Matt Hayes article on the investigation
I did a search on this and did my best to look at everything I could and can't see that I've duplicated effort. Additionally, I'm sure this could be viewed as more info on a topic we already know about, but a very supportive take on the road ahead of the program, and somewhat gives me some hope that this will eventually blow over.
Matt Hayes article, again during my search couldn't find anything suggesting his stuff was verboten, that feels essentially says that unless there is direct video evidence of wrong doing, the charges won't stick. He also takes a few shots at sparty, which made me laugh.
A childish, transparent and overreaching second run at a coach who embarrassed the NCAA the last time they had him square in their infractions sights — and you better believe the NCAA will do everything it can to make sure it doesn’t happen again.
This group of enforcement misfits — honestly, there’s no other way to say it — who have failed/botched/lost in court with nearly every single significant enforcement case, is coming after Harbaugh with an infraction that will be next to impossible to prove.
We'll see, it sounds like it will be quite a while before any investigation is complete and any sort of infractions could be made...besides who knows where Harbaugh will be employed by that point. I'm hoping still in Ann Arbor, but Jim gonna do Jim.
Link: https://saturdaytradition.com/michigan-football/hayes-jim-harbaugh-is-laughing-at-the-ncaa-while-leading-michigans-playoff-bid/
October 23rd, 2023 at 12:29 PM ^
Seems to me it will be very easy to prove or disprove. Stallion makes allegedly 55K per year as an analyst so if he is travelling to games he doesnt make enought to "eat" the cost of airfare, fuel, hotel, meals, ect so those costs are absolutely going to be on a university expense account/credit card or they're not.
And if he outsourced the work to the "vast network" I would bet anything they would want some sort of payment/renumeration for their time and trouble for attending and recording the signals for him. And again, he doesnt make enough to cover those on his own, he would absolutely have to submit them for reimbursement.
The proof is either on or not on the expense accounts IMO.
Edit: Looks like we're about to find out cause he apparently absolutely DID buy tickets to other games. Did he pay for it out on his own for his love of Michigan or was he reimbursed. If it's the latter we are going to get fucked.
October 23rd, 2023 at 12:32 PM ^
The NCAA is not a police force and has no subpoena power. If I were in charge of this, all their requests for documentation would be politely ignored.
October 23rd, 2023 at 12:36 PM ^
I absolutely agree. But Warde has shown that he is one of the few idiots out there that won't do that. God, I can't believe I'm saying this, but we need Dave Brandon to be an assistant AD of enforcement or something to be in charge of this.
October 23rd, 2023 at 12:37 PM ^
Go to bed. You're drunk.
October 23rd, 2023 at 12:39 PM ^
I'm no Warde cheerleader, but I really don't think the solution is as simple as overt defiance. My understanding (perhaps incorrectly) is that the NCAA could slap Michigan with Level 1 non-cooperation violations if they refused to hand over the laptop, and use the non-compliance as evidence of guilt. The NCAA may lack the subpoena power to force Michigan to cooperate, but they don't lack the power to punish Michigan if they refuse to cooperate.
October 23rd, 2023 at 12:40 PM ^
If we don't think Michigan would do this, how did they get the hamburger receipt?
October 23rd, 2023 at 12:45 PM ^
This. I don't understand the consistent demands that Warde tell the NCAA to "fuck off." The NCAA certainly does have the power to slap some sanctions on a program, if it wishes, and taking a hostile and aggressive (not to mention childish and vulgar) position against the organization is flat-out stupid.
Seems to me he's doing the right thing. Being polite, being agreeable, announcing a complete openness and preparedness to working with the NCAA in its investigation.
Whether he does completely open the program up to the NCAA investigation is another question, and is one the answer to which we knuckleheads on this blog comment board will never know. But claiming he will is just smart.
October 23rd, 2023 at 12:58 PM ^
What is there to lose by "taking a hostile and aggressive position," though? The NCAA clearly already has a grudge against U-M, and is looking for anything and everything they can to hurt the football program. If there is a penalty for noncompliance, then a bunch of other schools that have told the NCAA to fuck off would be suffering it now.
October 23rd, 2023 at 12:58 PM ^
What sanctions would those be now? Scholarships? My walk ons now have NIL deals. CFP? No jurisdiction. Only thing I figure they could do is not invite your tournament eligible basketball team to the NCAAs next year
October 23rd, 2023 at 1:43 PM ^
I assume they could threaten a show-cause against Harbaugh and any other coach for non-cooperation.
October 24th, 2023 at 8:27 PM ^
Oooooooooooo
October 23rd, 2023 at 1:42 PM ^
You're correct that no one outside the program knows exactly what is happening, but some of the insider stuff that got out about the cheeseburger was that UM was like 'ok, we're taking this seriously even though it's not a big deal, we'll cooperate and we can find an amicable deal'. To which the NCAA said 'WHOOHOO NOWS OUR CHANCE BOYS LETS SHOW EM WE MEAN BUISNESS!!1!'. UM does not have to completely ignore the NCAA. But they don't also have to work with them beyond the letter of the rules. Like you never cooperate with the police thinking they'll go easy on you. Get a lawyer, stonewall. They'll throw the book at you no matter how cooperative you are. It seems the NCAA is treating UM the same way. There is a reason the Kansas investigation took like years and Tennessee got like 20 Level 1 (ONE!) violations recently and nothing happened to those programs or coaches.
October 23rd, 2023 at 12:51 PM ^
I doubt that Stalions work laptop has anything incriminating, and NCAA has no authority to obtain his personal phone, personal computer and personal bank account.
October 23rd, 2023 at 12:55 PM ^
How can they punish Michigan if someone doesn't want to give their personal device to them? That seems like a massive overreach on their part and I feel like that could be illegal. You can't coerce a school to coerce an individual to give up their personal property just because the NCAA doesn't have the ability to do it themselves legally.
October 23rd, 2023 at 1:46 PM ^
If he's using his personal cell phone for work, it's no longer "personal". I work in a heavily litigated field and we never, ever, intermingle our personal cell phones with work. I am not sure the NCAA has the bylaws that allow them to get their hands on it but is generally a bad idea to mix your work with a personal phone.
October 23rd, 2023 at 2:13 PM ^
The laptop could… “no longer exist”
October 23rd, 2023 at 12:40 PM ^
I'm asking because I don't know. Is that information available via FOIA?
October 23rd, 2023 at 12:50 PM ^
Maybe, but you have to make a very specific request of known records for them to comply. No record will state, “Payment rendered for surreptitiously recording opponent football teams.”
At the very least, they would have to know where the money came from and to whom.
October 23rd, 2023 at 1:59 PM ^
Since we are a public university couldn't the NCAA just FOIA any expense reports?
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:23 PM ^
No upside in disclosure
October 23rd, 2023 at 12:34 PM ^
There is a middle ground possibility is that his "spies" were volunteer fans who didn't have many expenses and were fine paying any expenses they did incur. There is little to no chance there is a financial paper trail that goes back to the University. That would require the complicity or outright involvement of dozens of administrators in the Athletics Department.
October 23rd, 2023 at 12:37 PM ^
Matt Dudek is frantically printing fake receipts as I type.
October 23rd, 2023 at 12:53 PM ^
That sounds a bit like what Sopwith was stating.
October 23rd, 2023 at 1:46 PM ^
Almost. These weren't even fans of Michigan. These were random students on the campuses with games of interest. Yes, some expenses were paid, but these were not commercial scouting services, these were just individuals who might not have known or cared about any link to Michigan.
The reason that may make a difference is that in the legislative history of the NCAA Rule 11.6, this bit was proposed and then later removed before the rule was finalized (thanks to fellow MGoLawyer for digging this up):
11.6.4.1 Use of Commercial Entity. It shall be permissible in all sports for an institution to obtain video of a future opponent's athletics contests for scouting purposes from a commercial entity that provides video recording/dubbing services, provided the institution requesting the video pays no fees or expenses related to obtaining the video of the future opponent's athletics contests, except for providing a blank videotape or DVD (or other medium) and paying postage costs.
That carve-out was removed, making it prohibited to purchase such tapes from a commercial entity. But that adds some context to interpreting rule 11.6.1 in that it could be reasonably argued that the prohibition on in-person scouting was always about (1) staff of the schools themselves or (2) commercial entities providing a service, NOT amateur fans going to games and making videos, which during drafting of the rule might never even have been considered as something useful (and therefore no need to prohibit).
There is no other videotaping prohibition in the rules. So that just leaves "in person scouting," which isn't the case here. Michigan staffers were not attending future opponent games as far as I know. Again, this could come down to a "spirit of the rule" vs. "what the rule actually says."
October 23rd, 2023 at 2:31 PM ^
Ok, I have a problem with people selling their season tickets to rival visitors, but I get it.
Agreeing to record your team's sideline for an upcoming opponent, however? That's an amazing level of betrayal. Were U-M undergrad alumni or something?
October 23rd, 2023 at 2:43 PM ^
It's not that bad. Imagine Future Michigan Opponent University (FMOU) is playing a game at Local Podunk U (LPU). LPU student takes some video of FMOU sideline from the home side of the stadium. So she's not selling out LPU at all.
October 23rd, 2023 at 12:36 PM ^
Remuneration?
October 23rd, 2023 at 12:49 PM ^
What are you, the Typo S.S.? Did you put the picture up at Spartan Stadium?
Also, username checks out re: spygate (obligatory).
October 23rd, 2023 at 12:50 PM ^
re·mu·ner·a·tion
/rəˌmyo͞onəˈrāSH(ə)n/
noun
-
money paid for work or a service
October 23rd, 2023 at 1:11 PM ^
That's his point. Typo in the OP.
October 23rd, 2023 at 12:37 PM ^
I could easily see something where Stallions was asking some buddies to go watch a football game and take some recordings on their iphone and send to him. Buddies were happy to do so without any payment; maybe they just like football or were going to a game anyway.
October 23rd, 2023 at 12:53 PM ^
Or simply post video clips on their social network, and say "hey check out this!".
October 23rd, 2023 at 12:58 PM ^
I could easily see something where Stallions was asking some buddies to go watch a football game and take some recordings on their iphone and send to him
Wouldn't those buddies have to have good enough seats and a good enough camera to capture those signs? This whole operation would require more planning than people think. Probably would need multiple people at each game as well. One to actually film the signals and one to actually film what's happening on the field. I just feel like there is no financial or logistical way any of the allegations are true
October 24th, 2023 at 9:52 AM ^
Shouldn't be all that hard to synch the sideline video with the all-22 or the tv feed. No need to film the field.
October 23rd, 2023 at 3:48 PM ^
The tickets would be the arguable remuneration.
October 23rd, 2023 at 12:39 PM ^
What you are saying makes sense but turning in payments for reimbursement would (obviously) mean that other administrators/staff members knew what was going on. I may be the last guy left in Naivetown and need to shut off the lights when I leave but so far I don't believe that other program insiders knew what Connor was up to.
I agree with Dan Wetzel who says that while nobody outside seems to know anything for sure, the Occam's Razor theory of the situation is that Connor was acting on his own, likely in an attempt to look amazingly good at his job, and that no one within the program/department knew that he involved outside parties (if he in fact did so).
I get your point that he couldn't realistically afford to pay any outside parties for their efforts and/or travel expenses, so I don't have a good theory on how that might have worked. So TL;DR Maybe I'm just a homer in denial. But having acknowledged that I prefer the Occam's Razor theory.
October 23rd, 2023 at 12:50 PM ^
He was a Naval Officer (and I heard he was previously also an officer in the Marines - not sure if that is true).
He could easily have friends all around the country.
October 23rd, 2023 at 12:58 PM ^
a vast network of friends, if you will
October 23rd, 2023 at 1:12 PM ^
One of my closest friends is a USNA grad and the amount of friends he has is absolutely insane. Seems like no matter what city he's in he's got a buddy. So I imagine Connor is the same. Each one of those friends would take a bullet for the other too, so good luck with this investigation.
October 23rd, 2023 at 12:40 PM ^
There are photos of him on the Michigan sidelines during games. The only games he could have traveled to are the rare Thursday/Friday night games. So then the remaining issue is this: is his vast network of covert operatives who recorded games for him considered to be University personnel covered by NCAA Bylaw 11.whatever.the.fuck? It’s laughable.
Stalions was a volunteer coach for 6-7 years before finally getting a paid job last year. He paid for his trips to UofM by renting out rooms on Airbnb, or something like that. He’s not going to bill the university to pay for his buddies to tape games.
October 23rd, 2023 at 12:40 PM ^
I believe the vast network is a reference to people already living in those locations who attend games. There are more than enough of them in NY and Ohio to watch Rutgers and OSU, who are the likely complainants.
October 23rd, 2023 at 12:55 PM ^
Schiano has strongly come out and said that he had nothing to do with this. On Saturday, he even asked the media at his press conference "how did I get dragged into this?".
He could easily just keep his mouth shut if he was involved but doesn't want any smoke.
My guess is OSU and Indiana - based on the 1st quarter of that game, I could see a scenario where they were giving us fake signals and running plays to take advantage of that. Michigan obviously would have realized that at some point just played them straight up and kicked their ass.
If Indiana did that, mad props to them. That is exactly what you should do if you think someone is stealing your signals.
October 23rd, 2023 at 1:01 PM ^
based on the 1st quarter of that game, I could see a scenario where they were giving us fake signals and running plays to take advantage of that
Wasn't our game against Indiana literally their OC's first game? It would be impossible to steal their signs in that case
October 23rd, 2023 at 1:07 PM ^
Not if they knew we were doing them and intentionally used fake old signs - LOL :)
October 23rd, 2023 at 1:48 PM ^
He was on staff already. I assume they would use the same signs, seeing as how teams apparently don't change signs as a matter of course week to week.
October 23rd, 2023 at 12:43 PM ^
And if he outsourced the work to the "vast network" I would bet anything they would want some sort of payment/renumeration for their time and trouble for attending and recording the signals for him.
I doubt it. I bet the “vast network” are just random friends and friends of friends who like to go to football games. None of this sounds like a well coordinated scheme implemented by anyone on the top.
October 23rd, 2023 at 1:44 PM ^
The vast network would include anyone in the USMC. The NCAA better think twice about who they are targeting.
October 23rd, 2023 at 12:44 PM ^
People would do that for free. I agree that if he did it, there would be expense report trail, but not for the 'others'.
October 23rd, 2023 at 12:47 PM ^
Harbaugh would have to be clinically insane to deny having any knowledge of this if he were signing off on the Stallion's (or other staffers') expense reports. You would just say that I cannot speak about an active investigation and not deny something that is easily proven.
Its next to impossible that Stallions was traveling on his own since he was also at the Michigan games so I don't see how he could have gone to more than maybe one or two other team's game to advance scout - unless he had free use of a private jet (even then). Could they have sent other staffers? Possible but again unllikely as they would have to be doing it without the knowledge of Harbaugh and Manual
Thus, on the assumption that there was some sort of advance scouting done, my guess is that Stallion used his network of friends and contacts (he was an officer in the Navy - and I believe I heard also the Marines - so it is reasonable that he knows people all around the country).
Would they do it for free? Maybe he just buys their tickets? And they do the work for free? I guess that is possible. If this is true, I am not even sure it is against the rules albeit it is against the spirit of the rules.
October 23rd, 2023 at 12:47 PM ^
The only other thing I can think of would be if he was bugging the coaches box or sidelines. That is the one thing here that would be over the top and anybody who knew about it should be immediately fired. No matter who.
Of course, this still wouldn't explain the away games and why would we be bugging ECU, UNLV or Bowling Green. Schiano has said very strongly that he is not involved in this matter.
So that pretty much leaves Indiana - perhaps that is how they were tricking us in the 1st quarter, signing in a play for Stallions to decode and then running a different play to take advantage. I woudl have a ton of respect for that. Exactly what you should do if you suspect sign stealing.