Bulletin Board Material From Doug Gottlieb in December
Was watching the Colorado St. vs. St. Mary's (which CSU won at home 74-58) game to check out Thursdays opponent (full game here) and about the 38:20 mark they were talking about how Colorado St. at 8-0 wasn't ranked and Gottlieb said:
"I don't understand why they're not ranked"
Jeff Goodman: "Cuz the voters don't watch them"
Gottlieb: "Like Michigan was ranked coming into this week. Michigan shouldn't be ranked. This team is better than Michigan."
For context, Michigan began the week of 12/4/21 4-2 with close loss to Seton and blowout loss to Arizona (a team we didn't yet think was a top 2 team). Michigan then got blown out the Wednesday of that week by UNC and would drop out of the rankings so hard to argue with him at the time, but I thought it was funny that the announcers of a random December game were comparing teams that would get matched up in March.
Initial thoughts:
- They shot 9/16 from three in this game and started . They started the season number 1 in 3 pt % through like 10 games including an absurd 20/34 against Creighton. They have cooled off significantly to fall to 69th in the country at a modest 35.7%, going only 32.9% in conference play.
- Based on the podcast I was bit worried about matchups and who Hunter would guard. Dishon Thomas is their starting big and while he's shooting 39% on the season, he's only 31% in conference so he was part of the hot start. He's low volume so I don't think he's a bad matchup for Hunter per se. He didn't appear to be a dynamic rim runner in this one, so Hunter should be able to drop his coverage / soft hedge on pick and roll with most of his attention on the ball handler.
- Roddy gets attention because he's such an unusual player (6-5 brick of a linebacker) but Isaiah Stevens is arugably the better player, at least he was in the first half. As mentioned on the pod, Stevens is a turnaround pull up guy and he hit three 16 footers in a row in the first half of this one. But he's also fast and gets downhill and will be a handful for Eli and Michigan's help defense. Luckily he's not tall but he has ups on his jumper so he'll get looks.
- St. Mary's didn't score well but they were just coming off a Hawaii tournament and appeared sloppy with unforced turnovers and then just missed a loft of open shots. As mentioned on the pod, there will be plenty of open threes.
It's March!
After reading the bulletin board...
"Bulletin board material" = Gottlieb voicing an opinion literally 100 days ago during a game airing on Stadium TV that almost nobody is watching (this game being on CFB Championship Saturday), and his opinion aligning with what actually happened in the AP poll released 2 days later (CSU being ranked ahead of Michigan, 26th vs 35th).
FWIW - St. Mary's also didn't play in a Hawaii tournament this year. They played in a tournament originally scheduled for Hawaii that got moved to Las Vegas due to COVID. But even that tournament finished 10 days prior to the CSU game. St. Mary's wasn't exactly experiencing a ton of jet lag here: they were exclusively in the PT before being 1-hour ahead on MT Dec 2-4.
Let's be fair, CSU's 16-point win over St. Mary's - that's a good win. Period.
I think U-M will beat CSU .... but just saying, come on a bit.
FWIW, CSU enjoys a pretty good home court advantage - Fort Collins is ~5000' elevation. St. Mary's is in Moraga, CA - roughly 600' above sea level (in the Bay area just outside of Oakland ).
If you haven't experienced exercise at elevations > 5k, even walking up 2 flights of stairs will affect the normal human by not only being winded, but feeling light-headed and your heart pounding.
Not trying to diminish CSU, just adding another factor that may have been at play. The Rams have fielded good basketball programs for several years, the Larry Eustachy years in particular (though he was quite the hot-head idiot). Tim Miles (aka Nebrasketball) & Stew Morrill both had good runs as well.
March 14th, 2022 at 10:19 PM ^
But isn’t CSU’s elevation difference (I used to live in Denver so I get that it matters) a PERMANENT advantage, regardless of where a game is played? Eg it doesn’t hold only in Fort Collins?
I thought that was the idea behind elite athletes training at elevation (our Olympic committee has a training site in Colorado Springs), and why Northern Arizona is a perennial NCAA power in cross-country and track. If you train at altitude - you not only are ar an advantage when others come play at your elevation, you also have an advantage when you go down closer to sea level.
FWIW, SMC played at Utah State two days prior to playing in Fort Collins - Logan is at 4.5K itself. Some time for partial acclimation.
March 15th, 2022 at 11:06 AM ^
This is purely anecdotal, but I think the advantage of an acclimated CSU basketball player (or any athlete) playing at elevation exceeds the advantage of returning to compete against sea-levelers at sea level.
Sea-levelers to elevation puts them at significant disadvantage.
Elevationers to sea level gives them a slight advantage.
Again, anecdotal, but my experience living at elevation.
The elevation doesn’t work for MLB pitchers; the ball does spin or move as much as lower elevations due to the “lighter air”. That said, I’ve heard that training at higher elevations helps build up lung capacity.
March 14th, 2022 at 11:01 PM ^
It was tongue in cheek to call it bulletin board material. Thought this made it obvious: "hard to argue with him at the time, but I thought it was funny that the announcers of a random December game were comparing teams that would get matched up in March."
My bad regarding the Hawaii comment. The announcers were talking about the Maui invitational, and something about turning around in two days to play this game and praised Bennett for a tough schedule but I must have missed that the turnaround was that they played as Utah State just two days before this road game in Fort Collins.
Intention was not to take anything away from this win. It was a great win no doubt. Just like Michigan over Purdue. But there was some "luck" involved in both cases, IMO. Both things can be true: the opponent can play somewhat poorly independent of you, and your win can be impressive.
I think this team is going to have Michigan's full attention. I only wish Hunter Dickinson had really, really wanted to be recruited by CSU, but they didn't think he was worthy. That's worked well for Maryland games.
Doug G. has always hated Michigan for some reason. Always talking bad about Michigan. He is a douchebag anyways and thinks he knows everything about basketball. Even though he played college ball he isn't really smart about basketball. IMO he is very dumb considering he played at OSU and in the Big 12. He should have way more knowledge and know the game so much better. He may know more about the Xs and Os but I can know more about everything else than him. I say that not because I think I am a basketball know it all but because how poorly he is at his job. To be honest I thought he got fired again from his job. I would rather listen to Bill Walton then him and I mute it if Walton is on the broadcast.
Also he was kicked out of Notre Dame for stealing a teammates credit card and has had issues with many in the basketball world where he isn't well liked. Like I said he is a douchebag.
Gottlieb may not be a great analyst and he has been multiple places (ESPN -> CBS -> Fox) but I'm near certain no move has been because he's been fired.
Also, a +1 for making the edit to include the words "credit card." The dude is now 45 and that still gets brought up literally 25 years later. Who cares anymore? He screwed up, but it wasn't exactly murder or sex abuse.
My college roommate stole $200 and season football tickets from me 20+ years ago. It was a huge deal then, but he admitted it, I've forgiven him, I keep in touch with him. Gotta move on at some point.
March 15th, 2022 at 10:16 AM ^
To be honest I never even knew about the CC thing until I looked on his Wikipedia page it is one of his first highlights of his career. Lol. The guy is just a weasel and he was let go fired whatever you want to call it from ESPN. They fired or let go many people over time. I could care less what he said about Michigan he had made it known throughout his career he doesn't like them for some reason. He did have a good two years at OSU. But other than that for a guy with this much experience in basketball his knowledge is very lacking. Other than that I know people make mistakes and I just thought it was funny that one of his main highlights on that page is him stealing a CC and getting kicked out of Notre Dame or maybe that is how he started to become well known. Either way it is funny. But for something like that for a regular person that could haunt us from getting jobs in our careers. He has done alright though so that is why it is funny. Now if it held him back from making a living it would be a different story.
March 15th, 2022 at 11:05 AM ^
Gottlieb had some success at talk radio, but he's never been valuable or insightful. He used to brag on ESPN that it was easier to troll Michigan than any other fanbase, so there's that. I would actively avoid him if he was in a relevant position to provide content. Luckily, Gottlieb is basically invisible, so it's not really a problem.
March 15th, 2022 at 12:11 PM ^
Congrats on your ability to forgive. I should follow your lead here.
Doesn't "Bulletin Board Material" imply that someone affiliated with the opponent has been talking trash? I don't see how a national broadcaster voicing an opinion qualifies.
I don’t think there are hard and fast rules about that. Whatever works to motivate you.
Michael Jordan would invent insults in his own mind and use them to fire himself up.
My bulletin board...
March 14th, 2022 at 10:55 PM ^
Absolutely not. To snarling wolverines point, you'll take the disrespect from anywhere. That's why vegas lines are often "bulletin board material" which CSU will no doubt be using for motivation this week.
But like I said above, it was mostly a joke. No one cares about or even knows about a comment made by Doug Gottlieb in December. That said, if the video guys come across it, they'll probably bring it up during film review that the announcer said "this team is better than Michigan." That's a dis no way around it.
You ever follow the 2010s Seahawks? Dudes won multiple Super Bowls and still Carrol used entirely fabricated "disrespect" to motivate the team. And it worked too. Or closer to home, MSU's disrespek. So, no, that's not the only way for bulletin board material to work. I think it's pretty well known teams will use media slights as motivation...
March 15th, 2022 at 11:20 AM ^
Sparty has gotten a lot of mileage out of ‘Disrespect’ in the last 15 years. As Alex Drain pointed out, an essential part of winning close sporting concepts is maintaining a higher level of energy when it counts. Does bulletin board yip-yap make a difference? Probably not as much as how the coach manages the enthusiasm of the team. BTW, Gottlieb is an overbearing lickspittle to whatever get him attention. I got no use for him.
March 14th, 2022 at 10:20 PM ^
Gottlieb should be on the banned list.
March 14th, 2022 at 10:33 PM ^
We shouldn’t have banned lists
March 15th, 2022 at 10:08 AM ^
We should ban banning.
ban the discussion of banning vs non-banning. i'd also ban steve bannon, just for good measure.
March 14th, 2022 at 10:50 PM ^
We need a team focused on 40 minutes on Thursday - we had IU not only down and out but probably playing in the NIT, until the meltdown.
I think we play well both Thursday and Saturday vs Tenn (I'm assuming we win vs CSU). Whether we beat UT or not, I don't think we get a 20 point beatdown
March 15th, 2022 at 12:00 AM ^
Has this site collectively started doing meth? The reporter paranoia is getting out of hand.
I know I have 🙋♂️
I mean, he was right. We were stinking it up and they were 8-0. What do you expect him to say?
"so hard to argue with him at the time, but I thought it was funny that the announcers of a random December game were comparing teams that would get matched up in March."
Did you not even make it halfway through the post?
i know i didn’t. i’ll be fine.
Yes, and I said "hard to argue at the time".
But at no point in this season would CSU have ever been favored over Michigan on a neutral court (at full strength - covid absences notwithstanding). Playing poorly in a game or two and being a worse team are two different things entirely.
Just pointing out that for him to say "this team is better than Michigan" is a dis to Michigan and it's coaches and players. There isn't a single one of them that wouldn't then or now, have the reaction of "oh I'll show you" which is the definition of bulletin board material.
Bulletin board material is by definition motivating, it doesn't have to be false per se.
juwan: “look at this disrespect!”
players: “what did they say!”
juwan: “that colorado state should be more highly ranked!”
players: “well, they ARE more highly…uh…wait, who said that, again?”
juwan: “doug gottlieb, in december.”
players: “who? what? zzzzzz.”
You missed it. That's not the inflammatory statement.
He said "this team is better than Michigan..." straight up.
Not, this team is playing better than Michigan. Simply that this team is better than Michigan. You've never played sports if you don't see how that's motivating. Obviously they don't care (or even know) and my comment was tongue in cheek but you missed the dis.
speaking of "missing it," i'd like to introduce you to the concept of a "joke." my comment wasn't intended to be an actual transcript or anything. obvs.
as i said earlier, i didn't read the entire original post. i didn't explain why, but just so we're clear, i didn't finish it because i fell asleep halfway through (please note: this is also a "joke.").
my point, and the point of most of the comments here, was that, one can call doug "why am i employed" gottlieb's comments from december many things. "bulletin board material" is not one of them. neither is "inflammatory."
Thanks for posting.
Well at least UofM will have a reason to want to win an NCAA tournament game now, so that's a relief.
March 15th, 2022 at 10:44 AM ^
If Eli has to guard Roddy Michigan is in trouble. Moussa will start on him imo. Zone will definitely get mixed in
Eli won't guard Roddy. He's effectively a power forward. Eli will on Stevens and Roddy will be checked by Moussa initially, but also Johns, probably Twill at times, and Even Hunter at times. He posts up a lot, similar to Liddell.
March 15th, 2022 at 10:58 AM ^
I find it ironic that he led Notre Dame in steals before his roommate incident...
Jokes aside. I listen to him everyday on my way home from work. I find his show/style refreshing after the drivel that ESPN has pumped out since they moved Scott Van Pelt to late night Sportscenter.
The man constantly ruminates about how his early failures and mistakes have shaped him as a man, as well as a father. Can't we all say the same?
I've done way worse than what this man has. I'm a bad ass father of triplets, and I'm doing better financially than most of my peers in high school/college. I attribute this to my many mistakes.... and my wife.
Everyone here sure makes these talking heads out to be Pontius Pilate anytime anyone says anything bad about the Maize and Blue.
I get that this is a Michigan Blog, BUT "Glass houses, man".
March 15th, 2022 at 11:29 AM ^
Ha. Gotlieb is a shock jock and extremely annoying. His daddy bailed him out of his issues. I don’t buy how he is a better man because of it. I could care less he belittles Michigan because once again he is trolling a huge fan base to get his brand up.
March 15th, 2022 at 12:55 PM ^
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, including Gottlieb. He showed his true colors when he chose to rip Zack Novack for enthusiastically celebrating winning a share of the Big Ten regular-season title in 2012. We had a favorable schedule that year, but ripping college athletes who work hard and exceed all expectations is sad.
Gottlieb is a tool.