Has OSU EVER had to really rebuild?
I am trying to recall the history of Ohio State, and I cannot say ever remembering a time where they had to make a serious rebuild of their program. They never really have faced a serious adversity in the sense of a down program, have they?
Heck, even Alabama had to do that after the Paul Dooley years.
November 29th, 2021 at 5:06 AM ^
They should rebuild the whole fucking state
November 29th, 2021 at 6:12 AM ^
Better yet, demolish it and turn it into a parking lot.
November 29th, 2021 at 7:40 AM ^
The Pretenders had the right idea.
November 29th, 2021 at 7:41 AM ^
Careful now, all the water will run downhill out of Lake Erie.
November 29th, 2021 at 8:39 AM ^
Water flows north to south. Everyone knows that.
November 29th, 2021 at 7:21 AM ^
It is the wasteland between Pittsburgh and Ann Arbor.
November 29th, 2021 at 5:35 AM ^
How about 1902? Michigan 86 - Ohio State 0.
November 29th, 2021 at 5:53 AM ^
Post John Cooper.
November 29th, 2021 at 6:23 AM ^
Not after him, but after Earle Bruce. Bruce didn't recruit well and Cooper went 4-6-1 in his first year, and didn't have a championship-level team for a few more years after that.
After Cooper they won the national title in Tressel's second season.
November 29th, 2021 at 7:56 AM ^
Earl Bruce had to go because all the OSU fans called him "Good Old 8 and 3 Earl". At least he was consistent.
November 29th, 2021 at 6:31 AM ^
Before my time, but probably end of the Cooper years 6-6, 8-5, and 7-5 before Tressel came in but they've really never had to rebuild anything like what Harbaugh had to do coming off two coaches with multiple losing seasons each
November 29th, 2021 at 6:56 AM ^
Brady Hoke only had one losing season (his last) -- and even that was only 5-7. Hoke was probably in over his head, and it was time to move on, but -- despite his flaws -- he left the program in reasonable shape, left behind a lot of talented players, and did a good job at restoring some of the culture that Rich Rod and his colleagues had destroyed. His major problem, as I saw it, was a failure to effectively motivate his team. They played listlessly and without much inspiration -- and each year the wheels fell off a little more. But he didn't destroy the program.
As for OSU ... I actually thought they were going to crater -- or at least experience a few somewhat down years -- after Tressel left. Everything I heard said the other shoe was going to drop, major infractions were going to be revealed, and the NCAA was going to come down on them hard. Then, for some reason (sorry -- I'm no conspiracy theorist, so I'm not really suggesting anything nefarious) ... that never happened. Don't know if the NCAA decided there was lots of smoke but no fire, or ... what. But for whatever reason ... the expected boom wasn't lowered.
Next thing you know, Urban Meyer comes in, and they're off to the races again.
Let's be honest though. Self-pity (and 2008) aside, Michigan has spent remarkably few years in the desert itself. Ask once-proud Big Ten programs like Michigan State after Duffy Daugherty, Minnesota, etc. etc., how much sympathy they have for Michigan. Ask USC, Florida State, and Texas how much sympathy they have for us.
As always ... it's pretty good to be a Michigan Wolverine. :-)
November 29th, 2021 at 7:37 AM ^
Nice post. There have been ups and downs in the past. We may be coming out of the 3rd dip.
After Fielding Yost the team was down near 0.55 until Fritz Crisler took over in 1938. Bennie Oosterbaan, ex-star QB took over in 1948 and had the great 1949 team with Tom Harmon. Then things dipped a second time. Under Bump Elliott, the team was around 0.500 from 1950-1968.
Then as we all know Bo Schembechler took the helm and the team had a 0.855 record. Coincidentally college football had its second big surge, a wave that only got bigger after restrictions on televised games, the internet, social media and all-year all-the-time coverage. Gary Moeller and Lloyd Carr kept the team around 0.77 through the end of 2007.
Then we know what happened from 2008-2014. By the way, Harbaugh has a 0.71 record which is nearing what Moeller and Carr had in arguably a much more competitive environment.
Today: the money is massive (Don Canham was hailed as a marketing genius when he could get $100,000 per year in merchandise endorsements in the 1970s), the coverage is 24-7, the coverage is intense, there is the internet, and every game can be seen somewhere somehow.
The next big wrinkle is the new portal system - we'll see a lot of the skilled position players move around looking for playing team.
Your observation about motivation is a good one. That seemed to be the one knock against Harbaugh until this season. He knows the X's and O's and he runs a good system, but didn't seem to have that ability to raise the enthusiasm of the team. Other coaches such as PJ Fleck and James Franklin, honestly, seem to have that skill as their main coaching attribute. But this team really got behind the effort. Maybe the new assistants helped. Maybe the seniors played a big part.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Michigan_Wolverines_head_football_coaches
November 29th, 2021 at 9:19 AM ^
Bennie Oosterbaan, ex-star QB took over in 1948 and had the great 1949 team with Tom Harmon.
Harmon's last season was 1940. His entire playing career was under Crisler as head coach.
Oosterbaan's 1949 team was 6-2-1. It tied for first in the conference, but it hardly qualifies as "great."
Under Bump Elliott, the team was around 0.500 from 1950-1968.
Bump Elliott was HC from 1959 to 1968—he didn't even join Oosterbaan's staff until 1957.
November 29th, 2021 at 8:06 AM ^
The sense of perspective is vital. People here have been on suicide watch as Harbaugh won an average of ten games. OSU was the boil that needed lancing, and--TBH--some of their advantages aren't going away. The key for Harbaugh and co. is to do it right, with prestige, honor, and our great school behind them. I've been okay with the trade-off, and I'm 65. My grandfather, mother, father, and two brothers all went to the UM, like me, and when we get together we all tend to agree. Complain, but agree!
November 29th, 2021 at 7:07 AM ^
OSU’s little down period from 1999-2001 wasn’t really a rebuilding period; they had plenty of talent. They just had terrible QB play. Steve Bellisari played like Scott Frost was his QB coach, regularly gifting turnovers to the other team.
November 29th, 2021 at 6:59 AM ^
Since when did we turn into 11W, pleeeez, let's enjoy the win and focus our attention on Iowa, as Jim and the coaching staff need our collective insight and schematic analysis as we MUST win that game.
November 29th, 2021 at 7:02 AM ^
They have never had to rebuild...
November 29th, 2021 at 8:08 AM ^
OMG it's one game.Are our fans really this out of touch? OSU doesn't need to rebuild. This is the first big ten game they've lost since Day took over and you're talking about a rebuild? talk about an over reaction to one game.
November 29th, 2021 at 8:26 AM ^
I didn't take any comments here to mean that they thought OSU had to rebuild. I believe that there point is that there is panic in the OSU fanbase, and OSU fans think they need to rebuild because they will miss the playoffs this year without total chaos.
November 29th, 2021 at 8:39 AM ^
I live in Ohio (yes, yes, I know) and most OSU acquaintances were calling for Ewers to replace Stroud. Are you god damn kidding me? He was a Heisman frontrunner heading into The Game and then threw for 394 yards despite being under pressure for a good portion of the day. One even said "Strouds grow on trees" to justify the switch. I'm happy for them to make the leap in the offseason if that's truly how they feel.
November 29th, 2021 at 10:25 AM ^
I thought Stroud was pretty damn good for being a RS FR. He was playing in his environment in the snow being a CA kid.
I was actually really impressed by him, got the ball out in time, didn't force anything.his receivers weren't getting the space they normally create
November 29th, 2021 at 12:44 PM ^
If Ohio State starts jerking around Stroud's playing time, there is a new coach in Stroud's hometown who has a track record of developing Heisman QBs...
November 29th, 2021 at 1:51 PM ^
Crazy to think Stroud starting for 3 years might be their worst long term situation. They’d probably just get a bama transfer to fill the depth chart issues, but still
November 29th, 2021 at 9:02 AM ^
Act like you've been there before, right? Even though we kinda haven't in quite some time. ha ha. And to his defense, I don't think he's saying they NEED a rebuild. At least I hope not. Just asking the question if they've ever had to. But either way, still an odd topic.
November 29th, 2021 at 8:30 AM ^
Kinda after Earle Bruce, that's about it.
1988: 4-6-1
1989: 8-4
1990: 7-4-1
1991: 8-4
1992: 8-3-1
Really it's amazing he lasted that long with no wins against Michigan. If they hadnt tied us in 1992 he may have gotten fired. Then in 1993 he comes into The Game at 9-0-1 loses 28-0 and says "This is one of the most embarrassing games I've ever been involved with." "They outplayed us on offense, on defense, and in the kicking game. If you'd told me we would come up here and get beat 28–0, I'd have probably stayed home". ?
He had finally lost control of the program after his 1998 team that should have won it all, but left a boatload of talent for their 2002 and 2003 teams.
November 29th, 2021 at 8:44 AM ^
I would say 2012 was a rebuild. The 2014 championship team was built around the 2013 recruiting class, so Meyer had to build it himself...it wasn't because he was already on third base.
There was a dip from 1999-2001, but like was stated above it wasn't because the whole program was down. They got sketchy quarterback play.
1987-1988 (Bruce's last year + Cooper's first) was a combined 10-10-2 with neither team going to a bowl game. Cooper had to build the program to be able to compete for conference championships from '93-'98.
Until 2008 happened, trying to fit round pegs in a square hole, it had been 40 years since the last time Michigan ever had any down years. Michigan's worst team spanning 4 decades (6-5 in 1984) still went to a bowl. I grew up when Michigan never missed a bowl game and OSU missed a bowl game 3 times.
November 29th, 2021 at 9:08 AM ^
Not trying to be a dick here, you're one of the better Buckeyes on here. But give me a break! A 12-0 season is not a rebuild year.
Meyer took a team with a damn solid foundation and then took them even higher than Tressel ever could. But to say 2012 was a rebuild year is ridiculous. Especially to this fanbase.
November 29th, 2021 at 9:21 AM ^
Do you mean 2011?
November 29th, 2021 at 9:23 AM ^
12-0 is a “rebuild.”
edit: did you mean 2011?
November 29th, 2021 at 9:40 AM ^
I meant that 2012 was the beginning of a rebuilt team that followed the 6-7 season in 2011.
November 29th, 2021 at 10:44 AM ^
2011 was not a rebuild. That was just OSU suffering from the consequences of their own doing. In 2012, Meyer took over the most talented team in the conference. I wouldn't say he was born on third because we already knew he was a great coach at that point. But he didn't take over a rebuild.
November 29th, 2021 at 8:59 AM ^
OSU's most recent multi-year "down" period was at the end of the Cooper years and beginning of the Tressel years. They went 6-6 and 8-4 in Cooper's last two years, then 7-5 in Tressel's first year.
Before that, OSU went 33-22-3 over a five-year stretch from 1988-92, which encompassed the last year of Earle Bruce's tenure and the first four years of Cooper's tenure.
But they haven't had back-to-back losing years since the 1920s, so it depends what you mean by a "down program."
November 29th, 2021 at 9:04 AM ^
Who in hell is Paul Dooley?
November 29th, 2021 at 9:14 AM ^
Hardly- And they shouldn't now. Just keep trying to do what they are doing. Now that we have figured them out and that monkey is off our backs, the mystique is gone, recruiting will now even out. Let them feel adversity and frustration for a while.
November 29th, 2021 at 9:53 AM ^
Probably around 87-89, that was a legit rebuild. Probably 2001 as well. Not buying 2012 after the transition meh team, too much talent.
November 29th, 2021 at 10:42 AM ^
They're the most spoiled fanbase in the country for any sport. Have to go back to the 30s for a coach that didn't win a conference title (not counting interim Luke Fickell). Even Cooper had some great teams and big wins despite struggling against Michigan. They've won all but four games against their biggest rival since the turn of the century and a couple national titles. And since the turn of the century, they've gone to a NY6 bowl 17 times (18 if you include this year). They went from Jim Tressel to one of 2-3 coaches that could be considered an upgrade from him.
They don't even know what losing is like. They've only lost more than two games in a year four times this century.
I hope they get the taste of some extended failure soon. They're due.