Coaching bits Day 4
"Some definite Ed Cooley buzz" per Brian Snow. Supposedly he and Warde are buddies so that makes him a candidate. His offenses are brutal and I mean BRUTAL. He's never had a top 25 kenpom offense and the last four years they have ranked 164, 100, 101, and 92 on O. He would also probably offer the least amount of continuity among the rumored candidates. HARD PASS.
Oh Howard:
Juwan Howard tells me #Michigan has retained Turnkey Sports for its coaching search. Howard has spoken with them and has been informed that Wolverines AD Warde Manuel is very interested in speaking with him.
— Jordan Schultz (@Schultz_Report) May 17, 2019
Maybe by this time next week Warde will get around to actually speaking with a candidate. Not like recruits aren't making decisions and assistants aren't getting interviewed or anything.
Also per Snow the guy at Turnkey running the search is close to Billy Donovan who highly recommended Shaka Smart. Would be a great recruiter but would need a strong support staff and assistants around him.
Tick tock.
team juwan here (especially with staff retention)
guess within a vacuum of information, im not judging the process as this contact/reports of interest could have happened before today. i am at least happy they reached out to the big fish first. now need to choose from the imperfect pool
I’m team Howard as well, look at Hardaway in Memphis just landed another top 50 recruit today for being who he is, Coach B was an amazing coach and couldn’t get a lot of top 50 guys.
That's not really why he's recruiting well. He had his own AAU team Team Penny and has deep ties to many of these prospects. There's that and of course the whole dropping bags thing too. Howard has neither of those at his disposal.
You have zero intel on him having bagman.
And you have zero common sense if you believe a first year NIT coach could recruit this well in this climate of college basketball after the FBI wiretaps became public not to.
his name rings bells to kids, families and coaches. The fbi wiretaps didn’t have evidence on him or his AAU team. You are spewing bullshit, because you are a crybaby. Everyday you come onto this blog crying and spewing bullshit.
Your response made me laugh pretty hard.
+1 sir
...have a Snickers.
The FBI wiretaps dealt with one runner/agent, one shoe company, and one agency. It was hardly all encompassing of every problem with every school and coach across college basketball. They were also recorded well before Hardaway was ever the Memphis coach. You have no clue what you are talking about but if you want to have your head in the sand to each his own.
It’s you that has no clue what theyre talking about. You’re trying to shame someone and the job they’ve have done without any proof, you’re trying to use common sense as your proof but in reality, the law nor the world functions that way. In the real world this would be defamation of character. Seriously man get a life.
You may not like Maizen and that is perfectly understandable, but the chances of Memphis running a squeaky clean program is pretty close to zero.
Says who? Unless we have evidence of the contrary Penny/Memphis are not cheating. Kids are still wearing his shoes currently, so I definitely think he has major pull on the recruiting trail. If I was a prospect and Penny Hardaway walked into my living room I’d be intrigued.
C'mon...we all weren't born yesterday. Memphis suddenly has something like an absurd eight commits in the top 100. Do we think those guys weren't getting $$$ offers from other schools? So everyone just suddenly goes to Memphis for $0 because Penny Hardaway is sort of well known and was good at basketball before these guys were born. The money is flowwwwing in Memphis
While I admire and respect your distaste for 1201 and his relentless shitposting, there's not one single quality that makes Memphis a better college basketball option than about 30 other schools I can think of. Not one. Not academics, not location, not history, not facilities, and certainly not their new coach who has proven nothing at the college level.
And you're trying to say Memphis is out-racing Duke, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky and anybody else with a bag for the top class in the nation? The top RECRUIT in the nation? Nobody else can do that. And not only are they the first program to ever outrun the bagman, but Anfernee is also outracing every clean program out there as well?!
Michigan can't even get on the same page of the leaderboard despite a (formerly) hall of fame coach, academic prestige, history of success on the court as well as pumping out NBA draft picks on the regular, etc. Can barely even get a look from Top-50 guys. Neither can Izzo and MSU despite two decades of Final Fours. But I'm supposed to believe Hardaway has cracked the code?
"No, sir. I'm not looking for any improper benefits. I just want to spend the next few years at a place where I can succeed on the court, as well as really achieve in the classroom in case my basketball plans don't pan out. That's why I chose.... fucking Memphis, lol."
The number 1 recruit just so happened to be in the same city as the school and be from the same area as Penny, who also is a legend in Memphis. Who went to Treadwell high school (which since closed to be a middle school) and now the students from that area go to East high school which the number 1 recruit just so happens to go to
I know. What a coinkydink. Convenient for his family to pick up checks so close to home.
To “we are back”. Memphis is 95% paying players. Why are you denying this ? It’s pretty bizarre.
Anyways, we should hire Howard and ensure he has a competent network of bagmen to recruit with.
Penny’s best NBA season in the incoming class’ lifetimes was 10.6pts a game. His NBA career is pretty much irrelevant. Memphis has a history of paying players, the AAU coaches have a history of cheating. You are going to have a hard time convincing me that they are clean
The Investigation was Addidas. Memphis, and presumably Penny’s AAU team, Nike. Guilty or innocent, his name wouldn’t have come up
And you have zero common sense if you believe a first year NIT coach could recruit this well in this climate of college basketball after the FBI wiretaps became public not to.
Ignore how many years he's coached. Ignore how successful his team was (or wasn't). He's Penny fucking Hardaway, and that's how he recruits so well.
He may certainly be a good recruiter, but right now he is outpacing all of the blue bloods (Kansas, UK, Duke, North Carolina etc.). That doesn't happen at a school like Memphis unless there are some under the table dealings going on.
He may certainly be a good recruiter, but right now he is outpacing all of the blue bloods (Kansas, UK, Duke, North Carolina etc.). That doesn't happen at a school like Memphis unless there are some under the table dealings going on
...or unless the recruiter/coach is an a charismatic and relatable NBA legend and one time pop culture icon who kids really want to not just play for, but also simply be around.
If he doesn't start producing and showing he can actually coach these kids, his star power as a recruiting tool will fade, and he won't be getting #1 classes. But for now, Occam's Razor tells us the most logical explanation for his recruiting prowess is the curiosity factor caused by him being who he is.
Time will tell though.
The kids he is recruiting today were not alive when his shoes and commercials and dolls were being sold. Yes there is Youtube, and yes you can still go find his shoes online but that is still not the same as the mainstream media hyping up a product he endorses every time there is a commercial break. So the pop culture icon part of his life is in the very distant rear view mirror.
And I wouldn't call him a legend. He isn't in the Hall of Fame in a league where so many guys make it. I get the injuries derailed a promising career but no more so than Grant Hill and Hill is in the Hall while the majority would not call Hill a basketball legend.
Yes and no, the kids don’t know him like that but the parents and AAU and high school coaches do, yes he might not be relevant to pop culture per day but his shoes (foamposite) have kids lining out the door for them spending thousands on them when they run out.
Fair enough. Well spoken.
Yeah I’m texting in a traffic jam, trying to be quick lol
You're doing well. I respect your opinion on the matter. We can disagree but it has been civil so I appreciate that.
If that mattered then Patrick Ewing would be signing top 5 classes too.
There's one big thing that Ewing lacks that Penny has boatloads of: charisma...and holy shit does Penny have a ton of it. He exudes confidence, positivity and cool. The dude had his own commercials, had his own doll, had his own shoes, starred in a movie that resonates with any kid going through the basketball recruiting process (Ewing's Space Jam cameo doesn't compare). His style of play in his day was what all these kids want to be like. Ewing is a legend no doubt, but his star power doesn't resonate like Penny's does.
I'm not quite sure why very high talent kids wanting to play for him is a surprise to anyone. I think it may a testament to how out of touch with the teenage male mind a lot of us are as we get older.
All of the charisma, confidence, positivity, coolness, commercials and dolls and Shaq still won his rings with Kobe and Wade.
(This post is purely based on the feeling that because of the way you are defending Penny, you must have been a Magic fan back in the day.)
I'm not and was not a Magic fan, so that shot whooshes right over my head. In fact, I personally despise the NBA in general and only tuned in only when I was bandwagonning the Pistons when they were relevant.
As someone who was recruited for football (on a much much lesser level than the kids we're talking about), and watching my sister getting recruited for women's ball on an elite level, I'm just putting myself in the perspective of some kid getting recruited and what sometimes appeals more to them than what appeals to the older fans like us.
A swing and a miss by me then. You calling Penny a legend when it is debatable whether he was even the best Hardaway in the league in the 90s made me think you may be a little biased.
Best of luck for your sister.
Definitely not one of the greats, but his trajectory was headed there in the 90s before it fizzled a bit. The legend stuff relates to his college career, what he did in the pros when healthy, and his off the court success/popularity during that time.
And thank you about my sister, but that was over 20 years ago. She got to play in a final four, but used up her eligibilty one year before they won an NC. Not bad, all things considered.
On a related note, she does have first hand dirt on certain famous mens players who played in her conference who were getting paid.
Running an AAU team is pretty good circumstantial evidence for dirty money
Cooley would be an absolute disaster. That's Yakich-Line for me.
Warde is close with Cooley? Yeah, no Country Club mentality at Michigan.....nope.
that mentality can work, if the dude is qualified...and he isn't. Yak and Howard are vastly better options. Ideally, I'd like to see Howard, and retain Yak, and then when Howard goes back to NBA, to promote Yak.
Sounds like Yaklich will be with Shaka Smart whether that's here or at Texas. I wouldn't count on Howard being able to retain him at this point based on what's out there.
I am at the point where I want Shaka if it means Yak too. Howard and no Yak feels riskier than Shaka with Yak.
hey Warde, why not do your fucking job and not go on Africa trips at the worst moment, instead of hiring these 'search firms'. Hackett didn't, did he ? If so, my bad.
Beilein told Manuel he was having discussions with the Cavs on May 1st. Warde then went to Africa and sent him 1 text in the 11 days that followed. This is mind boggling to me. I have no idea how he isn't catching more shit for this.
Soon after, on May 2, Manuel traveled to South Africa with the Michigan football team. The only communication between the two in the days that followed was a text message from Manuel to Beilein asking how things were going. Beilein responded that all was well and the two should catch up. Their next contact was 11 days later, on Monday morning, when Beilein called Manuel to tell him he had accepted the job with the Cavaliers."
Warde found out this morning, around 8:15, 8:20. He had known about the conversations taking place since the beginning of May. Says May 1, May 2 was around when he first talked to Beilein about this.
— Orion Sang (@orion_sang) May 13, 2019
"I have no idea how he isn't catching more shit for this."
...we know. You mention it in every single thread.
Btw, thank you for all the information this week.
"The only communication between the two in the days that followed was a text message from Manuel to Beilein asking how things were going. Beilein responded that all was well and the two should catch up. Their next contact was 11 days later,"
It's possible that Manuel was speaking/communicating with other people about the search—such as the outfit doing the vetting—in the intervening 11 days.
If he literally spent no time on what he had to know was going to be a likely search during those 11 days, then I'd say it was outright neglect of his duties as AD.
It certainly does not feel or seem like he has. Frankly, it does not feel like the Athletic Department is really taking this particularly seriously right now. A lot of things about this baffle me.
I understand that Manuel was scheduled to go to South Africa and that it may not have been ideal to opt out. But John Beilein has been the face of the (very successful) basketball program for 12 years right now. I feel like they should have scheduled a press-conference to announce his departure. I feel like Manuel should have had a press-conference to announce how committed they are to basketball and to getting this right, and how much Beilein has meant to the school and the program. I feel like somebody, anybody, besides Jalen Rose, should be acting like this matters.
If I have a scheduled trip and I haven't met a deadline on some project that seriously only impacts like 6 people I have to cancel the trip. Or even if he went on the trip, communicate with the fan base in some manner and show some urgency and proactivity. Part of what is very difficult about this for fans in that all of this is a BIG DEAL for fans of this program and it just doesn't feel like it is for the people who are actually involved in it.
I know that football is the golden goose but frankly we aren't very good at football and haven't been for a while. We were actually really good at basketball and it just doesn't feel like it is that important than we remain that way to the people making the decisions.
The thing that bothers me is that Warde Manuel manages a department of over 350 people and his 2nd most valuable employee told him he was considering other job offers and his response to that was to go on a safari and send him one text in the next 11 days. I mean how is he not catching a shit storm right now?
his cell might not have gotten reception in South Africa
See, I read it a bit differently:
His MOST valuable employee and top performer told him he was looking to move up the ladder(again), and instead of reacting in a way that might keep that top employee, he went to Africa with his second most valuable employee.
Couldn't agree more
Your theory seems much more realistic than Warde sitting on his hands enjoying the Giraffes. It's been 16 days since that first call from JB to Warde. I would imagine that would be plenty of time to gather information on his "short list" and start moving forward with the one-on-one interview process. To this date, there have been zero leaks on interviews that have taken place. In today's media, that never happens. If Warde is doing his job, he's super slow at doing it.
The ghost of Bill Martin and sail boats rear their ugly head.