Hunting Corona Viruses in China
I know that people are probably getting sick of corona virus topics on the board, but I thought it would be nice to share this fascinating article on the search for the source of these viruses. This is an accessible piece on where this particular corona virus likely came from and also the efforts to catalogue as many of these viruses as possible.
March 16th, 2020 at 11:22 PM ^
From the article:
"On February 24 the nation announced a permanent ban on wildlife consumption and trade except for research or medicinal or display purposes—which will stamp out an industry worth $76 billion and put approximately 14 million people out of jobs."
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14 million people and $76 billion???? That $76 billion is 3% of China's annual GDP!
Not that I'm disputing the statistics, but that is rather remarkable. Now we know why there has been internal resistance toward curbing these practices.
But, yeah, that article is scary - there are dozens of other viruses hanging out amongst South China bats.
March 16th, 2020 at 11:27 PM ^
Kill all the bats. I’m sure there is probably some argument that it will mess up the ecosystem, but it’s worth it. fuck those bats.
March 16th, 2020 at 11:34 PM ^
Bats eat tons of mosquitoes - they are good in terms of insect control.
For whatever reason, bats are highly tolerant of a bunch of viruses. Literally the "top mammal" in that regard.
This will be the 3rd time just this decade we've had a major CoronaVirus sourced from bats to humans. SARS, MERS and now this. If we could just trust humans to "let bats be", we'd likely be fine, but some folks want to eat them. Thus we are where we are.
March 16th, 2020 at 11:57 PM ^
Gotta give the people something else or the behaviors won't stop.
... the dynamics at play here are similar to folks in Africa eating primates (sorry RGard) and then ebola breaks out.
I meant to reply to you in the covid thread the other day when you had a non-snark question.
I was drawing the mortality rate and RO numbers from the total world count, not from US specifically, which, as you noted, is likely to be more underreported than other countries.
My point about hoping weather might help was more of a hope than reality--coronaviruses behave differently than the flu to warm weather. Vitamin D has been shown to be an antiviral so there is hope that more sunlight for the northern hemisphere will help in that respect
March 17th, 2020 at 11:22 AM ^
I think some of what we call now social distancing is why flu goes down in the summer... people are not as cooped up anymore, etc.
But I think with what is being reporting on the news, COVID-19 can last longer in the environment than some strains of the flu... that's the perspective I was coming/commenting from.
A few weeks ago, there was a lot of misinformation in the news... and as someone who lived in Japan through SARS and was accustomed to waking through body scanners at Haneda and Narita and all living with all the other protocols, I admittedly thought this COVID stuff was overblown.
A month later, I don't think that way anymore. This stuff is no joke. The information has gotten better and I'm definitely self-isolating at home and working remotely for the time being.
March 17th, 2020 at 12:10 AM ^
I thought MERS had something to do with Camels? Or were bats the intermediary between Camels and Humans?
March 17th, 2020 at 11:24 AM ^
I thought MERS was just camels, err, the virus in the camels... reports were people got it from the meat and drinking urine.
Sounds like camels were the intermediary between bats and humans. And sounds like that's common, which is why banning the consumption of bats will only do so much. As we encroach upon their habitats and put domesticated animals near them, we can still get the viruses without coming into direct contact with the bats.
March 16th, 2020 at 11:45 PM ^
Watch how the politicians and media act. It's 100% not caused by bats. This event has been planned a long time. Your freedoms are being actively shredded as we speak. This is no accident.
March 17th, 2020 at 12:05 AM ^
That's fine, as long is football isn't postponed.
Better to be snarky and sarcastic than try thinking for yourself right?
Has anyone else noticed in the last 3 years since Trump got in office that the conspiracy theory label has been thrown around almost constantly?
Seems like a lot of conspiracy theories going around.
Boomers and the extreme academics will struggle the worst once the truth starts to come out.
I mean how many celebrities, politicians and business people did Harvey's Weinstein and jeffrey Epstein know again? You think none of those people they were connected with didnt know what was going on?
And then the way jeffrey Epstein died....... really? Still nothing suspicious going on?
It's true, I've got the documents right here
thank you - we all know that these viruses were created on the same soundstage that the "moon landings" were filmed, passed through leftist political cells funded by George Soros, and sprayed upon the populace through chemtrails strictly in election years.
Too much cognitive dissonance on this board.
Qanon should open peoples eyes but no one wants to invest any time in doing real research.
March 16th, 2020 at 11:53 PM ^
Fuck that. Kill anyone dumb enough to eat them instead.
March 16th, 2020 at 11:55 PM ^
First of all, humans likely didn't catch it directly from bats. The article points this out:
Although humans could have caught the deadly virus from bats directly (according to several studies, including those by Shi and her colleagues), independent teams have suggested in preprint studies that pangolins may have been an intermediate host.
Everything I've read before this says the most likely animal is the poor little Pangolin, who Chinese gobble up or use for medicinal purposes (which makes them exempt from the ban on wildlife trade). They are on their way to extinction, but maybe now they'll have a chance.
The pangolin is said to be the most widely trafficked mammal in the world, and its scales are in high demand in Asia for use in traditional Chinese medicine. The scales are made of keratin, the same material in human fingernails. Their meat is also considered a delicacy in China and other Asian countries. LINK
We need more bats in the world, not fewer. The biggest infectious disease killer in the world is malaria (~ 400,000 deaths/year). The vector for malarial bacteria is the mosquito. Bats are a vacuum cleaner for mosquitoes. They're a big reason Austin, TX is so liveable-- it's about the only place in Texas you can walk outside in the evening or at night and not get chewed to pieces by mosquitoes.
The problem is that people are eating animals they shouldn't be and using animals for medicinal purposes that have no scientific basis.
March 17th, 2020 at 12:30 AM ^
China GDP is like 12 trillion. $76 billion is less than 1% of that. Still it's an incredible figure.
Perhaps it's 76 billion yuan, which would be like US $1.1 billion. I'm not sure that's enough money to sustain 14 million people though. Maybe US $7.6 billion?
Had a look, and US $76 billion is the GDP of entire nations like Guatemala, Kenya, Dominican Republic, with populations of 70 million, 50 million and 10 million.
Also, the GDP per capita for China is in the $8000s, which would yield like US $120 billion for 14 million people. So... maybe??
Meh, they stopped the market after SARS. But it came back within a few years. I fully expect the same pattern to happen again. When there is money to be made, people will find a way.
"without efforts to change people’s traditional beliefs or provide alternative livelihoods, a blanket ban may push the business underground. This could make disease detection even more challenging."
This would be BS if it goes "underground". The government can look into every nook and cranny of your life in China. If they want to shut off that business, they absolutely can.
Those markets came back, but the authorities absolutely know those markets exist. They weren't a secret. Vox had a video about those markets, and one thing on their side is they have a lot of rich backers. Pangolins are expensive as hell since they're highly endangered, hard to find, and poaching them is quite illegal. Those markets don't exist because some peasants want them to.
I'm not for calling it the Wuhan or China virus because I get how most people promoting that are doing so for racist means, but fuck the Chinese government. Seriously. It's already the 2nd most powerful country in the world now and they are doing so much wrong. This, Xinjiang, Hong Kong, pollution, undermining democracy around the world, absurd territorial claims, etc.
Here in America, we often take for granted agencies like the FDA. However, should one travel to China of the Middle East, you'll see environments that food is prepared and consumed, that only in your worst dreams would you create. A large majority of the plagues in recent history have originated in China, and the global impact is now too big to ignore.
March 16th, 2020 at 11:35 PM ^
You cannot just kill the bats. That is not a solution and was exactly the response I was afraid this article would immediately generate. Are you going to also kill all the bats in other parts of the world that are reservoirs for viruses? What about other animals that are reservoirs for viruses? What about the useful ecological functions these animals serve such as pollination and reduction in insects. Oh great we killed all the bats but now we have infectious diseases spread by insects running rampant.
March 16th, 2020 at 11:48 PM ^
We've destroyed millions of chickens and turkeys over the years because of H5N1 and H5N2 concerns.
Bats are also the natural reservoir for the Ebola virus. Heaven forbid that ever became transmissible via airborne droplet. That is a true Captain Tripps scenario.
We need much better education - DO NOT EAT BATS. Otherwise, this will happen once again.
March 17th, 2020 at 12:13 AM ^
So what you're saying, is that there's a huge, untapped market for Impossible Bats?
March 17th, 2020 at 12:42 AM ^
Yeah, kill all the bats in the world. WT fuckin ell? The viruses will mutate and find some other vector animal that will eventually find its way to humans. The answer is human smarts and technology and finding a way to combat the fucking viruses themselves. Leave the natural world alone!
He constantly says crushingly stupid things.
Pretty amazing woman. We should have some scientists working with her.
probably getting sick of corona virus topics
Phrasing, OP.
March 17th, 2020 at 10:08 AM ^
If this isn't a wake up call to distance ourselves form China, i don't know what is. Make more shit here, fewer imports and dependency from these bat eating fucks.