Dave Birkett "Dorsey is qualified w/grades. Florida State possible."
I didn't see this posted yet...Thoughts?
http://collegefootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/06/07/five-star-recruit-d…
this whole fiasco only supports the concept that we maintain a certain level of integrity in Ann Arbor, and after all the hoopla on Rich's back, that can only be a good thing. I'm all for staying in the lines, even if it costs us a quality player.
If this is true...
I don't have an issue with Michigan rejecting him. You don't need to convince me that a sub-20 ACT kid with a 2.0 GPA doesn't neccesarily deserve to be at Michigan. My main issue is that, if this true, Michigan had all the data they'd use to admit or deny him BEFORE his LOI was signed. Why couldn't they just reject him then?
assuming that he's mathematically out of achieving > 2.0 GPA or > 20 ACT, as of February 1 (even though the GPA is from the prior marking period, which is prior to Feb), when he still has 5 months of school left and another 1 or 2 chances at improving his ACT score (or getting back the results).
Now, if you are advocating that Michigan only recruit kids who as of Feb 1, that are not borderline at all, then your reject him then statement is correct (I completely disagree with this statement, but that's not the point here).
I don't think they should judge it THEN.
What I'm saying is that if Dorsey HAS been denied admissions, they would have known that in February, as his grades for his final semester are not yet in the books, and no new information has popped up since signing his LOI. IF there was NOTHING he could do in order to be admitted, they should have said that then.
However, if it's a case like Turner or Gallon last year, the school should be able to say "if you accomplish X, Y, Z, you will be admitted."
I think we are on the same page then. I don't believe that any new information has poped up since signing his LOI, but we will find out when his school year ends.
Also, I don't think many kids (I'm speaking generically here, not about DD) are mathematically unable to gain admission to UM, while being cleared by the clearinghouse. This is because at that time (Feb) kids 1) still have an opportunity to
1) improve ACT scores (and may not have even received a score from ~6 weeks prior)
2) have ~5 months to improve their grades; and
3) can enroll in summer school to replace grades or do extra credit activities.
EDIT:
Not to be creepy, but as of February 3 (national LOI day, I think), DD would only have 1 report card for the 2009-2010 school year.
Also, it appears that the final report card is issued on 6/25 and the last day of school is 6/9, so likely no new information has come forth recently, but will soon.
I'll let chitown speak for himself, but my opinion is a kid should know that he will be admitted if he meets Michigan's admittance standards, whatever they might be, before he signs and LOI.
Also, the coaches should know what the standards are so they can gauge a kid's ability to meet them before they devote limited resources (recruiting hours, contact time, etc) to recruiting him over another kid.
What sucks is how much criticism and negativity has been and is being heaped on the football program and immediate football staff for adjacent and/or lateral departments. If that kid in your math class is suddenly pulled from enrollment because he forged his transcripts, obviously no one's going to blame your instructor for the error.
Now, if that kid in your position group is suddenly pulled from practice because he is not academically qualified, Rich's face is posted all over the Interwebs. And who's to blame? Some secretary or clerical worker who the program has no control over. AAAAAAAARGHHHHH... personally, that's the stuff that drives me crazy, when the actions of other departments are used to criticize myself and my own group. I have no problem being held accountable for the actions of my own staff, because they answer to me and ideally I should have some control over it in the first place. But you can't expect Rich to be able to control any of this stuff, and imagine the on-field product if he was.
I'm cool with having a higher admittance standard than the NCAA minimum, but can't we have that sorted out before hand? If a kid signs an LOI and he qualifies, he should be rubber stamped. Anything else is another indication that Michigan as a whole doesn't have it's shit together when it comes to having an elite football program.
Carr had guys playing who weren't academically elligible, the CARA/Job Description Fiasco, Witty, and now Dorsey (allegedly). I expect better out of Michigan.
I agree. If it is a situation where Dorsey has the grades for Clearinghouse and for FSU, but, doesn't have the grades to pass the standards at UM; then I wish him luck at FSU and we all move on without complaining.
I don't want our academic standards changed one bit... it's a point of pride for "football" schools like N'w, Stanford, ND, and UM to win without degrading the over-all academic reputation of the University
However, that doesn't negate the possiblity (and problems related) that RR's staff is recruiting kids that are on the edge of eligibility (Witty, Kinard, D. Dorsey) that waste resourses, schollarship availability (even if "only" for a short period of time) which leads to dashing my high hopes and dreams of a 4-star starting CB opposite Woolfolk on 9-4-10.
I don't want our academic standards changed one bit... it's a point of pride for "football" schools like N'w, Stanford, ND, and UM to win without degrading the over-all academic reputation of the University
You haven't been paying attention to admissions the past decade, have you? This situation re: academic eligibility at Michigan isn't a phenomena unique to Rich Rod. Even the conspiracy theorists at the recruiting boards admit as such.
questionable kids like Eugene Germany, Marques Slocum and other players in in the past. Michigan's standards are the same as everybody else as long as they meet the minimum NCAA qualifying standards.
Lloyd's JUCO Austin Panter.
He went to JUCO because he hadn't played 11 on 11 football in highschool.
Painter was a QB
which is a less of a problem than with JUCO recruit who has 2.5 GPA. It's the matter of transferring credits from JUCO to Michigan which clearly in Austin's case, it's not.
"Michigan's standards are the same as everybody else ...
Oregon St., Kansas State, and numerous non-BCS schools have rosters with a slew of J.C. transfers --- and UM has had exactly 2 in the last 15 years.
I'm pretty sure that suggests that you are wrong
HS recruit, not JUCO recruit which is completely different because of transfer of credits. As for HS recruit, it's either you're eligible by NCAA or you're not.
If I'm talking about JUCO, which I'm not, then it's completely a different situation. Dorsey is not a JUCO recruit and he's a regular HS student.
if you are talking academic integrity I guess you could be right, but integrity? How does signing an 18 year old to a LOI, having him meet all the criteria to attend your insitution and then slamming the door in his face showing integrity? You will have to explain that to me.
The "academic integrity" that so many keep babbling about here and "integrity" are very different, especially in this instance. Here you are trying to maintain this "academic integrity" by sacrificing the institutions integrity IMHE.
Edit: this was to six zeros post about academic integrity way back there somewhere....
It may be all true, but...
"Webb also hinted that Dorsey could be moving on to another school, which would be a double kick in the groin for Rodriguez."
Who TF is John Taylor? That post is Bleacher Report material.
That article links to a previous post by John Taylor about Dorsey possibly not making it in. At the end, he mentions Dorsey's arrests, then says, "Yep, sounds like a quintessential Rodriguez recruit to me."
Demar Dorsey.
He signed a LOI to attend Michigan. That means that he wanted to go there. If he didn't quite make it for whatever reason, he's probably gonna be pretty upset. Think about it. He might have to relegate himself to Florida State. I'm guessing he would feel worse about it than any of us.
If he ends up at Florida State I'm going to be pissed. We worked hard to get his commitment and now he could be going to another school??? This just sucks.
Not that I trust anything coming out of Birkett's tweethole, but is it possible that the LOI was tendered with the knowledge that Demar's qualifying was going to be a tight thing and that final grades would have to be at a certain level if he could actually come onto campus? And that even though final grades have not been issued, that school officials/teachers are very well aware of how DD has been doing in his final classes (not well, according to the scenario) and that info has leaked out?
Regardless, it really seems his recruitment has been cursed from the beginning.
I have no problem with the hypothetical described in the content of your post. I think it's fine to say to a kid, "We'll give you a scholarship, but only if you get your grades up to (whatever benchmark)."
What would be strange would be, as your title suggests, that he's being kept out for reasons other than grades (assuming those "reasons" are the same troubles he had in the past). I hope that if he's being kept out for non-academic reasons, that they are new reasons, i.e., new (post-signing day) transgressions of some kind (of which I have no evidence, btw).
I hope that if he's being kept out for non-academic reasons, that they are new reasons
Sam knows something -- he's hinted at it more than once, but he just can't be specific about it. The tendency is to assume it is a problem, but it could be a change of heart. I'm not sure I would want to come either, after getting smacked around in the local media like he did.
You make a good and irrefutable point: Dorsey himself could be having second thoughts, although the espn post just below this makes it seem as if Michigan is holding off letting him in for some reason.
If he qualifies through the NCAA I would like to see him given a chance to go to UM. When you are 15-16 years old and are an incredible athlete it's easy to dick off in math class because you don't have the long term thinking process to understand how bad you might be fucking yourself. The only reason I mention the athlete part is because in that class there is probably ten other kids doing the same thing, the difference is the NCAA will never give a shit what their core GPA is.
Once DD is on campus he,like all football players, will have access to tudors as well as attend mandatory study hall. The chances that he does well in class will never be more in his favor than the day he sets foot on campus. Hope it works out for him and I will believe he isn't coming when TOMVH tells me so. Dave Birkett can shut the fuck up, I am more interested in what the WVU alumni have to say about RR.
This was just posted on ESPN..
"Demar is an NCAA qualifier with a 2.5 or 2.6 GPA and an 18 score on the ACT," said James. "But he hasn't yet been granted at Michigan."
http://sports.espn.go.com/ncaa/recruiting/football/news/story?id=5261493
There is no way DD is the first kid with a 2.5 GPA and 18 ACT score to be recruited by UM. If true, this really sucks. Maybe he can join Witty at Cincy and in a couple years Butch Jones can thank UM admissions for giving him a great defensive backfield
Suggests that the hold up may deal with Demar's past legal issues. The same legal issues he had on signing day. I don't understand the bureacratic structure at Michigan, Sam Webb maintained that the decision to offer Dorsey and accept his commitment was not just a Rich Rod decision, that others at the University were in on approving the offer. Wouldn't one of those other parties have to be admissions?!
Given our administrative problems as of late, perhaps it is too much to expect for the athletic department to work closely with admissions to vet these kids.
As bitter as I sound, the true "loser" in this scenario is (may be?) Demar Dorsey, who may be denied 4 years in Ann Arbor, a time of my life I wouldn't trade.
The article says:
James suggested that some of Dorsey's issues with his admission may stem from his previous transgressions with the law.
"It's very possible," James added. "I've been talking with the coaches [at Michigan] and they continue to work on it."
This gives me the impression that the coaching staff is more-or-less lobbying the admissions department to let him in.
If it isn't a qualification issue and rather a legal issue, I would hope this is something new that we haven't heard of. If this is for his past transgression, then U of M admissions just cost us a good player.
Sounds like we need D.B. to step in and have a sit down with Admissions and give them his "Do You Know the Enemy?" speech/ song!
I feel very bad for this kid. He is trying to achieve his dream of playing football on a big time stage and it seems he is getting trampled on. First, he gets a hackjob from the Freep and now this debacle. I really hope the admissionsoffice is not being political and taking away Rich Rod's best recruit for the entire Big Ten to help the "Fire Rich Rod" regime. Everybody deserves a second chance, let this kid prove himself.
I think some people have a distorted view of UM and the academics on a national scale. UM isnt lumped in with schools like Stanford. UM is considered by most to be a "good" school. 99.99999% of the world would say UM (in an academic sense) is on par with OSU or PSU. And schools like them are not only getting multiple 5 star recruits.....they are finding a way to get them admitted. We however get lucky enough to get a single 5 star to still come around and cant find a way to get him in? UM needs to find a way to get this kid cleared. We arent Northwestern. Who respects NW(in a football sense)? Thier football program is a joke and they arent even taken seriously. But ask an alumn and they'll defend with "but we have high standards". Is that what we are aspiring to?
MIchigan's strengh is its graduate programs. The UofM is one of the leading research universities in the world.
With respect to undergraduate education, Michigan's commitment to diversity and to instate students unfairly lowers its ranking because the measures used to do the ranking do not take such things into account. Nevertheless, the University of Michigan is ranked well ahead of OSU and PSU.
Michigan engineering is consistently in the top 5 for most areas, top 10 for others. Michigan pharmacy, law, business, are all incredibly strong (top 5 or top 10). OSU and PSU aren't even close. I'd be surprised if they were even top 25.
http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-graduate-schools…
Michigan is #8 across all engineering majors. Northwestern is only #24. Purdue is #13 and Wisconsin is #15. I dunno why people think Northwestern is so great.
For undergrad: http://colleges.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/best-colleges/spec-doct-e…
Michigan is # 7 overall tied with Carnegie Mellon. Illinois is suprisingly ranked higher, which I don't necessarily agree with. Purdue also makes the list at #9. Northwestern is not to be found.
No one can deny that Stanford and Berkeley are superior schools, but Michigan is no slouch either. Generally, Michigan is considered a Tier II school within Academia (Tier I is Stanford, Berkeley, MIT, CMU for graduate-level computer engineering), with schools like PSU and OSU not even making the list.
You know what, I re-read both the real articles (ESPN, and Detnews), and I don't see where it says Michigan has not accepted Demar after he has passed the clearinghouse. In something I read recently, someone branded us Michigan fans an Eeyorish group.
Maybe we're all worried about nothing. Maybe the admissions department requires official notification from the NCAA, and transcripts, etc., and those things all come though their own individual bureaucracies ...
Maybe the reported fact that his grades are high enough that he has or will clear the NCAA clearinghouse is good news, and we all should just chill out while the wheels of administration turn.
Before we get too upset at our admissions department, we should note that we don't suffer that much academic attrition among the players we do admit. Other schools have a higher rate of academic casualties. That may be related to us being slightly pickier about whom we admit. The reality is that the guys who struggle to become qualified in the first place often go on to struggle academically at the college level (and this has happened to some of the guys we've sent to prep school, like Slocum and McKinney). Our admissions department has to make an informed decision about whether or not a kid can survive academically here. Based on our low academic-casualty rate, they seem to be doing a good job overall.