February 2nd, 2020 at 10:16 PM ^
And what is that lesson?
February 2nd, 2020 at 10:18 PM ^
See below. I hit post before it was ready.
Short version: Draft Tua, ditch Stafford.
February 2nd, 2020 at 10:24 PM ^
...and what in the last 60+ years of Lions football makes you think this will make a difference?
February 3rd, 2020 at 11:25 AM ^
If it were that easy to find a QB in the draft, more teams would do it.
Stafford is the best QB in Lions history. Over my lifetime alone, we've drafted Chuck Long, Andre Ware, and Joey Harrington with top-12 picks, drafted Drew Stanton and Charlie Batch with second-round picks, and handed big free agent contracts to Scott Mitchell and Jon Kitna. If finding a QB is as easy as drafting the next Mahomes, then good veteran QBs like Stafford wouldn't command $25-30M per year.
Yes, having an excellent QB on a rookie contract is the biggest advantage a team can have. But it seems completely backwards, to me, to look at the Lions and conclude that Stafford is the problem. If we tried your plan, we'd be more likely, statistically, to draft the next Trubisky than the next Mahomes.
February 3rd, 2020 at 12:39 PM ^
The Cowboys taught us the way to build is trade down for multiple draft picks and then don’t fuck it up. The last thing the snake bitten Lions should do is draft a player that high that may never play the same due to injury.
February 10th, 2020 at 1:04 PM ^
The Cowboys also stumbled into a Pro Bowl QB in the fourth round, which is statistically almost impossible. And even with that good luck, they still haven't made much noise in the playoffs.
February 3rd, 2020 at 2:28 PM ^
As a Lions fan for 50+ years I believe I have earned the right to not just comment with impunity on their past, but I can also see their future. To wit:
If the Lions are the Lions (and they are) we are sure to see 49ers DC Robert Saleh get snapped up as a head coach in the coming days/weeks and go on to be a very successful coach for another team. As a Detroit native, Saleh might be just the guy to turn the sorry franchise around, but alas they have doubled down on Matt Patricia for one more year and they will have missed their opportunity. The Lions will never be successful until the Fords sell the team but this will never happen because it is the only thing any of them have to do.
February 2nd, 2020 at 11:29 PM ^
Let the play develop
February 2nd, 2020 at 10:17 PM ^
Don't find new ways to lose every week?
February 2nd, 2020 at 10:17 PM ^
Alex Smith had thrown for 4000 yards and had a 104.7 rating in his last year as a KC starter.
They decided that Mahomes was the future and cut Smith loose anyway. And now look at where they are.
The Lions could learn from this and realize that Stafford isn’t the future and draft Tua.
Of course, being the Lions, they’ll fuck it up regardless of what they do.
February 2nd, 2020 at 10:20 PM ^
If they draft Tua he’ll get injured again and be out of the league in 3 years
February 2nd, 2020 at 10:21 PM ^
Funny that San Francisco decided the same thing when they moved on from Alex Smith and went to Kaepernick.
I like Tua but the lions have too many holes to fix and they’re in a prime position to move back, get more picks, and upgrade the team as a whole. Right now their best bet is to surround the team with talent so that when they do move on from Stafford, they’ll be ready to play with the big boys
February 3rd, 2020 at 6:37 AM ^
Obviously the lesson is do ditch Stafford for Alex Smith, and then ditch Alex Smith for a hot young QB
February 3rd, 2020 at 4:26 PM ^
I agree with this Squirrels, and IMO the 49rs represent a better blueprint for the Lions than KC.
Mahomes is lightning in a bottle - it's incredibly rare and fortunate to find a superstar QB. He also benefits from having Andy Reid as his HC. Almost all great QBs in NFL history have been paired with great coaches who complement each other.
SF was terrible post-Harbaugh. Lynch has done a great job rebuilding the roster. They purged aging stars, stockpiled draft picks, unearthed hidden gems and made savvy free agent acquisitions.
Like all teams, they've made good and bad moves (Reuben Foster, anyone?) - but in general their drafts have been strong.
Most important, they focused on the lines, especially D-Line.
Great D-line makes up for an average secondary. O-line and terrific blocking by TEs/WRs turns unheralded RBs into dangerous weapons, and minimize Jimmy G's limitations. Doesn't hurt to have safety valves like the two Samuels and Kittle.
I'd say there's more likelihood of building a good team from the inside. It's not sexy, but it's solid.
February 2nd, 2020 at 10:22 PM ^
If the Lions were already a team capable of going deep into the playoffs, then maybe they could afford to gamble on a guy who's already sustained two injuries requiring surgery—first on an ankle after two high sprains resulting on loss of PT, and the second for the dislocated hip.
But they're not—they've got major holes to fill, and it's idiotic to even contemplate risking a high first round draft choice on a guy with that injury history.
February 2nd, 2020 at 10:23 PM ^
Didn’t realize you were a doctor with access to Tua’s medical records.
And Stafford’s been a model of health the past two years
February 2nd, 2020 at 10:42 PM ^
"And Stafford’s been a model of health the past two years"
So let's draft a guy who suffered a very serious injury that ended his collegiate career two months ago, after already suffering a second ankle injury requiring surgery a month prior to that.
I'm not saying this because I'm a fan of Stafford—I think he's overrated and not close to being in the same category as elite QBs in the league—but the Lions can't afford to gamble with their high draft choices. They need proven difference-makers who are healthy and can contribute as soon as possible.
February 2nd, 2020 at 11:49 PM ^
Stafford is a top-5 QB.
Mahomes
Wilson
Jackson
Watson
Those are the only guys you'd definitely take over him.
February 3rd, 2020 at 12:13 AM ^
Brady, Rodgers, Brees, Prescott, Murray, Wentz. . .
Beyond that, I'd say there are a bunch of QBs that Stafford is pretty equivalent to and then a decent list of ones he's a clear upgrade from. He's okay. But unless your team is built like the 49ers or the Titans, okay isn't going to cut it.
February 3rd, 2020 at 9:30 AM ^
You'd take Brady, Brees or Rodgers? Unless you're all set for a Super Bowl run and just need a quarterback, I'd stay away. Brees is still playing at a high level, but he's 40. Rodgers is the youngest and probably worth a shot for a contender but he seems to have fallen off a little.
Even Tom Brady isn't immortal. At this point I wouldn't be surprised if he manages a few more years, but I would be surprised if he does it at a high level. Although he'd be a hell of a game manager...
February 3rd, 2020 at 9:54 AM ^
Brady, Brees, and Rodgers have all slipped noticeably in the past couple years.
Prescott is in no way better than Stafford.
I'll give you Wentz as a pick 'em and Murray if you were just basing it on chronological age.
People forget how good Stafford is just because he plays for the Lions.
February 4th, 2020 at 3:00 AM ^
This take couldn’t be more wrong. The Lions don’t need a safe pick. A safe pick is not going to pull the Lions out of 60 years of mediocrity. A team that has been as bad as the Lions needs to try to catch lightning in a bottle. A team as bad as the Lions has absolutely nothing to lose.
February 3rd, 2020 at 3:54 PM ^
2019 was the first year Stafford did not play in 16 games since 2010. He played 8 straight seasons playing in all 16 games (admittedly with some injuries where he missed portions). That's not all on a QB though, as we know.
February 2nd, 2020 at 10:26 PM ^
Yeah, the lie-downs already have that imbecile playing quarterback for them.
February 3rd, 2020 at 8:35 AM ^
they've got major holes to fill
This is exactly why I'd like to see us move on from Stafford. Use the cap savings to bolster the rest of the team. I think ditching Stafford for Tua is too risky though.
February 3rd, 2020 at 12:04 AM ^
The problem with your argument is that they had already decided Mahomes was the future when they drafted him. Smith was not their franchise QB. Furthermore, Smith's impressive numbers came the same way Garappolo's did. They had a great running game and were great with the play action because of it.
I saw Kansas City play a preseason game that year where Smith played the first quarter and Mahomes played the rest of the game. Mahomes lit it up and I was genuinely surprised when they started Smith for the year (it was the right call, Reid's patience really paid off with Mahomes). On the way home from the game all my friends and I could talk about was how that Mahomes guy was going to be the next great QB.
When the Lions can find a guy like that, I'm sure they'll take advantage of it. I would have agreed with the draft Tua part if he hadn't gotten hurt. Whoever drafts him is taking a pretty big risk. If the Lions want to know who to draft at QB. . .they should probably ask Andy Reid.
February 3rd, 2020 at 12:44 PM ^
For context, I'm a life long Chiefs fan.
I don't agree at all with your interpretation of Alex Smith's departure from KC. Smith was nearly universally viewed as a bridge QB that was being maximized by Reid's system until Reid IDed the QB he wanted and went and got him. He was an average NFL starter for his stretch in KC. He had a great season in 2017, sure, but his other seasons were just okay. From 2013-2016 he averaged about 3,400 yards passing, a 19:7 TD:INT ratio, and a rating of 92.3. Now, those are probably pretty close to Stafford numbers because he had some bad seasons when the team around him was bad.
Mahomes was drafted prior to the start of the 2017 season as well, so before the "great" 2017 season.
This feels like a solution in search of a problem. Mahomes is great. Stafford is an above average QB. But there is no guarantee that you are drafting Mahomes...
February 3rd, 2020 at 4:57 PM ^
The Lions can learn something form KC, but that isn't it.
KC has made the playoffs 15(!) times in the last 30 years. They've consistently done it by hiring proven, successful coaches such as Marty Shotenheimer, Dick Vermeil, Herm Edwards, and Andy Reid. When they didn't(Todd Haley, Romeo Crenel) they were utter trash.
Additionally they did this all by -not- drafting a QB in the first round every few years, but going for broke when they had the opportunity.
Honestly, if I were to pick a team to emulate here it would be the 49ers. As a Chiefs fan was amazed at how good that D was. Go for Defense and look for gems on the O line and at receiver later down in the draft.
February 2nd, 2020 at 10:18 PM ^
You could fill an ocean with the amount of people the Lions could learn from...
February 2nd, 2020 at 10:19 PM ^
I respect Mahomes a lot but you put him on the Lions and he is injured by week 5 and the Lions go 500 again. You have to have a lot of talent to win it all. Lions lack a vision.
February 2nd, 2020 at 10:27 PM ^
This * 1,000,000
Stafford on a competent football team would be mentioned in the same breath as Manning, Rogers, Brady, etc.
"Ditching" him for an unproven commodity is asinine.
February 2nd, 2020 at 10:35 PM ^
Yeah and if Dominique Wilkins had had better teammates, he’d in the same breath with Larry Bird, Magic Johnson and Michael Jordan......
I like Stafford and think he’s a gamer, but that statement is beyond idiotic. He’s had plenty of seasons where he’s been as much a problem as any other part of the team.
In the same breath as Brady, Manning and Rogers......Stay off the drugs FFS.
February 2nd, 2020 at 10:40 PM ^
Stay off the drugs FFS
How about you blow me. You're the fucking moron thinking Tua is the answer. Drugs indeed.
February 2nd, 2020 at 11:06 PM ^
This might be the dumbest thing I have ever read on this board
February 2nd, 2020 at 11:58 PM ^
Username checks out.
February 3rd, 2020 at 8:33 AM ^
They definitely have a vision and have shared it a million times from wanting to run ball, be a tough physical team and have a balanced attack etc....
The problem is they haven't been able to make the plan work, that's the problem
February 2nd, 2020 at 10:21 PM ^
Who cares about the Lions????
February 2nd, 2020 at 10:26 PM ^
You do realize that University of Michigan is located in Michigan?
Also the Detroit Lions are the NFL franchise located in Michigan?
Ergo, a lot of people who attended/cheer for Michigan, are from Michigan, and will also be fans of the Detroit Lions by virtue of that connection.
February 2nd, 2020 at 10:28 PM ^
I'm from Detroit.
I have 2 degrees from Michigan.
I'm smart enough to know the Fords could give two shits about putting a winner on the field... but they'll keep fleecing the people of Michigan, as you mention, for all their money -- just like they did getting a $400 MM stadium to house a bunch of losers.
@BLUEinRockford is correct.
February 2nd, 2020 at 10:40 PM ^
Then you’re a dipshit. Because 60,000+ fill up Ford Field almost every home game and the local sports media is always burning up the air with talk about the Lions. So clearly a lot of people care.
Blue in Rockford didn’t say anything about the Fords being a bunch of clowns, all he said was who cares about the Lions.
Nice attempt at a strawman though.
February 2nd, 2020 at 10:54 PM ^
60K other fucking morons just like yourself then feeding the Fords' bank account.
February 3rd, 2020 at 9:25 AM ^
Don't confuse not wanting to win with not knowing how to win.
The Lions have tried just about everything and never been cheap about it. They have tried to hire former Super Bowl coaches in mooch, Ross, Caldwell. Went outside the box with bringing in Matt Millen which actually worked for San Francisco with John Lynch coming from the announcers booth. Well known fact they have one of the nicer facilities in the league.
They haven't cut any corners or did anything out of the ordinary that shows they aren't trying. Plus the NFL is a salary cap league so they spend as much as all the others. No proof at all that they are doing anything different than anyone else.
If that has been there plan it's been been an awful one considering they are ranked 2nd to last by Forbes in value of an NFL franchise. They're not even coming close to maximizing on their profit if this is their plan.
As for the stadium being paid for, the Lions are in the top 10 in lowest percentage of taxpayer money used for stadium. This is just the way it is everywhere with these things esp nowadays with the newer stadiums
February 3rd, 2020 at 4:02 PM ^
Great chance to apply Hanlon's razor: Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity.
The Fords would gladly make this a good team that wins a lot (it would make them more money and more valuable). They just don't know how to do it.
February 2nd, 2020 at 10:24 PM ^
Not sure what the lesson is but they won't learn it
February 2nd, 2020 at 10:25 PM ^
The lie-downs and the Fords are too fucking stupid to learn anything from anybody. 60 years of pathetic ownership proves it, 1 measly playoff win.
Detroit fans, stop making the Fords rich, don't buy season tickets till they have a real team.
February 2nd, 2020 at 10:26 PM ^
A bad franchise can learn from a good one? Don't know man, that's kind of out there.
February 2nd, 2020 at 10:28 PM ^
Won’t matter. Leo’s are the Leo’s. Backward down the field...
February 2nd, 2020 at 10:33 PM ^
No. The Lions need to trade the #3 pick to Miami to swap firsts and get Miami’s next year #1. They then need to shop Stafford for the highest bidder. Tank next year. Then come 2021 they will have the #1 pick and take Lawrence along with at least 2 other 1st round picks and a ton of cap space.
That’s how it should be done but Quinn and Patricia will scrap like hell and probably go 6-10
February 2nd, 2020 at 11:05 PM ^
Lawrence doesn’t look like an NFL QB to me.
February 2nd, 2020 at 11:07 PM ^
Well he looks like one of the best NFL QB prospects of all time to most experts so I think Ill go with them
Ive always defended Stafford but if we had the chance at Lawrence I would take him in a heartbeat. Tua? No, keep Stafford.