Cornell Basketball Blog: Cornell as 12th team?
Just saw a cool bit from the cornell basketball blog on why they think Cornell might be a good 12th member. They have academics down and their sports teams are pretty good (for FCS). However, I'd put the odds of Cornell wanting to leave the Ivy League and the Big10 having mutual interest at about 0%. Cool read though
http://cornellbasketball.blogspot.com/2009/03/should-cornell-leave-ivy-…
December 15th, 2009 at 11:45 PM ^
But in terms of athletics, how do they expect to do?
December 15th, 2009 at 11:52 PM ^
Would be a great step toward the development of a Big Ten Hockey Conference.
And it's in Ithaca. Ever heard of it?
December 16th, 2009 at 11:48 AM ^
beautiful college campuses I've ever seen. I'd swear even the janitor's closets are covered in stained glass.
On the other hand, the thought of the maize and blue taking the field at some 2,000+ stadium is just unacceptable. And I'm just so damn sick of already playing all these red football teams.
December 16th, 2009 at 12:12 AM ^
They cannot play Big Ten football anymore than I could have. Love the academics and geography, but it makes no sense for either party. They can't play the major sports at a competitive level and a good bit of their academic cache comes from being part of the Ivy League. They are UVA but in the Ivy League, essentially; their name carries more weight because of the affiliation. In the Big Ten they would only be known for Andy Bernard and being terrible at sports.
December 16th, 2009 at 12:16 AM ^
except hockey and bball, which they are pretty decent at.
December 16th, 2009 at 1:40 AM ^
I'm sure very few people on this blog realize it, but Cornell basketball beat Alabama in Tuscaloosa this year. Michigan lost to them at a neutral site. Don't look down on their athletics. Hockey, lacrosse, wrestling, basketball, and track are all very good. They are top-5 in hockey, lax, and wrestling and basketball they are probably around 30 or 35 in the country. In fact, Coach Boeheim said his game against Cornell bball this year would be the Orange's toughest game of the season. As for your statement that it's UVA in the ivy league - that's just wrong. It's a top 15 university and is consistently ranked above Brown (which is the true bastard child of the Ivy League).
Will this happen? No way. Is it an interesting idea? Absolutely.
December 16th, 2009 at 10:12 AM ^
Funny you mention Brown, that's where I went. I'm sure you realize that 40% of the rankings are perception based (peer reputation), thus exactly what I am talking about. Both Cornell and Brown benefit greatly from their Ivy affiliation in terms of prestige. That is exactly the point.
Also Cornell is historically miserable at basketball. 2 years does not make them a Big 10 caliber program. You do not bring someone into the conference because they are good this year. That is the danger with Cincinnati or Rutgers football, actually. All Ivies are sound in the fringe/olympic sports, and that's great, but the conferences are not established for the sake of finding good squash or water polo opponents, they are about marketing and money. Two sports generate money. For the better part of a century Cornell has been lousy at both.
December 16th, 2009 at 10:18 AM ^
Sadly, I would have to agree with this. The run for the bball team the last few years has been great, but I do not think that it will last too long or that the Red could compete in the Big Ten. Also, I would say that the student following of the team is still nowhere on par with other Big Ten schools, though that could simply just be from inertia and a lack of exposure a la the lack of popularity of college hockey.
December 16th, 2009 at 12:42 AM ^
They've got 36 varsity teams, and are typically pretty good in hockey and Basketball (which as been mentioned) they're a major Lacrosse power and they've got solid rowing, volleyball, softball and wrestling programs. Cornell would probably be a solid contributor in just about everything except football, which for better or worse is pretty much a deal breaker.
Something that was mentioned in OP's link was that Cornell has a very "Big Ten" feel on campus. I totally agree. My step father worked there, and every time I've been out to Ithaca to see him I've been strongly reminded of Ann Arbor.
December 16th, 2009 at 12:39 AM ^
lol...lol...lol
December 16th, 2009 at 1:19 AM ^
Ivy league schools can't give out athletic scholarships. Secondly, Michigan:Northwestern::Northwestern:Cornell. Think about that.
December 16th, 2009 at 2:29 AM ^
Could they give out athletic scholarship if they WEREN'T an ivy league school?
Think about THAT.
December 16th, 2009 at 9:42 AM ^
Not only would they have to leave the Ivy League they'd have to spend a lot of money upgrading facilities. I am pretty sure just the b10 would make them commit to building a larger stadium and 85 scholarships. If Cornell committed to fielding a competitive football team I bet they could. I just don't think their faculty and alumni would allow them to leave the prestige of the Ivy League.
December 16th, 2009 at 10:26 AM ^
"If Cornell committed to fielding a competitive football team I bet they could"
I am not so sure. Have you seen an Ivy game recently? No offense if any of my friends who were on the team are reading this, but the talent level there is really deficient. It is like a different world from BCS 1-A, and it would really take a lot of time and effort to just get up to a mid-level MAC type team. Also, there is very little recruiting base in New York to build up talent, and I doubt they would immediately drop all standards to allow fringe qualifiers through the doors.
The rest of your statement is spot on.
December 16th, 2009 at 10:09 AM ^
They never crossed my mind, but I actually think this is the best suggestion I've heard. Obviously they'd have to make the scholarship commitment and bulk up in football and basketball, but everything else seems pretty nice. I am just not excited about any of the other possibilities (save BC). This really interests me.
December 16th, 2009 at 10:12 AM ^
As a recent Cornell grad and lifelong Michigan fan, I would say that 1. Cornell is only interested in academics and will not leave the Ivies and 2. I really wouldn't like to see it happen.
I really missed the big game atmosphere at Michigan while in Ithaca and wished it was a part of my own college experience, but I just do not see this as a positive for either party. The Big Ten (athletics focused) would be weakened athletically, and Cornell (academics focused) would be weakened academically.
Also, this has already been mentioned, but the facilities are nowhere near close enough to being adequate for the Big Ten. Schoellkopf is great architecturally, but it seats 25000 and only gets maybe 5000 per game. Newman Arena is like a high school gym--not even a glorified high school gym. Sure, Lynah is great and has the best atmosphere in college hockey, but that is the CCHA and not the Big Ten. On top of spending the money and effort in upgrading the facilities, you would have to change the culture of the administration, faculty, and student body, and I think that would be the most difficult thing of all.
December 16th, 2009 at 11:22 AM ^
as a Michigan alumnus and current Cornell grad student, if i were in charge i would say yes to this instantaneously. on the other hand, it has virtually 0 chance of happening.
first: football. remember guys, the Ivy League is an FCS non-playoff conference. Cornell can't sponsor FBS football for at least a couple years even after a conference shift. that's not to mention that i've had several Cornell football players as students, and while they're nice guys, they would be carted off the field with joints going in impossible directions if they had to play Penn State, OSU, hell, even us.
second: basketball. again, the Ivy League is a non-tournament conference. Cornell's NCAA runs have come by virtue of them winning the Ivy League regular season, which is 14 games of home-and-home against the likes of the Amaker squad from Harvard, or even better, Brown. Cornell went 11-3 in conference last year; 9-5 would have clinched a berth anyway. they don't even have to string together 3 wins in a conference tourney to go to the dance.
third: hockey. my hopes and prayers for a Cornell - Michigan matchup in last year's frozen four were dashed on both accounts. honestly though, for creating a Big Ten hockey conference i think you've got a better shot courting The Dynasty from the MAC (who are great academically and suck at pretty much every sport except hockey). Cornell are very happy in the ECAC, where they get their Ivy rivals, especially Harvard. i _wish_ they would play a full season, opening up more non-conference games.
so i think, given that apparently the 1990 series against Cornell at Yost was the most epic weekend of hockey ever (http://www.mgoblue.com/facilities/yost-arena-attendance.html), we should be talking to Cornell. Cornell finally got a big non-conference series this year (two games vs. NoDak in late January). put Michigan on the non-conference schedule. i will be there, whether it's 10 minutes to Lynah or 10 hours to Yost.
December 16th, 2009 at 12:05 PM ^
Cornell also has had series with NoDak and Michigan State the past few years, and they have resumed the old BU rivalry by playing at MSG every Thanksgiving weekend. No doubt though, the restrictions of the Ivy League keep their out of conference matchups down.
I was really hoping for a Cornell-Michigan matchup this year at Ford Field, which I still think there is some hope. Granted, I have not seen one M game while abroad, so I really don't know. I just can't imagine M missing the tournament.
December 16th, 2009 at 12:08 PM ^
would be sweet but it appears your 'most epic weekend of hockey ever' is misplaced. it looks like they got 19,114 over a 3 game stretch which is ~6370 a game. whereas the MSU series of the late 80s averaged 16676 a series for about 8338 a game. 8000+ in yost for MSU is epic
December 16th, 2009 at 1:18 PM ^
ever heard of it?
December 16th, 2009 at 1:30 PM ^
and to cornell for grad school, so i would kinda dig this. however, when i put cornell in the big ten in ncaa football 2005 for xbox, it did not work out well. i think that is a pretty solid indicator.
December 16th, 2009 at 2:09 PM ^
I'm the opposite of aMAIZEingSean--went to Cornell undergrad, Michigan for grad school--and when I read this, I almost spit coffee all over my monitor. I'm not sure the Cornell football team would be good enough to serve as Michigan's scout team.