MBB vs. PSU postgame snowflakes thread
Our guys looked pretty jittery, with Wheeler forcing some turnovers and a surprising amount of unforced errors.
Dickinson continues to be a force, but had to work more, even against an undersized front court.
The players, and particularly Brooks and Brown, are excellent on-ball defenders. Help defense tends to be too late.
What did you all notice?
December 13th, 2020 at 4:41 PM ^
I noticed allowing 0 points over the last 2:39. Amazing and clutch D down the stretch.
December 13th, 2020 at 4:42 PM ^
Good win...please play Williams more! With Davis out he should’ve gotten a lot more clock in this game.
December 14th, 2020 at 10:05 AM ^
Agreed. But don't let him go to the free throw line.
December 13th, 2020 at 4:43 PM ^
I noticed I missed the game! I thought today was Saturday - DOH!!
December 13th, 2020 at 4:44 PM ^
...and then I double posted.
December 13th, 2020 at 4:45 PM ^
Post this exactly eight more times and your sports fan sin may be forgiven.
December 13th, 2020 at 4:44 PM ^
Love love Chaundee Brown Jr on both ends of the floor, pound for pound, considering his role and execution, he might be the best player on the team.
Wagner and Livers leaving a bit to be desired for me - Idk but to me it seems like Wagner tries to force the play when the ball is in his hands, rather than letting it come to him. I think they'll figure it out, but some heartburn inducing moments in the interim
The freshmen looked great, and I liked the guard play.
Penn State baited us with their pressure when they were on D and we played in to it far too often imo.
This team looks like it will have a ton of "atta boy" moments, but with some "ohhh shit" moments too, but it should be fun.
December 13th, 2020 at 4:51 PM ^
Agree but the best player on the team should score more than zero points
December 13th, 2020 at 4:45 PM ^
I love how they look for good shots on offense but against Big Ten teams and good defenses they will need to take quick open looks rather than wide open. Penn State recovered fast on d and we passed up open shots that in the future they will need to take as it’s tough to get two good looks per possession.
December 13th, 2020 at 4:59 PM ^
I think this is Wagner’s biggest problem right now. He holds the ball for a second trying to decide if he is going to shoot, drive or pass. Livers, Brooks and Brown are much better at getting off quick shots while they are briefly open.
December 13th, 2020 at 6:17 PM ^
Wagner’s corner three miss is the epitome of this. When we were recruiting him, everyone mentioned how quick his release is. Today, he was really hesitant to shoot. I think he needs to let the game come to him. He either doesn’t look to shoot, or he forces it. He needs to just play within the flow of the offense. Don’t overthink it.
December 13th, 2020 at 4:46 PM ^
Brooks and Smith both had good games. As the season goes along that Smith-Dickinson pick and roll will be lethal! Wagner will be ok but he has to keep his emotions in check.
December 13th, 2020 at 4:46 PM ^
Seemed like we were pretty disjointed on our rebounding strategy. I remember times when Dickinson or whoever boxes out for someone else to get the board....and the ball falls to floor with no Michigan player near and PSU gets the ball uncontested. We just didn’t have bodies down there other times. It was maddening and was a huge reason this wasn’t a comfortable win. They shot 30% and took 20 more shots.
December 13th, 2020 at 4:53 PM ^
Agree. On every shot, Dickinson looks for a body to block out even if it takes him away from the basket. He is the only one who does this consistently. Whoever coached him in the past should be proud of his fundamentals.
December 13th, 2020 at 5:03 PM ^
Yes he does this every time but his teammates I guess aren’t expecting him to because he’s f’n 7’2”. This seems like an easy fix but it’s still frustrating to see game 6
December 13th, 2020 at 4:46 PM ^
Dickinson had a good game, needs to work on boxing out. Our guards need to crash down on defensive rebounds. The pick and roll needs to be better; felt like multiple times Dickinson set a monster screen only for ball reversal on the perimeter. Wagner struggled with making wrong cuts on the offense and Livers/Brown having an off night didn't help.
OTOH, I thought Wagner/Brown played really good defense and Dickinson was a really good paint presence there. The crisp passing at the end of the first half was a sight to behold. I'd like to see Smith hunt his own shot a little bit more, and play off-ball a bit more with Brooks in the game. Lots of room to improve, but overall lots of good and bad.
December 14th, 2020 at 8:27 AM ^
Wagner good defense and rebounding Looks slow going to the basket tired of his whining
December 13th, 2020 at 4:46 PM ^
Rebounding needs to get better. Offense stagnated at points, but that's expected against our first real tests. Franz will hopefully find a more established role in the offense soon.
We still won our first real test by 4 when the KenPom spread was 6. We were up 15 at one point which showed our ceiling. And the defense has improved wildly since games 1/2.
This team clearly has some things to work on, but it's looking like a solid top half team in the B1G. How far into that top half depends on how much we improve/how much more consistent we get.
December 13th, 2020 at 4:48 PM ^
Really wish Franz developed a quicker release over the offseason. He has so many looks that he ends up wasting w the defender closing out late.
December 13th, 2020 at 5:06 PM ^
If you ask Ace he does have a quick release. I don’t think it matters much because the shot isn’t going to go in consistently anyway.
December 13th, 2020 at 5:39 PM ^
His elbow isn’t under the ball until after he lifts. He will never be consistent if this keeps up
December 13th, 2020 at 5:50 PM ^
Yea he was claimed to have had a quick release in his recruiting profiles/posts way back when and I disagreed then and still don't think he has a quick release.
December 13th, 2020 at 4:49 PM ^
I would have liked to see the offense generate at least a couple of open looks for Livers, Brown, Brooks, or Smith in the 2nd half. 0 3s in a half makes it very difficult to win. Wagner seems to be a worse shooter than he was last year.
December 13th, 2020 at 4:52 PM ^
Livers did get some open looks in the 2nd half - but it he missed them. 0-3 from three today for Isaiah. I agree, Franz does not seem confident from three. He did have on quick release that looked confident on the possession immediately after making two free throws. Other than that, he does not seem to be looking for the three point shot.
December 13th, 2020 at 4:58 PM ^
As noted earlier, Wagner’s long windup on his shot is different. His shot starts at his stomach/chest as opposed to his shoulders/head.
December 13th, 2020 at 4:50 PM ^
Really hope Johns can pull it together at some point because he clearly has the physical tools. But he has way too many turnovers, most of which are unforced.
December 13th, 2020 at 4:53 PM ^
He is kind of like a wild stallion. Incredible (but unbridled) athleticism.
December 13th, 2020 at 5:03 PM ^
He needs to learn to protect the ball better, especially against a pressure team.
December 13th, 2020 at 4:52 PM ^
If M can take care of the ball, they are a threat in the conference. If they don't, we get what we saw today.
December 13th, 2020 at 4:54 PM ^
I will take a win over a high quality team every time (what we saw today)
December 13th, 2020 at 5:04 PM ^
Any win in conference is a good win. But if you don't take care of the ball, you have to barely hang on at home against a team projected to finish in the bottom 2 or 3 of the conference. Do that against Iowa/Illinois/MSU/Wisconsin and you lose by 20. Hopefully they learn a lesson from this one without actually losing the game.
December 13th, 2020 at 5:12 PM ^
I agree in principle. Taking care of the ball is important. However, penn state is not a bottom two or three B1G team. They just crushed a top 15 team on the road. They boast two of the best on ball defenders in the conference. They will post a ton of turnovers against other good teams as well. Good teams can win ugly games against this kind of team. I am not saying we are great, but I think today’s was a very good win - without a caveat.
December 13th, 2020 at 5:19 PM ^
Even if they finish bottom 3 of the bigten they will still prob be a top 50 or so team on Kenpom and Net
December 14th, 2020 at 11:00 AM ^
Weird game. Penn State's pressure D and effort will keep them in a lot of games. They are gritty and talk a lot of shit. Teams that are not ready for that are going to find themselves on the wrong side of a dogfight. They only shot about 32% but it seemed like they had multiple prayers go in too--could have been worse! At least three times they made unlikely baskets as the clock was expiring.
The only way Michigan wins this game is they have a high quality post threat now. Last year we lose that game because PSU was closing out on shooters really well. Very few uncontested shots like we were seeing in non-conference play. But if you can toss it in to a 7 footer who can finish this well, it's always there to bail you out.
December 13th, 2020 at 4:53 PM ^
The best 2 people to get the ball to Hunter down low are Franz and Williams. Livers is prob 3rd and Brown 4th. Our 2 guards are short and they have issues throwing it in there.
Williams needs a lot more run, they need to figure out which lineup he fits best with and put him out there with them.
Franz needs to back his man down low more like he did on one play tonight.
I think we need to keep changing up defenses. Id like to see Wagner or Brown out top in a 1-2-2.
I think Hunter got away with not jumping in high school but he's gonna have to develop a little vertical. He works with position and length right now but taller players are gonna hit 6-8 footers if he's gonna stand flat footed.
Gritty win against a team that was allowed to mug at will and a horrible offensive showing. We are 6-0 and there's room for improvement.
December 13th, 2020 at 4:54 PM ^
I noticed that Davis is a key component in the rotation this year. His absence was missed in the second half as Penn State started to play better. Another big body to spell Hunter is key (despite hunter playing amazingly).
December 13th, 2020 at 4:58 PM ^
The Good:
- Hunter Dickinson. Best freshman we've had since...Jamal Crawford? I guess you argue Iggy, but he never really took over games like Dickinson has already
- Defense! Better!
- Free throws! Everyone made them except a freshman big! Gotta get the ball out of his hands in an end of game situation when they're fouling, but glad everyone else has been sinking them
- Undefeated and sole possession of first place in the Big Ten! (let me have this)
The Bad:
- Franz and Livers. Franz is only a sophomore, but he hasn't flashed really at all this year. Livers can't have 1-7 games as a senior. Inexcusable
- Chaundee Brown was a ghost on offense. He needs to be a contributor in big ten play if we want to make noise. Was a bit worried his early success was opponent dependent. Hope he proves me wrong
- Not a single game complaint, but I really miss Yaklich's "NO THREES" defense. I'm sure it's more complex to teach than it seems, but the logic is so good and I wish that was the heart of our defense still
December 13th, 2020 at 5:05 PM ^
There was a freshman named Trey Burke who led us to our first B1G crown in ages. He also won conference Freshman of the year that season. Dickinson is special, but Burke is easily the best first year player we’ve seen in these parts in some time.
December 13th, 2020 at 5:06 PM ^
Trey Burke maybe?
December 13th, 2020 at 7:45 PM ^
I was with you until Chaundee Brown. He didn't score, but CB played some good defense today.
December 14th, 2020 at 8:54 AM ^
Yeah I disagree on the Brown and Livers takes. Both played awesome D. They kept highlighting Brown's D, but in one of the clips of him denying his guy the ball you could see Livers doing the exact same thing.
Sometimes you just have an off shooting night. If you can still be in the positive for defense alone on those nights, I want you on the court.
December 13th, 2020 at 5:01 PM ^
Every conference win is big - really happy they held on.
To me, what stood out was the team's composure down the stretch. Played smart on both ends.
Dickenson is a fucking beast - really impressive B1G debut!
December 13th, 2020 at 5:03 PM ^
Not sure what to say considering penn state was picked dead last in the conference..
About as bad as us celebrating rutgers in football
December 13th, 2020 at 5:06 PM ^
They just beat a top 15 team earlier this week.
December 13th, 2020 at 5:16 PM ^
by 20 points, too. they beat them like a rented mule.
December 13th, 2020 at 5:40 PM ^
Now wait a minute, is a rented mule more beatable than an owned mule?
I just know you're the guy to answer this question!
December 13th, 2020 at 6:20 PM ^
the really old line used to be 'like a red-headed step child' but maybe i'd only use that if we were playing ohio or something.
December 14th, 2020 at 12:29 PM ^
Depends on if you bought the mule insurance when you rented it. If you did, beat away. If you didn't, they'll charge you for any little scratch.
December 13th, 2020 at 5:10 PM ^
Your lack of basketball knowledge is showing