Is Chip Kelly the new Rodriguez?
Alternatively, have the students (Meyer, Kelly, Kelly et. al.) surpassed the teacher (RR) of the spread?
Before formally asking this question, one giant caveat, one in fact that some may say explains away this issue completely: these coaches are working with proven, experienced QB's and offensive players with more experience in their systems than Michigan's.
Now to my question. It seems to my (never coached) eye, particularly watching the Oregon game last night, that I see far more creativity and variety in the offensive sets and plays from Oregon, Florida and other Rodriguez spread offense disciples than I see in our offense in year two (repeat caveat above). There have been several times this year, even against Illinois, where I said to myself "wish we had that set in our offense."
Do the former coaches who post here, or other x's and o guys, agree?
EDIT: This is not criticism in any way of RR, just a speculation that it looks to my eye that some guys that learned from him may have taken the ball and improved even more on the template of the offense.
December 4th, 2009 at 4:26 PM ^
I don't know, but my sources say ND has contacted him about a potential role as a Coach. At least it isn't Brian!!!!!11111111111111
December 4th, 2009 at 4:27 PM ^
I think when we have some experience on the offensive side of the ball, you are going to forget all about Florida and Oregon. Rich Rod's offenses are proven. He unfortunately has very young talent on the offensive side of the ball.
December 4th, 2009 at 4:31 PM ^
oregon has a 5th year senior at QB and has been running this offense for far longer than we have. thus chip kelly can run more of his offense
December 4th, 2009 at 5:30 PM ^
Masoli is in his second year at Oregon..he is a JUCO transfer and has one year of eligibility left.
December 4th, 2009 at 6:29 PM ^
you have a QB who's not only older than Forcier but his skill set fits perfectly with the system. he's also been in the offense over a year longer than Forcier.
not to mention that Chip Kelly was hired from within the Oregon program and they have ran a similar system for a long, long time. whereas RR has had to deal with a depleted roster with completely different player skill sets built for a pro system!
December 5th, 2009 at 2:00 AM ^
Ehhh, that's not entirely true. Kelly arrived at Oregon as OC in 2007 from New Hampshire. Oregon has been transitioning to a spread offense since 2005 or so, but it was his touch that really made the whole thing take off.
But the transition was undoubtedly much, much smoother.
December 4th, 2009 at 4:34 PM ^
...would be to compare Oregon to West Virginia three-to-four years ago - like, when they had players that could run the system
December 4th, 2009 at 4:39 PM ^
Has everything to do with Michigan's players/experience of the players (or lack thereof).
December 4th, 2009 at 4:40 PM ^
Also, we barely run any option stuff (the bread and butter of RR's spread). We can't start getting creative until we can get the basics down. If only Forcier could fake the handoffs like Masoli...
December 4th, 2009 at 4:40 PM ^
How does Oregon do against tuOSU in the Rose Bowl? I can't decide if I want Oregon to win, to shut the OSU fans up for at least 5 minutes, or root for the Big 10...... Screw it, Go Ducks.
December 4th, 2009 at 6:04 PM ^
Ducks ducks ducks ducks
December 4th, 2009 at 4:42 PM ^
once rodriguez gets the veteran personnel he needs, you'll see plenty more creativity.
December 4th, 2009 at 5:07 PM ^
Rodriguez gave up learning as a coach a long time ago once he became successful. His dream was to get the Michigan job, not to actually win here. His lack of success lately relative to other spread coaches has nothing to do with players who can take the spread to the next level. He accomplished what he wanted and just wants to go through the motions. An analogy may help - ever since I lost my virginity in a 60-second missionary positional venture, I decided I would never experiment beyond that position, or try to gain more stamina, even though I had a more experienced "player." I accomplished the feat of losing my virginity, and dont desire to try more. I achieved my goal, even though it did cost me a lot of money. Been there, done that. Much like RR. Having "players" that can take the "spread" to a pinnacle, or "climax" if you will, is meaningless to me, and to RR.
December 4th, 2009 at 5:27 PM ^
the giant blinking caveat I mentioned--twice ("those teams all have better, more experienced personnel to work with") and my assurance that I was not criticizing our offense, was lost in the desire to be sarcastic. That's cool, I've done it myself, but usually not to legit topics when the questioner was being modest and asking a serious question. See you around.
December 4th, 2009 at 5:37 PM ^
Dude. Relax. I know you meant it as a serious question, but I didnt think it warranted a serious answer anymore. I think, like you suggested, that your giant blinking caveat explained away the question (I thought you answered your own question), and further that others thoroughly answered your question. So I thought I would have some fun. It wasn't a serious jab at you. And, see me around? Is that some sort of threat for even more negs than the one you just gave me? Lighten up.
December 4th, 2009 at 5:42 PM ^
I save that for posters that are total dicks, not just dickish. And I said "see you around" as the first (hopefully) "I"m leaving this blog" joke after reading the flameout post from that dude.
December 4th, 2009 at 6:07 PM ^
I hope youre joking. Getting the Michigan job is meaningless if you have a losing record and get fired after 3 seasons. His offense seems very basic but I cant believe he is just mailing it in.
December 5th, 2009 at 12:19 AM ^
Yikes! And I thought the Hurricane Katrina analogy was bad.
December 5th, 2009 at 12:31 AM ^
Don't you think this analysis is getting a little bit old? I mean, really, isn't this just the same re hash (with a decidedly unfunny anecdote at the end) of that old saw the "Fire RichRod" posts of the mid part of last month? I think you can do a bit better than pretend mind reading "his dream was to get the Michigan job, not to actually win here" and deficient analysis "he accomplished what he wanted and just wants to go through the motions".
Just do better next time.
December 5th, 2009 at 12:40 AM ^
Wow. Let me spell this out for you and all the others you followed - there was nothing serious in my post. N-o-t-h-i-n-g. Do better to understand sarcasm next time.
December 4th, 2009 at 6:07 PM ^
I think Rodriguez will succeed when we get the players we need, but teams with spread option offenses like: Oregon, Florida and even Utah and Illinois have shown more variance and creativity than Rodriguez does or even did at WVU. Rodriguez runs a very simple spread option in comparison.
December 4th, 2009 at 6:23 PM ^
I think he recognizes the need to adapt further. Witness him going to Oklahoma last offseason to study how they incorporated the TE in their passing attack.
December 4th, 2009 at 7:59 PM ^
Indeed, I think all coaches are constantly looking to evolve. It's very possible, and in fact quite likely, that Meyer and Kelly have invented some things that RichRod can learn from.
Having said that, I go back to a point that Bo made in his book:
After his 6-6 year, he was visiting some coaches. They all had fancy schemes. Bo claims he felt overwhelmed, and wondered if the game had passed him by. Then he asked why their defense was ranked so low, despite all the fancy blitzes. The other coach responded: "Well, we aren't very good at tackling." At that point, Bo apparently knew that he could be successful by getting back to the basics.
That's how I remember the book, at least.
December 4th, 2009 at 8:50 PM ^
Rodriguez believes that I think. He doesn't spend a lot of time making a huge amount of plays and adjustments (Meyer does a little bit, but Chip Kelly would be the main offender of over scheming). I haven't seen a legitimate Michigan playbook, but everyone here seems to agree that he doesn't run a ton of plays. In his last year at WVU, he had raised a top OL, had great runners, and a tough defense. Sounds like a Bo (Or any rational coach) philosophy to me.
December 4th, 2009 at 6:36 PM ^
THERE is no doubt in my mind that rich is doing everything he can to keep the system up to date. Whether it is by keeping in contact with.....BOB STOOPS.....URBAN MEYER..... or simply coming up with new schemes himself.
December 4th, 2009 at 6:59 PM ^
I bet he calls Weis for some defensive input. That appeared to be Weiss' M-O
December 4th, 2009 at 7:09 PM ^
The schemes aren't that similair. Urban Meyer draws more from his coaching past than he does Rodriguez. Chip Kelly is pretty unique in his schemes, he's pretty good about his evolution, I loved the idea of having the QB turn around to hand off on the stretch out of the "mid line position" of the running back (Running back is like 2 yards back and half a yard to the side of the QB). Chip Kelly is constantly trying to get his running backs down hill. Rodriguez wants to stretch the field with running backs and receivers, and let his QB attack up field away from the flow. He doesn't run a lot of plays, not only apparent in his playbooks that made it online, but as you can see as a fan. He's more about raising the best team physically than trying to make up something as unorthodox as the A-11.
I would say as a coach Urban Meyer has surpassed (Awhile ago) Rodriguez, and everyone else in the country at this point in time. We'll see how Rodriguez raises his team up.
December 5th, 2009 at 2:18 AM ^
I was thinking about this earlier. All three of these coaches, and I would say Rodriguez, Meyer, and Kelly are the three best spread-to-run coaches in the country right now, rely upon different base plays. With RichRod it's the Outside Zone Read/ZR Stretch, Kelly relies upon the Inside Zone, and Meyer uses the Power/Dive/Counter combination. Obviously, they throw in other plays as well, witness our counter-dive in the ND game this year.
But I would be curious to see why each coach uses the play-set that he does. What are the positives and negatives to each set? Assuming each of the coaches has experience players to run their system, which is most brutally effective?
In other words, its the off-season.