Jadyn Davis and Elite 11 finals content
I may have missed it but I was wondering what went down at the Elite 11 finals so I went searching for content. Some mixed reviews coming in for Jadyn with some talk about that long backstroke many mentioned from the video posted in the last week vs Air Noland.
These things are a joke. About as predictive as the Underwear Olympics. No pressure, no threat of violence. No playbook driven into your marrow, no screaming fans, no pre/post-snap reads. All they're looking at is dudes chucking the rock under optimal conditions. Anyone who's played football knows it's much harder to throw and catch with pads and helmets on, and these kids are basically in their nylon-fiber underwear playing on the playground. The idea that someone's "intangibles" are inferred is bordering on absurd.
I predict I would do poorly in the underwear Olympics.
Worse than Brady?
Maybe better than Brady Hoke…
Zach Wilson politely disagrees as he believes evaluating QBs under no pressure, no threat of violence. No playbook driven into your marrow, no screaming fans, no pre/post-snap reads. All they're looking at is dudes chucking the rock under optimal conditions is the absolutely PERFECT conditions for optimal results.
The NY Jets front office also agrees with Zach.
To be fair, those conditions would indeed produce optimal results!
I think there is a decent amount of revisionist history when it comes to Zach Wilson. He was seen as the 2nd best or even best QB in the draft by a few analysts prior to his pro day. I think there is this weird narrative that has developed that the Jets drafted Wilson solely on his pro day, when that's just not the case. He's still awful, but that narrative just is wrong and irrationally annoys me
There's a bit of the same phenomenon at work re: the Pistons and Darko. People sometime talk like the Pistons were being so obviously dumb for taking Darko over several Hall of Famers, but the vast majority of the NBA seemed to have the same assessment of Darko as the clear #2 in that draft.
I don't believe that's accurate re: Darko.
It was widely thought that almost any other team except the Pistons would have taken Carmelo at 2. He just wasn't a fit for the team, position-wise or Bad Boy-ness wise.
There may have been some pushing for Bosh over Darko, just out of lack of trust of Euros 20 years ago. I was probably in that camp, being honest. I definitely did not want Carmelo, nor have I ever changed my mind about that despite Darko flaming out.
Anyone saying they were advocating for DWade at 2 is definitely lying tho!
I agree, though I do remember him going from a grouping that included Justin Fields, Trey Lance, and even Mac Jones (who was the lowest-rated if I remember) to being the clear #2 based heavily on his performance in those workouts. And to be fair, he looked great in those exercises and while there were warning signs that his last year at BYU wasn't representative of his actual ability I do think people assumed he'd be a starting QB.
he still might be
They used to make a big deal out of the Elite 11 back when Shane Morris took part in it. I think everyone knows it's a glorified 7 on 7 without the 7 defenders being present. Pretty pointless exercise. All it does is showcase the QBs with good mechanics, guys who can throw perfect spirals 10 out of 10 times. Air Noland has fantastic mechanics so he performed well. Jadyn Davis is more of a gamer, reminiscent of Bryce Young with a slightly worse arm, so he didn't look as good. We'll see who performs better when it matters.
Yeah, CJ "Ofer" Stroud had great mechanics. Right up until he got chased around by Michigan's defense. I will take a guy that is good under pressure over a guy that needs everything to be perfect around him.
I mean Stroud wasn't the reason OSU lost the last 2 games. Their defense was.
Stroud was absolutely dropping dimes on us for the most part. Just great passes and often times paired with incredible catches from his WRs, because the ball was in a place where only they could get it.
He averaged 67% completion percentage, 7.7 YPA, and 371 yards in the 2 games.
Really the only horrific decision and really bad "throw" he made was the Upshaw interception, and they were getting desperate at that point so it's somewhat understandable.
I hear this a lot and he certainly wasnt terrible. It is alternating possessions so the defense isnt the reason they scored 25 points less than their average. Much like JJ vs TCU and Cade vs MSU there are some good stats there but they didnt get the job done. CJ moved the ball effortlessly between the 30s but you dont get points for that. If you average 5tds and 0 picks a game your entire career and then average 2/1 versus your rival you are certainly part of the problem. If OSU's offense does what it does in every game these games vs U of M come down to the wire. They didnt and he was absolutely a huge part of that.
He wasn't the reason they lost but he played demonstrably worse in the second halves of those two games when OSU really needed him. Over those 4 quarters in 2021 and 2022 he went 34/50 (68%) with 1 TDs, 2 picks and 4 sacks. I think he may have also fumbled the ball once (but recovered it) and that hurt field position. I think he got bailed out by his receivers as much as he threw some great passes, and at this point the OSU offense makes QBs so efficient that I'd expect more from a top-3 pick in a huge game.
I will take a guy that is good under pressure over a guy that needs everything to be perfect around him.
Do you think his performance against Georgia's defense was a fluke? (23/34, 348 yds, 4 td, 0 int)
Michigan limiting Ohio State to 3 second-half point was the key to the 2022 game, so hats off to Michigan's great defense, but I think it's borderline nuts to say Stroud isn't good under pressure.
You guys shut down an excellent offense when it mattered. That says more about Michigan than Stroud's alleged "softness."
That performance was great but also felt as much Ryan Day gameplanning an amazing game off a month of prep than anything new from Stroud beyond him moving around more in the pocket and throwing off-platform more than he had in games past. He also looked mortal against ND to start the year, struggled mightily against NW in bad conditions. On the other hand he played really well against a good PSU defense. I don't think Stroud is soft or a bum, but you do have admit by this point that a bunch of recent OSU QBs look like gangbusters in college and then the minute they no longer enjoy a skill position advantage around them in the pros they look significantly worse. Haskins (RIP) and Fields were both drafted as passers first (or at least with Fields the expectation was he'd be a pass-first QB with great athleticism) and yet neither showed the same passing ability in the pros. And before the inevitable "Chicago doesn't have any good receivers" it should be noted that both Nathan Peterman and Trevor Siemian were able to have at least as much success throwing the ball to those players as Fields did all year.
Stroud may be successful in the pros but the OSU offense makes things really easy for QBs and so it is hard to grade just how good a lot of these guys are when things go awry.
It's literally the same thing as people freaking out about a QB's NFL Draft Pro Day. It means nothing because it's not the same as on field performance
I believe this is the Joe Milton effect. Practice All-American but not-so-much in a game.
Joe Milton needed more time that we didn't have. I think Joe starts this year for UT. And same for jadyn - give him time to work on his mechanics, clean up his release, etc.
he's gonna have a beefy offensive line. He's gonna have a couple of beastly running backs. He's not going to be asked to do a ton in the Harbaughfence. I think he's going to be in a great position to succeed here no matter what
Didn't Shane Morris show out in this thing back in the day?
Not meant to disparage him, just to show that predicting quarterback success by measurables doesn't always seem to work.
No. No he did not. Matter of fact, it raised the 2nd set of red flags. But people responded to it just as they are with Jadyn Davis. When our player does not ball out, its a worthless event. If a competitors player does not ball out, the event is amazing and proving OSU/ND's/MSU QB sucks.
When our player does not ball out, its a worthless event
I mean by and large it is a worthless event. The past ~5 years being Elite 11 MVP is a pretty good predictor of success, but besides that, it's a crap shoot. And Davis didn't "not ball out", he was a top performer in the only drill that involved throwing against an actual defense
Morris didn't do well at the event but he had also had an underwhelming year in HS as well (some of that was, I believe, due to mono). Davis had a good junior year, and again a lot of the complaints about him seem somewhat limited/unique to the confines of a made-for-TV event where a bunch of guys in shorts throw 2 dozen passes. Davis may well not pan out; he may also play like a multi-year starter with limited NFL upside due to his size. But the Elite 11 camp isn't a particularly accurate or useful tool in determining that.
I know coaches from the CHSL who didn't have great things to say about Morris. They thought he was overrated and wasn't deserving of a 5* status. Zero accuracy and sucked under pressure. Their game plan was to blitz the living hell out of Morris and he'll crumble which worked. It wasn't mono that accounted for his underwhelming year. He was simply overrated and it showed on college level.
I watched Shane vs Pioneer and was less than impressed. His accuracy wasn’t good.
I watched Tony Boles v Pioneer and was like, impressed.
If he won the Elite 11, I'd be hyping him up. If he was ranked in the back of the group, I'd be pointing out star QBs who were poorly ranked in the past. It's just how these things work.
If you're looking for positives, Davis was great when they played actual 7v7 football. He also seems very mature/smart in his interviews. I think I'd prefer that to the guys who excelled in drills/skills stuff but struggled in live action.
As Devin Gardner put it in his interview with Sam Webb a couple days ago, Jadyn would have performed better in an actual game compared to an event like this. He's got what it takes between the ears and he's got that DAWG in him. Elite 11 cannot replicate the atmosphere or pressure of a game.
It’s just all food for thought, right? I agree with you, I would rather have the qb that excelled in the 7on7 portion. Mechanics can be worked on, gamer mentality is that “it” factor.
Agree with this. Despite what people have posted, I gaurantee a win at Elite 11 would have been a totally different thread
its a data point. Simple as that.
Not getting over the top hyped if he won and not going to worry that he had a mixed performance.
that's what the games are for
His biggest knock is long wind-up, which is a mechanics issue that he's noted is actively working to address, I think earlier this off-season he was spotted with JJ out in California putting in work on this very thing. Either way totally over blown.
When there was actually some semblance of defense in the 7-on-7 portion he tore it up. That's not the be-all and end-all as I think CJ Stroud is a great 7-on-7 QB, but no leader of men.
The kid has a live enough throw to make all of the throws, is mobile enough to avoid pressure and pick up yards when they're there, can diagnose defenses extremely well, is humble and determined enough to put the work in to improve, and seems like he can be a great leader.
All-in-all has the makings of a championship QB, looking forward to seeing what he can do.
Not too worried. Caleb Williams was only 4th in his year (JJ was 7th behind Kyle, lol). Devin Brown was high.
Drake Maye, battling Caleb W for #1 in current 2024 NFL draft projections was tied for 13th.
Yes, these camps are good at narrowing down likely high level prospects, but none of the rankings matter beyond fan bragging rights.
Who is Kyron Drones? Carlos Del Rio? Ty Thompson hasn’t won’t a job.
That said, I hope Michigan lands 2025 #1 prospect and so on, because the best programs put talent against talent. JJ is better for having to outdo Cade and Cade was better for having to go against the complete opposite type of talent in Joe Cannon.
Jadyn has a hitch in his throws that can be coached out of his pocket throws.
Look at OSU—McCord was a 5 star and Devin Brown a 4 star. They are battling each other for the job, but neither is seen as a clear star. I’m not betting against McCord having a very good year, though, and then them having Air Noland come in and compete with Brown a year from now.
If JJ takes UM to the promised land and goes pro, I see a Jadyn Davis versus Davis Warren battle going into fall. Otherwise, JJ comes back for back to back National Championships and we get the Davis v. Underwood in 2025.
I can tell you how useless the elite 11 is. Trent Dilfer was/is involved with it and he is one of the dumbest people in sports.
That's actually a very good observation
Devin Gardner had comments on this, since he was the one organizing and coordinating this.
Bottom Line, Jaydn is good.
Id like to be a fly on the grass during that Elite 11. I get that the rivalry is at a fever pitch right now but…is Davis vs Nolan a thing or is this my head?