CBS's Doyel on Notre Dame and the Big 10
Doyel's latest (on Notre Dame and the Big 10)...
http://www.cbssports.com/collegefootball/story/12687984/independence-is…
Typical effort. Discuss.
December 21st, 2009 at 6:44 AM ^
...it had one zinger after another. My favorite line was this one:
"The money is demonstrably better and the football would probably be better as well, but Notre Dame refuses to join a conference. Why? For the same reason a stubborn child refuses to wear a jacket in the cold -- because."
It's always great to start the morning off with a belly laugh. I have a feeling, though, that the ND people are going to like this about as much as most of us here like the freep.
December 21st, 2009 at 7:29 AM ^
I think that the author hits the nail right on the head here about the Golden Domers, but I never had any illusions of them joining the Big Ten due to their zeal for independence. To be perfectly honest, I would rather just see the Big 10 get rid of Penn State and have every team play each other every year (teams could still play 3 non conference games this way). I know that I am probably in the minority on this one, but I am not really a fan of conference title games.
December 21st, 2009 at 8:03 AM ^
They are one of the B10's better teams...that doesnt't make any sense.
December 21st, 2009 at 11:04 AM ^
Right when the Big Ten is a pile of mediocre shit this guy (and a few others I've senn) have THE solution: Kick Penn State out!
If Penn State would have made some of the UM fans happy and joined the Big East instead (so the Big Ten could remain firmly stuck in 1869)--that conference would be, oh, a HELL of alot better than the Big Ten right about now. Probably wouldn't have lost BC at least, if not Miami and VaTech.
Look at us. We think our Big Ten poop doesn't stink, and whenever the subject of the SEC comes up, we're all "Mein Gott! Ze SEC is teh zuck! Ja! Vould you like me to put zees zigarette out in your eye! JA! How did zat feel! Now I vill hold my breath und turn blue until you repeat after me: ZEE SEC IS TEH ZUCK! ZAy it you icehole!"
So, instead of adding a team, we'll just stand pat and play eight conference games and Notre Dame then bitch when our champion is eventually relegated to playing in the Johnson & Johnson Colon Polyp Bowl. OR--we'll kick Penn State out and get what we've always wanted: A playoff! (as a member of the FBS)
December 21st, 2009 at 7:41 AM ^
"If Notre Dame were a historical figure, it would be snobby airhead Marie Antoinette -- wasting away on a diet of sponge cake."
And this gem, "Notre Dame is big on fairy tales -- like the one about the greatness of Fighting Irish football."
December 21st, 2009 at 11:10 AM ^
reading between the lines, seems to me he was alluding to belief in very much bigger fairy tales...
December 21st, 2009 at 9:47 AM ^
Notre Dame's arrogance makes me sick. I would love to see conferences switch schedules to play as many as ten games in conference and then have non-conference play similar to the Big Ten-ACC shootout. The 12th game would be with whomever you decide to play. You would have 7 home games.
That might leave ND high and dry and force them to play even more games against lousy teams than they do now.
I don't get it. They have become an average program, make less money than do Big Ten schools and throw it in your face. Someone please explain this to me.
Must be faith?
December 21st, 2009 at 9:59 AM ^
So you want to change around the big ten, to 10 in conference games, to hurt ND. You realize the first team MSU, UM, and Purdue are going to call to fill one of their 2 open slots is ND right?
December 21st, 2009 at 12:09 PM ^
I find that most teams formulate their out of conference schedules upon rankings, thus diluting the quality of games in general. Would I rather see Michigan play a conference team in place of Delaware State? Absolutely. In fact, I would like to see Michigan play two more conference games. Others may disagree, but I prefer good quality football. I also appreciate that all conferences would have to do similar scheduling or it would put us, or any "major" conference who chose to play more in-conference games at a disadvantage. We live with a broken ranking system which rewards wins over mediocre programs.
I have nothing against ND as an academic institution. Indeed, I would welcome them to our conference although they don't quite fit the mold as a research institution. Never-the-less, ND academics is outstanding, and I believe it is essential that the Big Ten recognizes academic excellence when they select another school to join our ranks. That is why Pitt would be my first choice should ND not relinquish their independence.
Having said that, my loyalty is to the University of Michigan first and the Big Ten Conference second. Michigan has provided several generations of my family with fantastic college experiences and the tools to have wonderful lives. If ND is no longer on our schedule, I believe there are more than a few programs who would welcome the opportunity to play Michigan.
ND snubbed the Big Ten in 1999 and again last week. I assume you to be an ND grad, and you may have a vastly different understanding of why you would rather play Navy in most years than OSU or PSU. Tradition? I think not.
I do respect your posts on this board and value your input. But when ND spits in my face, I frankly could care less what happens to them. If what I perceive as arrogance eventually hurts their ability to play the three Big Ten games they currently play, would you expect sympathy?
December 21st, 2009 at 1:52 PM ^
I have enjoyed your point of view as well. But what drives scheduling is money, and UM knows that when ND comes to town not only will the stadium be packed but so will those luxury boxes. ND was the 3rd highest attended game this year at UM stadium, (OSU 110,922, PSU 110,377, ND 110,278) and that is over 4,000 more people than DSU.
This is why ND plays navy and it is why they will always play navy, its more than tradition
http://www.blueandgold.com/content/?aid=7063
As a private institution, Notre Dame might have had to close its doors during the war without sufficient capital, but the United States Navy came to the rescue by making the Notre Dame campus one of the sites of its V-12 officers’ training program. On July 1, 1943 at Notre Dame, the largest V-12 program in the United States was launched with 1,851 Navy trainees.Honestly you shouldn't feel that ND is spitting in your face by not joining the big ten. If anything, they're spitting in the faces of the other 8 teams in the big ten, because ND won't schedule them, well at least not regularly.
December 21st, 2009 at 9:48 AM ^
He sounds like Notre Dame took away his lollypop. Its good to hear that someone is keeping Torch & Pitchfork ltd. in business with such a downturn in the country.
Comments are pretty funny, toilet doyle lol
December 21st, 2009 at 10:57 AM ^
You don't agree with anything that was said it the article? So many feasible assertions and you only reaction is "lollypop" (sic)? You don't agree that joining the BT would have been financially sound? You don't see the hypocrisy in calling "independence" a pillar of the school? You don't see the vast wasteland that is ND football since 1999? You are in denial. ND is history. Its future is perpetual mediocrity.
December 21st, 2009 at 11:09 AM ^
Short answer, No
Long answer, No I don't
December 21st, 2009 at 11:17 AM ^
Do you also believe in Santa? The Easter bunny? Are you also one of those that believe that the shooter was on the grassy knoll? That the first landing on the moon was actually staged in Hollywood? Do you think that the universe is less than 6000 years old? How about "intelligent design?" Do you think that dinosaurs were on Noah's Ark?
December 21st, 2009 at 2:55 PM ^
I have no problem with you taking out your frustrations on ND, even if they are a little misplaced, but I DO have a problem with you coming on here and bad mouthing Santa Claus at Christmas time no less!
Leave Old Chris Cringle out if buddy! I don't care much about the Easter Bunny or Tooth Fairy, they were never all that good to me, but leave Santa alone!
December 21st, 2009 at 11:54 AM ^
Notre Dame can still attract good talent. Most of Weis' classes were highly rated. His downfall was developing that talent and developing a good defense (among other things). With the right coach, they can become relevant again.
I have no idea if Kelly is that coach, though. Except for Lou Holtz, the Irish have not done a good job of hiring football coaches over the last 30 years. Weis and Davies should have been coordinators, Faust was clearly in over his head, and I don't know what Willingham's problem was.
Look at Southern Cal in the nineties. They had a couple of good years and a lot of mediocrity--much like Notre Dame after Holtz (and in Holtz's last couple of years). Pete Carroll comes in and they start challenging for the Pac ten and national titles on a nearly annual basis.
December 21st, 2009 at 12:20 PM ^
perpetual is a long time. we'll have to wait and see. would you buy 10 more years of mediocrity?
December 21st, 2009 at 9:59 AM ^
who the hell wants 25% of our conference to be made up of teams from Indiana? that's not exactly the recipe for long term ftball success.
December 21st, 2009 at 10:31 AM ^
And Domers hate it. How much further do they need to far into irrelevancy until the Administration recognizes it? I'd guess they already do, but they've sold their souls to the boosters.
December 21st, 2009 at 10:54 AM ^
Yeah that irrelevancy sure hurts, ND has only one headline on espn right now, only 3 ND threads active on mgoblog, only mentioned in every bowl game played thus far, sure have fallen far.
That "irrelevancy" is more relevant than at least half of the big ten right now.
December 21st, 2009 at 11:31 AM ^
You could not be more right, Notre Dame is more relvant than Indiana, Purdue, Minnesota and the rest of the Big Ten. But do you want this relevancy?
December 21st, 2009 at 11:36 AM ^
now that is a good question
December 21st, 2009 at 11:38 AM ^
So, having people talk about ND is more important than actually accomplishing something?
December 21st, 2009 at 11:46 AM ^
no not at all
but until you have to put an "OT:" at the beginning of a ND thread, it won't make any sense to call ND irrelevant.
December 21st, 2009 at 12:00 PM ^
You're taking a broad definition of what being relevant means here. Notre Dame hasn't contended for a National Championship for coming up on 20 years; It hasn't even been close. We'll see how quickly Kelly can get them there. But, as far as contending for a NC goes, ND has been as relevant as Purdue, Indiana, Minnesota, and Michigan State over the last 15 years. But, hey, at least people still talk about 'em.
December 21st, 2009 at 3:00 PM ^
There are like 3 times as many threads on Pitt here. Does that = Pitt > ND in importance nationally?
December 21st, 2009 at 10:45 AM ^
join the B10 and lose a lot of their ability to schedule national games would they cease to be ND from a recruiting standpoint, and instead just become another B10 team in an unattractive midwestern city?
I imagine that a lot of the reason ND has the ability to pull in such good recruiting classes despite poor teams, poor location, poor coaching, etc. is that kids everywhere grow up watching them, both on TV and in person. Using the last few year's schedules as reference points...
Kids in the NE and east coast, check (game with BC, UConn, Navy, etc.). Kids in the midwest, check (games with UM, MSU, Purdue, Pitt). Kids in the west, check (USC, Stanford, Washington). Kids down south, check (North Carolina, Duke, Georgia Tech).
By joining the B10 ND would be forfeiting the ability to put together a national schedule, which would severely impact their long-term recruiting ability.
December 21st, 2009 at 11:15 AM ^
Say, I get where you might think that--but Notre Dame has been mediocre for a long time--something isn't right.
How has being in the Big Ten hurt Michigan, Penn State, Ohio State, or even Illinois' ability to recruit nationally? Notre Dame is gonna have pull no matter what.
And they'll always play USC, and probably a BC or service academy no matter what.
I realize they might not have the "back yard" to recruit from that stabilizes a few Big Ten teams, but if they are IN the Big Ten, they sure would be able to go into Big Ten states and tell them boys "NOW your parents, friend, and family will be able to come watch you play all the time."
If ND buys into your theory, then they are sissies and we don't need 'em.
I'm actually getting to believe this ND thing is a formality (I really dont think a lot of BIg Ten teams would like this), and one more rejection will be all it takes for the Big Ten to finally decide to "give up" wink wink and go in another direction.
December 21st, 2009 at 10:46 AM ^
I always thought ND would make more $$$ in the B10 but I never realized it would amount to almost twice as much. As for Lou Holtz many an Irish fan will tell you he was run out becuase ND did not want him getting the all time win record over Knute Rockne. i predict most ND fans will act like Irish and address anything but the facts of the article.
December 21st, 2009 at 11:05 AM ^
facts?, its an opinion piece (of crap). How would addressing anything he is so blindly angry over change any opinions. Like that great author said "you can't fix stupid", :), and that column is full of it.
December 21st, 2009 at 12:26 PM ^
I don't know about the article, because I haven't read it yet.
But you are showing Michigan fans the mirror here. Funny, whenever a piece comes out criticizing Michigan, the board erupts in a feeding frenzy of "DAT guy is a muddafrickin IDIOT!"..."What level of douchebaggery have we now sunken to"..."Dis is da prawblem wit our entiah media. No wondah newspapahs is goin broke!"..."If I ever see that guy I'm going to stick a tire iron up his azz"..."How DARE he! Doesn't he see that Rich Rodriguez is building a future so bright we need sunglasses?!"..."If I have to read drivel like this again, I just may start killing small animals and eating them raw"
So Doyel writes what appears to be a scathing rip on the Irish and of course, he is now (to UM fans) the lovechild of Grantland Rice and Mark Twain.
Funny to watch your reaction, and my fellow Michigan Men's reactions to your reaction.
EDIT:
Well Irish, I read the article. Wow. It's not funny at all--but daym is he dead on.
"Catholic. Private. Independent."--But a member of the Big East (for the most part). OOPS! AND don't foget the CCHA.
Double the money? A CATHOLIC turning down a 100% increase in payola? Did their AD go to ND for business school? HAHALOLZ.
December 21st, 2009 at 1:11 PM ^
DAT guy is a muddafrickin IDIOT!"..."What level of douchebaggery have we now sunken to"..."Dis is da prawblem wit our entiah media. No wondah newspapahs is goin broke!"..."If I ever see that guy I'm going to stick a tire iron up his azz"..."How DARE he! Doesn't he see that Rich Rodriguez is building a future so bright we need sunglasses?!"..."If I have to read drivel like this again, I just may start killing small animals and eating them raw.But if it's a rival, we go into our little schadenfreude-glee.
December 21st, 2009 at 12:44 PM ^
Doyel doesn't do a lot to support is assertions with facts. Sure, the NBC payout isn't as much as the Big 10's payout, but he ignores their Big East TV deal. He notes that ND's BCS payout has decreased to $4.5 million, but he fails to note that they get this every year, regardless of whether they play in the BCS.
There's other, more subtle money makers that he ignores, as well. Does traveling across the country/being on national TV each week increase donations? As part of their apparel contracts, do they get a premium because their sponsors can accompany their home games with prominent tv ads (who could forget their adidas and champion commercials)? Because their home game is guaranteed to be on national TV can they get home games without having to pay a crappy school to visit them? It's not that hard to quickly make up the money difference, if you know where to look.
I bet they could make more money in the Big 10, especially with 12 teams, but I doubt it's as much more money as Doyel implies.
Also, the Lou Holtz claim has a very tenuous relationship with the facts.
This is a poorly written article, although with some fun pokes at an enemey. This isn't too much different than the garbage written by Rosenberg and co.
December 21st, 2009 at 2:12 PM ^
I thought the contract called for ND to get $1 million on years they didn't make the BCS. You say it's 4.5?
How th heck does Notre Dame get the other schools in the country to agree to this, get them to schedule the Irish--wow wow wow.
It doesn't make sense. Maybe Notre Dame hangs the possibility of great sex with every conference and holds them all hostage.
And all for nothing but a peek at their panties.
December 21st, 2009 at 4:41 PM ^
By golly that was a wonderful peice