I didn't see this posted yet...Thoughts?
I didn't see this posted yet...Thoughts?
than speculation. Apparently Birkett is still unaware that Dorsey's semester is NOT OVER YET.
His semester is over...Boyd Anderson seniors have already walked.
Dorsey did in fact walk, right? And he taped M NFZ on the top of his cap, right?
These are the questions we need to ask, people...
Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck. Fuck.
Oh boy. God really does hate Michigan.
...it could be a test of faith.
if he qualifies and goes to Florida State that would be a serious kick in the nuts... We can probably thank Mark Snyder for this one
Sam Webb did not say that Dorsey would not play for U of M, as the article claims he did. He said that he is not optimistic that Dorsey will make it. He guessed that FSU would be another possibility for Dorsey...This article takes Sam's hypothesizing and treats it as fact.
From those interested in hearing exactly what Sam Webb said this morning about Dorsey, here are links to the relevant podcasts:
http://www.wtka.com/index.php?fuseaction=home.podcasts_sel&id=5596 (Dorsey talk starts around 3:10)
http://www.wtka.com/index.php?fuseaction=home.podcasts_sel&id=5597 (continuation of Dorsey talk)
You're telling me that Birkett took someone's words and twisted them around to create the illusion of factual knowledge on a subject? Impossible. What reason do we have to doubt him?
I don't know why this is bad news. If he's qualified to attend FSU, doesn't that make it more likely that he can come to UM? If they said JUCO was the only other option, then we're probably out. But he signed an LOI to us, and if he passes the NCAA Clearinghouse, the ball is in our court. This doesn't sound like bad news to me.
My interpretation is that he's eligible to play for us but we aren't taking him. I must be reading this wrong...
Sam Webb has said a couple of times now that it might be possible for Dorsey not to be admitted to Michigan for non-academic reasons, which confuses me if those reasons are the sames things that we all heard about when he first signed...Good point about the LOI. Michigan would have to release him before he could go to FSU, correct?
I think the LOI becomes binding when the athlete is admitted to the school. So, as of now, Dorsey can go anywhere he wants and won't have to sit.
The reason it could be bad news is that if he attends an FBS school, that means he's qualified by the Clearinghouse . . . but that Michigan's admissions department denied him entry to U of M. That means that Michigan might have wasted time - and a scholarship reservation - for a kid that wouldn't ever play for Michigan.
I said this in a thread last week, but if we're going to recruit kids, then we should admit them. The decision to allow him into the school should come BEFORE the letter of intent, not after. Otherwise, Rodriguez is wasting his time and/or admissions is making Rodriguez play with one hand tied behind his back.
After Witty and now this, you make some good points. It seems like a ton of wasted effort and other things if even when they do qualify, UM says no.
The difference between Witty and Dorsey though is that Witty was recruited basically to get Denard to Michigan, which has turned out pretty well for us so far. So I wouldn't say recruiting him was a wasted effort
The coaches really liked Witty, actually. He just couldn't get it done to get admitted. It's kind of insulting to say he was only recruited because of Denard, because Witty's actually a good football player.
Now you might be able to say that about J.D. Pride, a good friend of Seantrel Henderson's . . .
you're right, I worded it incorrectly. If i remember correctly they were considered to be a package deal though, and as much as they liked Witty (and I liked him too), we still benefited even though he didn't make it in. apologies
He actually DID get it done but his test scores were flagged by UM admissions due to the jump in qualifying score and it was deemed he was "too much of a risk" to admit. This was the first hard example of a certain "tightening" of academic standards that didn't exist in the Lloyd Carr era (Slocum anybody?).
So, somewhat similar to what has happened to Dorsey - UM coaches/AD convince admissions to allow them to offer a scholarship to a kid and allow the kid to sign a LOI, admissions set the criteria that need to be met (along with the Clearinghouse, obviously), kid meets the criteria and is qualified (according to Birkett), Michigan Admissions doesn't even wait for the process to finish before saying "you did what we asked you to do, but we changed our minds and no thanks".
What makes this one more troubling is all the nightmare PR Michigan and RRod had to go through and admissions still flips the script on a kid, despite fully knowing his background history when they agreed to allow him to sign a LOI and having the kid meet his obligations. If he is qualified and goes to FSU, why would a Florida kid ever want to attempt to get into Michigan again?
he would want a superior education? Does that even enter into this equation?
This has got to look bad to the future recruits. Add to it the fact that it has happened not once, but twice, and I think future recruits will see this as a BIG negative when being recruited by UM.
I am going to speak in generalities for a moment. Most (and I stress most) student athletes are not great academics. Most of the top tier athletes see their sports as their future and put most of their time and energy into that opposed to their studies. For this reason (and some others I'm sure) many of them scrape by through HS and only go to University so they can get into the professional ranks.
So you look at these top tier athletes, the ones everyone wants, and most (MOST) are of the variety that are scraping by in HS. They are sure to be qualified when it comes to the end of the year, but it will be close for many.
Why on earth would these guys even look twice at UM given the very recent history? I was one of these athletes in HS (though Hockey, not football). In Canada grades are essentially irrelevant because we play in the CHL and not university. However, my point is I was putting my money on becoming a pro athlete and therefore, let my studies go.
If I were in any of their positions (these top rated athletes with borderline grades) I wouldn't give UM the time of day regardless if they were my favorite school growing up or not. If these kids are qualified I can't see how UM admissions denying them admission is a good thing. I just can't fathom what they are thinking.
Again, I think this is going to cause many of these top rated recruits to look elsewhere in the future. I know I would in their circumstance.
It seems downright bizarre to me to look at a kid's background, say he's okay to come if his grades are good enough, and then later say that his background makes him something less than Michigan material...I'm not saying, I should be clear, that this is what is happening, but that it seems like a possibility at all is strange.
....but it seems like you're implying that Rich Rod and the football program have something do with whether or not a player is admitted to the university. That is untrue. The admissions dept. has the final say on whether or not someone can be admitted to the university, and it is completely separate from anything having to do with the football program. There is a fairly interesting take on it here:
I've seen that article too. However, don't the coaches and admissions office communicate ahead of time as to who will be able to make it in?
I believe this is true...especially in cases where character issues or background history are involved (not saying I think Dorsey has character issues at all, FYI).
Admissions is 100 percent subjective once the minimum qualifications are met.
How could an admittance decision come without the kid's final transcripts? Or do you mean you would like to see the signing period moved to the summer?
These reports were surfacing prior to Dorsey's graduation, so they obviously weren't entirely based on his final transcripts. Whatever's allegedly preventing him from getting into U of M must have something to do with test scores, personal conduct, or something else.
...but I was admitted to UofM prior to my final transcript being available. Shoot, I don't think any of my senior year grades were available when I received my acceptance letter. It happened a decade ago, but if memory serves me correctly, I received my acceptance in November of my senior year.
But you weren't in a race to meet NCAA minimum requirements, I assume. Dorsey needs to get a bare minimum GPA, one that we all know he was apparently in danger of not attaining, pending his final semester grades.
But I was responding to an assertion that final transcripts are required for admissions decisions.
I stand corrected. Completely forgot about the giant caveat in every acceptance letter.
I do remember that being in the acceptance letter, but I am sure it would take an absolute implosion to ever be excersized. I have never heard of anyone having their status revoked because of tehir final semester grades. I think wait lists are designed more for students who get accepted and then choose a different University (that never happens to UofM, of course).
Depends on what you mean by absolute implosion. Lots of stuff can happen between November/December and June. Some kids get tremendous bouts of senioritis and their last semester grades drop like rocks. There are other situations as well, but it is extremely, extremely rare.
Most colleges admit colleges without their final transcripts...I was admitted to UofM in Dec of 2003, but I wasn't graduating HS until the next spring.
edit: sorry above poster said same thing, and I get your point chitown
Are you by chance a college?
Clearly any situation that doesn't have him playing for M this fall is bad news, but I meant that this isn't bad news in comparison to the previous thought that he wouldn't be eligible by the NCAA. I would much rather for M to have the choice than not.
I think a lot of kids don't have their grades wrapped up by LOI time, so that's probably not a good protocol you're suggesting.
It's a good protocol if your admissions standards for athletes significantly exceed the standards for the NCAA as a whole.
But by that standard, we wouldn't have Justin Turner, Jeremy Gallon and who knows who else on our team because they weren't qualified yet in Feb. And you'd still spend the year leading up to February recruiting players only to not send them an LOI come February. It would be tough to maintain.
If this is true...
It means that Michigan's admissions is making their decision without his final semester grades, as his school is still in session. If that's the case, everything they know about him now, they knew about him back on signing day - in other words, they SHOULD have known on signing day that they wouldn't take him because, apparently, there isn't anything he can do this semester to change their minds, or they'd be waiting for his grades. If that's the case, they should have just said that.
Maybe I missed it, but was it posted somewhere that grades are absolutely what is holding him back? Couldn't his test scores be the issue?
I have no idea if U-M's admissions standards work like the NCAA Clearinghouse standards (except for being higher somehow), but the NCAA uses a "sliding scale" whereby you need a certain combination of GPA and scores. For (a pulled-out-of-my-ass) example, maybe a 2.0 and 14 ACT aren't good enough, but a 2.0 + 18 ACT or 3.0 + 14 ACT are.
Boyd Anderson commencement was yesterday. It would be nice to know if DD made his way across the stage. A smiling picture posted up or something. Where is Raback when you need him?
1) this isn't grades related (that will be verified soon, but Birkett's statement backs up premium sites' statements) but is instead "something else".
2) there are only two programs in the country that hold their athletes to a higher standard than the NCAA clearinghouse standards and Michigan is not one of them: Stanford and I believe NW.
So it looks like a major decision needs to be made - do we want to win games and be a football powerhouse again which requires at least some risk, or do we want to publically take a holier than thou approach while privately keeping the same admissions standards that all but 2 D1 programs do and as a result field decent but not great teams?
I love it when Scout guys show up and play "Insider". Birkett is merely parroting Sam Webb, this isn't corroboration, it's repetition.
I've loved watching you hate on Scout for a bit now. Say what you want, but there hasn't been a single site that has been more accurate than GBW on many occasions and a single person who has been more accurate than Sam Webb. If you don't think so, just name where I'm wrong. Sorry you can't afford the $9.99 a month
"hate, hate, hate, hate, hate"