Math 115 vs Math 116
Alright, so I'm faced with a bit of a situation here...(and I'll probably get some comments complaining about freshmen). I'm sure you students/alumni have probably heard this debate a ton, but I just need some feedback.
So my problem is that I'm stuck trying to decide whether I should take Math 115 or Math 116 my first semester this fall. I talked with the math advisor, but at the time I had no idea of my AP status, but I have since found out that I have AP credit for Math 115, so there are basically 4 free credits there. However, I'm also taking Chem 210/211 (organic) this fall as part of my BME requirements. Switching out of Chem 210/211 isn't an option. I'm currently signed up for Math 116, but I'm hearing a lot of rabble from people that Calc II and Orgo together aren't exactly the best way to start out and I'm just setting myself up for failure. I thought I understood calc I enough, but I'm hearing a lot about a Michigan Difference in math that could give me a lot of trouble.
I hate to throw out free credits and retake a class, but it would be worse to just murder my gpa/soul if calc II is crazy. I'm just wondering if any of you out there have done this and/or know people who have, and how it went for you.
Other things to consider:
- I'm only signed up for 13 credits
- If I accept the AP calc credit and start with Math 116 I'll bring with me 13 credits from AP's (4 from calc, 4 from psychology, 5 from biology). If not I throw out 4 free credits and enter with 9
- I need a 3.2 gpa to declare BME my major
Thanks.
I advise you to take 115. You will make up the 4 credits at some point. Plus it's football season. I've had games at the Big House ruined due to taking on too much. Not fun. Be a freshman. Enjoy it but work hard (obviously) so you won't have to when you're 50.
... find something you love, doesn't seem like work, then you don't have to wait until you're 60 to have fun.
Take 115. I know a LOT of people that did this (I tested into 115), and you'll have big advantage and will be ahead of the curve vs. poor schmucks like me who were just seeing all of the 115 stuff the first time/hadnt taken calc I in high school.
I took 115 and 116 at Michigan just a few years ago and my experience was that the teachers have no idea how to teach. 116 was a serious waste of time. I had to work my ass off to figure it all out just to get a B+. I think I got a 25% on one of the exams, which was good for a B+. It was written to be tricky and not to test what one learned. I got 5/5 true false questions wrong (2^5 chance of that happening if randomly guessing). I took 215 at community college the following summer and found it refreshing to have a teach that actually could teach the material. I would take 116, 215, and perhaps 216 at community college in the summer. You will get a teacher that actually teaches and you will learn the material much better. It is when you get past the basic prerequisites such as 115, 116 and 215 that you start getting a higher caliber of professor, smaller class sizes, etc. Anyone else go this route?
I also took Orgo I my first semester and faced the same dilemma. I went with Calc I and don't regret it. You seem to have the same attitude that I did (smart but not entirely confident in yourself) so I suggest that.
Plus, if you play your cards right and switch your major halfway through, you can go 4 and a half years and get that extra football season, so that's another reason to go with Calc I.
Either way, welcome to the Michigan community. Glad to have you on board.
Why is this a binary choice? Do you HAVE to take 116 right now to get your AP credit? That was never the case when I was in school... especially in the COE where they just give you that credit for free.
If not, don't take math. Take Engin 100 and Engin 110. Take any random LSA intro 100 level class and get a self esteen A. Take a guaranteed A lecture series class. You have to fill those SS/HU credits at some point, might as well take the easy classes with orgo. This leaves you more time to make friends and I think its a better transition to college.
If you are dead set on taking Calc 2, I'd recommend looking into Math 156, Honors Calc 2. You do a lot more proofs and much less grunt work. You're prepared a bit better for any level of Calc 3, and don't have to take Gateways, Your class size are also around 25 people, which is about 1/5 of your standard Calc 2 class. It is slightly harder than normal Calc 2, but as long as you put in work and show up to class, nobody ever outright fails. I think you'll get a slightly better average professor quality there as well. I thought my instructor was pretty good, and outside of 156, he taught classes in the 400 levels.
Your class size are also around 25 people, which is about 1/5 of your standard Calc 2 class.
Has this changed? When I took 116 (Winter '02) our class was about 20. Calc III and Diff Eq. were both big lectures with discussion sections though.
I'd second this suggestion of 156 over 116. I didn't find it that challenging, and it definitely seemed like fewer people failed than the stories I heard from 116. For my freshman year, I was in Math 156, Physics 160 and I had an 8 credit RC intensive Spanish course. It turned out that apart from a spring semester, it was my best semester GPA during my time there.
I found that in general when I was taking more/harder classes I usually did better since I knew I had to study and it kept me on top of everything. When I took easier semesters I tended to fall behind more and ended up cramming for exams since I'd blow off studying the week leading up to them.
Which Engin 100/101 are you taking? 100 can be a huge time commitment depending on what prof you have and if you're not too good at computer programming 101 can also be a bitch.
But as for your actual question, two friends of my mine had the same dilemna coming into freshman year. One decided to beef up his calc 1 skills and retake 115 even though he had the AP credit, he ended up slacking in the class because "he knew everything" and got like a b minus or something. The other decided to do 116, stayed on top of everything and got an A. I'm not sure if it's changed but 4 years ago 116 didn't require you to turn in homework every week, but they would still give you practice problems.
If you're confident with your math ability and your ability to stay on top of your work, I'd say go for 116. I went straight to 215, and with a similair schedule to yours (also 13 credits, easier chem, but working on the side), got an A+ in 215 including a 100% on the final.
Some more info for you to consider:
4 years ago, Fall Semester, 116 was:
- Taught by professors and GSI's. All luck of the draw
- In classes of about 25
- Had weekly group homework that was graded for correctness.
- Had weekly individual homework that was not turned in (maybe by instructor's choice).
- Had 2 mid-terms and a final
I transferred to Michigan after my first year of college at UM-Flint. I took 116 Fall semester after taking Pre-Calc and Calc at UMF (kinda shitty high school, tested into Pre-Calc despite taking "Honors Calc"). I was fairly prepared for the workload and knew what to expect. The freshmen (80% of class) in the class did not know what to expect. I swear when we got our first exams back that whole day was a bitch-fest that culminated in the prof having to give a lecture about how this is UM and not high school anymore and that 50% averages are not out of the norm and it's time to study for conceptual understanding and not for computing integrals.
Alright, I should get my AP scores this week, but since UM gave me credit I know that I got either a 4 or 5. For the record I took AB. It was the first class that actually challenged me in high school. It gave my my first ever B first semester, but 2nd semester I realized that I actually had to study for the first time ever and ended up with an A +(although it was only like a 50% since it was graded on the AP curve), on the exam and an A for the class. And I come from a pretty competetive high school. We had 19 people out of a class of 250 graduate with above a 4.0(our AP's were weighted) and 16 of us are going to UM this fall. So I guess I have a taste of competitiion, but I'm sure its nothing like the competition of UM.
And on the topic of switching away from BME until later...I'm not completely opposed to it, but what other major would you reccomend for someone looking into tissue engineering? Stem cells etc...
Thanks so much everyone for all of your replies. To be honest I was only expecting like 4-5 replies, so I was overjoyed this morning when I checked and found nearly 60. Shows that UM students/alumni truly are the victors and best.
For tissue engineering, it makes more sense (to me at least) to do your undergrad in BME. If you wanted to go into prosthetics, I could see mechanical as a better option. Some people will question your choice in specializing so soon, but if you're sure then go ahead. What I have personally heard from engineering advisors is that there is a lot more student interest in BME than there are BME jobs (which is the reasoning behind the GPA requirement), so make sure you're ready to put in the work to be extra throwing-elbows, everything-except-cheating competitive.
While you may really think you want to go into BME at this point, I suggest you try to take a few other coarses before locking yourself into engineering. Its a nice way to meet some non science/engineering types and I always found a class load with a few math/science courses and 1 humanities types class was more engaging. I really hated the semesters that were loading up with only sciences courses.
Plus they can be easy while still being entertaining and edifying. And who knows, you might find something you enjoy more than BME.
A BME undergrad degree is poorly suited for any sort of specialization -- i.e. tissue engineering. You will have spend no more than 16-24 hours your entire 4 years learning about tissue engineering from the basic curriculum. BME is essentially pre-med alternative classes (heavier math focus) and some extra engineering general courses. If you're confident you want to pursue tissue engineering as a career, BME isn't necessarily a terrible choice, as you'll be in school until you get your PhD, at which point your undergraduate degree doesn't really matter.
Pro-tip: join UROP or volunteer to do research in a cell signalling / tissue engineering lab. The closest you'll find is probably in Takayama's lab (for BME), which probably isn't what you're looking for when you say "tissue engineering" (generally speaking, his research focuses on devices that allow for controlled cell differentiation / verification of that process, and not the actual cells themselves). There is much more tissue-related research being conducted outside of the BME department (i.e. by hospital professors), or more typically, with only cursory BME involvement. Also suggest looking at CMB or MCDB (not sure which is the graduate degree).
Do not take Math 115 again if you don't have to.
If you're concerned you can't pass 116 right now because your Calc I understanding isn't THAT good, don't take Calc this semester and take some other easy 4 credits. Use time between semesters or time the rest of this summer to study/prepare for Calc II and you'll be fine.
Basically there's no reason to re-take 4 credits you already have. I know a lot of people who have done that because they "weren't comfortable" with Calc I, and they all regretted it. I was almost one of them, but I decided at the last minute to jump into Calc II right away, and while it was a lot of work, I'm glad I didn't waste the 4 free credits.
Take honors Calc II (I think it's 156). Seriously. 115 and 116 are notorious weeder courses, where the content isn't terribly hard, but the exams and homeworks are ramepd up. Honors math courses tend to be a bit more difficult in content, but are more lenient in grading and you learn more overall. As an engineer, the extra math base will be very useful in your upper level classes.