybe eight for a dozen with inflation.
December 24th, 2023 at 8:05 PM ^
-1
Flunked spelling
December 21st, 2023 at 10:55 PM ^
If Santa fires Warde, I guarantee Harbaugh will sign the same day (based on JUB’s comments if true). Let us all ask for an additional present from Santa come Monday.
December 22nd, 2023 at 7:31 AM ^
I think you all are giving Warde more power over this process than he has.
Harbaugh doesn't need Warde to negotiate or sign the contract.
Warde isn't the sticking point. It's not like Warde is a roadblock for Harbaugh...Harbaugh ran Warde over a long time ago. Firing Warde may make him happy (I don't know)...but Warde doesn't have enough power over Harbaugh for it to truly be an issue.
December 24th, 2023 at 2:06 AM ^
Warde has the power to not provide him with the NIL he deserves.
December 24th, 2023 at 2:02 AM ^
Santa doesn’t have the power you think. I heard elsewhere that the power dynamics are different behind the scenes where there is a faction of people who have power that support word and block any chance to vote him out. These people need to be outted.
December 22nd, 2023 at 7:40 AM ^
Problem is - based on the way it sounds like Harbaugh is operating, you're going to have the same problem with the next AD.
Sounds like the only solution to make Harbaugh happy is to basically let football do whatever they want with no oversight - and no AD at Michigan is going to run the AD minus football without a fight.
This isn't Alabama, and Michigan (not Warde) isn't going to allow Harbaugh to operate that way with no pushback.
December 22nd, 2023 at 8:36 AM ^
Everybody knows all of the other sports at Michigan aren’t in the stratosphere as football. It’s almost like the football program itself needs their own “athletic director” maybe call him the football director and let Warde direct the rest of the sports at Michigan.
December 22nd, 2023 at 9:42 AM ^
That WILL NOT ever happen at Michigan.
So with that in mind - do you really think a different AD is going to have more success?
December 22nd, 2023 at 9:24 AM ^
Then make Harbaugh HC / AD
December 22nd, 2023 at 9:43 AM ^
Then Harbaugh would have to prioritize all the other sports equally to football.
December 22nd, 2023 at 2:25 PM ^
I don't think it's let football run with no oversight, but I do think you need to let Harbaugh be Harbaugh. There are ways of managing that dynamic while still providing the necessary oversight for the football program (and doing things like better vetting of people who are being brought in).
December 21st, 2023 at 8:25 PM ^
Warde must go and Juwan is 2nd.
December 21st, 2023 at 8:27 PM ^
Does anyone understand (1) why warde seems to be so unsupportive of Harbaugh; and (2) why Michigan would meek an AD who is apparently in conflict with arguably one of the best coaches in the history of our program?
December 21st, 2023 at 8:57 PM ^
Rumor is Warde is friends with Jim Stapleton who doesn't like Harbaugh and he is a booster. Dunno how credible this is but that is the rumor heard in here.
December 21st, 2023 at 9:18 PM ^
Still makes no sense. Warde should know Harbaugh is a moneymaker for the program. All things considered, he’s probably only behind Saban as far as revenue driver - even a successful coach like Ryan Day doesn't drive a fraction of the attention that Jim does.
There are plenty of instances in a professional setting where a “friend” of a boss doesn’t like an employee or whatever the case is here. Most instances , nothing happens because everyone is a professional. I can’t believe anything Stapleton can offer is a fraction of what Jim offers - once again, just doesn’t pass the smell test.
I think JUB has one side of the story as a source, but he’s obviously missing a lot of context.
December 22nd, 2023 at 3:59 PM ^
Plenty of workplaces have irrational, petty, blindsided, biased people in charge.
December 22nd, 2023 at 12:35 AM ^
At what point do these administrators start acting like adults instead of Jr high girls? They probably tickle each other's dicks as their secret handshake.
December 22nd, 2023 at 12:49 AM ^
I just assume the people who spread this rumor are doing so because they dislike Warde, believe Stapleton is a malevolent actor, and are willing to believe (or at least act like they believe) the very worst possible things they can believe about someone they dislike to back up their opinions. Because I've seen absolutely zero evidence that Warde influenced by a hostile actor trying to damage Michigan's program, as Stapleton is rumore to be.
The concept doesn't pass the smell test and it falls apart under even slight logical scrutiny. But it's a nice piece of fodder for internet anger.
In other words, people who spread this rumor around actively undercut their case and lose respect.
Take that for what it's worth.
December 22nd, 2023 at 12:54 AM ^
Ahh, so its James Yoder level at this point.
December 21st, 2023 at 9:03 PM ^
I think Warde was pleasuring himself for cutting Harbaugh’s salary in half, and now that the turntables, Warde knows that a man in his position should not be made to look ridiculous
December 21st, 2023 at 8:32 PM ^
Bacon said Jim isn’t swayed by money, but rather “bear hugs”.
Hackett got Jim with bear hugs.
Ono, the board, and the fans have all given him bear hugs.
Warde hasn’t, allegedly.
My initial reaction was:
1) grow up Jim
2) fire Warde.
But then I was reminded that this is the same Jim Harbaugh that told San Fran GM Trent Baalke to leave a team room because “it’s for men only.”
So we’re to believe Jim is butt hurt because Warde - his former teammate and current ‘boss’ - hasn’t coaxed Jim’s feelings?
Nope. Not buying it.
December 21st, 2023 at 8:37 PM ^
Bacon could be wrong. Absolutely.
But if it's not that, what? We know that Ono stepped over Warde last offseason. It was public. *Something* is up here.
December 21st, 2023 at 9:00 PM ^
Given Warde's handling of Hockey Coach situation and one person not embracing Harbaugh, I am not sure if your argument holds up.
I am not saying SF GM isn't right, but there has to be more to it for Harbaugh to react to him that way. Don't you think? There is two sides to every story.
December 21st, 2023 at 9:56 PM ^
“There’s 2 sides to every story”
Precisely. And we never, ever heard the real story from either side. Every year it's the same thing: Warde sucks, Jim doesn’t feel the love, and he’s headed to the NFL. And thus far, Jim’s actions have shown that he wants to coach at Michigan.
December 21st, 2023 at 11:00 PM ^
Actually three sides to every story. Yours mine and the cold hard truth. I’m guessing the truth lies somewhere between their two stories
December 22nd, 2023 at 2:27 PM ^
Bacon does have very good sources when it comes to Harbaugh.
Just see 2015 when the national media was saying there's no chance Harbaugh was coming here and Bacon and others like Sam Webb were saying the complete opposite.
December 21st, 2023 at 8:37 PM ^
If true, what’s up with Warde? Real question. In that situation, if I’m him, I let any personal feelings go. Harbaugh wins, the financial has to be healthy, etc… So what’s the real beef?