Bracket based on US News College Ranking

Submitted by michclub19 on

SB Nation shows what will happen if you pick your bracket strictly on school rankings from US News.  Unsurprisingly, Harvard is your champion.  Unfortunately, Michigan still bows out to Duke in the Sweet Sixteen.  Probably as good a method as any for some of the toss ups in the first round.

http://www.sbnation.com/college-basketball/2014/3/17/5516814/ncaa-bracket-projections-picks-college-rankings

Interesting tidbits: Two 1 seeds fall in first round.  No B1G teams make the Elite Eight.  Surprised by OSU > Syracuse and Manhattan > Louisville.

Leaders And Best

March 17th, 2014 at 4:54 PM ^

Creighton is ranked the #1 school in the Regional Universities Midwest category (schools that issue few graduate degrees). Creighton is not included in the National University category (the rankings most people reference). It's like comparing apples and oranges especially without a true score that can compare between the rankings. In most cases, most logical individuals would usually expect the National Universities to be better especially at the top of the rankings.

Gustavo Fring

March 17th, 2014 at 10:48 PM ^

Embry Riddle is a solid school, particularly for aviation.  It is specialized.

For aerospace engineering, however, I don't think most people would put it over Michigan, MIT, or Stanford to say the least.  And yes in aerospace engineering Michigan does deserve to be mentioned in the same breath as those other two schools.

M-Dog

March 17th, 2014 at 11:13 PM ^

They need to make pretty huge strides.  When I lived in Ohio in the 90's, they had open admission for Ohio residents.  If you lived in Ohio and you breathed . . . you were in.  

Yes you could find some reasonably good programs/classes if you looked hard enough.  But you really had to look.  Place was a zoo.

 

 

chatster

March 18th, 2014 at 11:40 AM ^

The U. S. News and World Report rankings have Ohio State at 52 and Syracuse at 62.  The QS World University rankings put Ohio State at 113. Ohio State’s undergraduate business school is ranked among the nation’s top 15 programs. Its law school (31st in U. S. News and World Report) and graduate business school (27th in U. News and World Report) are ranked way ahead of Syracuse (107th in Law; 79th in graduate business.)  Unlike Ohio State, Syracuse does not have a medical school, although the SUNY-Upstate Medical Center is based in Syracuse.

The QS World University rankings put Syracuse in the 601-650 range with schools like Loyola of Chicago (last in the Missouri Valley conference this season, so not playing in any post-season tournaments), Oklahoma State (also in the NCAA field this year), SUNY-Albany (also in the NCAA field this year) and the University of Tehran (still on probation, so not eligible for the NCAA tournament.)

Syracuse gets a lot of national publicity for its men’s basketball team and Carmelo Anthony and Michael Carter-Williams in the NBA, but it stakes its academic reputation mainly on just two of its schools – the S. I. Newhouse School of Public Communications and the Maxwell School of Public Affairs.

Syracuse’s Newhouse School has provided the world with dozens of well known sports broadcasters like Ann Arbor resident Mike Tirico, Bob Costas, Marv Albert, Dick Stockton, Sean McDonough and Dave Pasch, among many others. Its Maxwell graduate school is ranked among the top five in the country with schools like Harvard, Princeton and NYU and was ranked first in the 2012 U. S. News and World Report rankings (where Indiana was second.)

Syracuse also has one of the top ranked undergraduate information systems program in the country and strong undergraduate programs in industrial design, architecture and entrepreneurship. But, compared to Ohio State, its overall academic reputation is not that strong and it has been slipping a bit in recent years, while Ohio State's academic reputation has been rising.

Leaders And Best

March 17th, 2014 at 4:44 PM ^

You cannot compare the regional universities (Creighton) to the national universities just based on rank. You would need an actual score that would be able to compare across rankings. This is just dumb and basic statistics.

It would be equivalent to someone saying the best team in Division II is better than the #25 team in Division I.

Yeoman

March 17th, 2014 at 5:00 PM ^

I guess I'm objecting to your D1/D2 comparison, which seems to imply that there's some way to do this (D1 and D2 teams actually meet on the court, after all) and national universities are clearly superior.

It's even clearer to me when you look at the "liberal arts colleges" list. What would you do with Davidson if they were in the tournament?

Leaders And Best

March 17th, 2014 at 5:23 PM ^

I was not referring to the Liberal Arts University rankings. But I don't think my comparison was too far off for the Regional Universities.

If I were to try to make a comparison between all the universities in a quick and dirty way, I would probably use a combination of acceptance rate and average SAT/ACT score/or percentile. Obviously there are problems with that method, but at least it makes some logical sense.

MI Expat NY

March 17th, 2014 at 5:27 PM ^

If you really did that, I think you would be surprised what you see, especially for some of the better Regional universities.  I don't know for sure, because I refuse to rewared US News financially for their stupid rankings, so I don't have quick access to all the data, but I bet the top couple Regional Universities in each region would be comparable to the middle of the Big Ten according to your standards.  

Regional Universities aren't simply lesser schools than so-called National Universities, they are in a different category because they don't offer the same sort of doctorate programs.  They have different missions.  Some are better than others.  None are at the level of the Ivy's, but there are some excellent institutions none-the-less.  

Leaders And Best

March 17th, 2014 at 5:54 PM ^

Creighton's acceptance rate is 78%. Michigan State's (one of the worst academic schools in the Big Ten) acceptance rate is 70%.

Are you confusing the Regional Universities with the Liberal Arts university rankings? I can see your point with the Liberal Arts universities but not with the Regional Universities. The Regional Univesities offer a full range of undergrad programs like the National Universites but lack graduate studies. The undergrad missions of these schools are similar to the National Universities. Please make a case for one of these regional universities making the top 50 National universities.

MI Expat NY

March 17th, 2014 at 5:58 PM ^

That's one statistic, and not a particularly insiteful one.  I took two seconds to look up middle 50% ACT composite scores for Creighton is 24-30, MSU is 23-38.  Creighton similarly does better in GPA.  Villanova, another "Regional University" only accepts 45.6% and their ACT middle 50 is 30-33.  How do those numbers compare to National Universities?

Leaders And Best

March 17th, 2014 at 6:09 PM ^

The acceptance rate statistic actually skews in favor of small universities like the ones on the Regional list. Big Ten schools like Michigan State have enormous undergrad student bodies so they actually have to have high acceptance rate to fill their schools. Many of these regional universities have small student bodies so their acceptance rates should not be expected to be as high to fill their classes.

Those numbers still do not get into the top 50 most likely. And your standard should not be Michigan State. I used Michigan State as an example to show how low you are going.

 

MI Expat NY

March 17th, 2014 at 6:21 PM ^

Yeshiva is a small, top-50 university with an acceptance rate above 80%.  I say again that acceptance rate is not particularly insiteful.  There could be a myriad of reasons for why a university's rate is high or low.  For instance, some state schools have low to no admission fees, and because they're less expensive than private or out of state schools, they get lots of applicants that have little hope of getting in.  

I think you should refrain from making generalities about Regional Universities when you so clearly have little idea about the huge differences within the classification.  Some are more akin to private liberal arts colleges, others are practically regional within their own state.  

And again, what about Villanova?  Their admitted student stats compare favorably to Wisconsin.  

Leaders And Best

March 17th, 2014 at 7:28 PM ^

I think Yeshiva is a bit of an outlier in the top 50 and also near the bottom so not a real strong way to prove your point. I think most people when making a list of Top 50 would not include Yeshiva, but it makes the USNews list because of quirks in their rating system. I never said any of these rankings or stats were perfect, and in my original post, I said with the disclaimer that there are problems with it. But it is a much better way to approach it than the author did which was my original point.

I completely disagree with your take on acceptance rates though. Large state schools tend to have higher acceptance rates because of their large student bodies. They have to accept more students to fill their classes, and many students who are considering out of state or private schools often use the state school as their alternate option if not admitted or unable to pay private/out of state tuition. They may get a lot of in state applicants who aren't qualified, but I think that is a measure of how selective the state school is. Compare Michigan or Virginia's acceptance rate to Michigan State or Virginia Tech. But I think it is a red flag if you have a small private university and a high acceptance rate. I don't see how you could make a case for why an elite private school would have a high acceptance rate. The admission fees make a difference and is a way to skew acceptance rates, but most applicants apply to schools they would consider attending. Maybe they don't have much chance of getting in, but doesn't that say something about the quality/attractiveness of the university? I don't think students are going to apply to lower tier public schools just because they have low admission fees. It still usually costs something to apply to a school, and that is something many students consider when selecting a list of universities to apply to.

Gustavo Fring

March 17th, 2014 at 10:56 PM ^

Selectivity does not ALWAYS equate to acceptance rate.  This is why schools publish 25th-75th percentile ranges for SAT.

If you want to look beyond Michigan, look at the University of Chicago.  At least when I was applying (things may have changed), Chicago often had an acceptance rate of over 40% (its peers in terms of size and prestige mostly had acceptance rates at or below 20%).  Yet its SAT ranges were elite, and nobody would say it was not as hard to get into as most of the Ivy League. 

Big public schools face a similar problem.  However, if you look at the SAT ranges for Berkeley, Michigan, or UCLA, they will give you a much better idea of how difficult it is to get in than the acceptance rate

MI Expat NY

March 17th, 2014 at 5:05 PM ^

If you accept that the US News and World Report rankings that they are discussing is largely, if not entirely, about undergraduate education, then I don't think you can accept that "National Universities" are DI, "Regional Universities" are DII, and presumably "liberal arts colleges" (or whatever US News calls them) are DIII.  There are many, many schools that aren't national universities that provide a better undergraduate education than many national universities.  

I agree that you can't really compare a big public national university to a smaller private school, but I'd say that the insistence on ranking institutions in what US News determines are sufficiently similar groupings is equally silly.  

bronxblue

March 17th, 2014 at 4:42 PM ^

Yeah, I guess this is a fun little game for someone, but all proves is that the USNWR rankings are even more worthless than they are as a barometer of a "good" school.

Leaders And Best

March 17th, 2014 at 4:49 PM ^

Providence is ranked in the Regional Universites category. Comparing Regional Universities rankings to the National Universities rankings would be like comparing Division II basketball to Division I. Rarely would anyone ever claim that the best team in Division II is better than the #25 team in Division I. But this SBNation author is not too bright so there you go.

panthers5

March 17th, 2014 at 5:05 PM ^

This is comical.

Let's lay a couple things to rest. Ohio state, especially from a professional school standpoint, is better than Syracuse. Their business, med, and law, the big three, are all ranked higher.

Secondly, unc is one of the top public schools in e country, usually a spot behind Michigan. Comical who they lost to.

Creighton? They are a bett school than Wisconsin? In what? Wisconsin actually has mor fortune 500 ceo's than any public in the tournament. Look it up.

Michigan v duke is a wash. Duke is a great school, so is Michigan, but duke gets the nod based on being a private and mor selective. My wife went to law school there, and I went to um, so they are both highly respected.

Creighton over duke? Now that is the biggest joke of all. Duke is a top 10 law, med, and business. Creighton is none of these.

MGoBender

March 17th, 2014 at 10:51 PM ^

Michigan v duke is a wash. Duke is a great school, so is Michigan, but duke gets the nod based on being a private and mor selective. My wife went to law school there, and I went to um, so they are both highly respected.

I lol'd.  Not saying your wrong, but the "non-chalantness" of your reasoing made me chuckle.

FreeKarl

March 17th, 2014 at 5:06 PM ^

The author of this article completely screwed this up. If it was based on the rankings he would simply apply to more widely used national criteria to the regional schools. Even a "top" ranked regional school would struggle to make the top 75. Creighton accepts 80 percent of its students and as a 25 percentile ACT score of 24. It isn't some academic powerhouse. 

LSAClassOf2000

March 17th, 2014 at 5:08 PM ^

In conjunction with a paper I found and posted this morning about historic probabilities of various seeds getting to the Final Four by seed, the combination of a 10, 12 and two 3s probably would happen once or twice before the sun becomes a red giant and makes Duke a non-factor in future brackets. 

mgobluee

March 17th, 2014 at 8:47 PM ^

The fact that Michigan didn't blow Harvard out of the water in the national championships is an attestment to how poor US World and News rankings are.

Just saying.

michelin

March 17th, 2014 at 10:12 PM ^

Since the participants are supposed to be "student athletes", I calculated a composite rank, which includes not only the AP rank (among top 20) but the US News Rank, which I term SOS: the Strength Of School.  Based on the combined rank of the selected teams, Duke plays NC  and Michigan plays Virginia in the "final four."  Wisc is the only other B1G team to make it into the elite eight.  

 

Here are the elite eight schools based on a combined AP and Academic Rk (SOS)*



School        AP Rk       SOS*           Avg Rk

1. Duke              8             7              7.5

2. Virginia          3           23              13

3. Michigan       7           28              17.5

4. NC              19           30              24.5.

5. Florida          1           49              25

6. Wisconsin    12         41              26.5

7. Connecticut  18         57             37.5

8. Syracuse      14         62             38





*Academic rank of USNews Universities.  Note that the order is essentially the same, when I normalize the SOS to the same scale as the AP (only Fla and Wisc switch places)  Note also that I do not include schools that fail to rank in the top 100 universities or in the consensus top 20 BB teams (ie for both AP and USA today polls).  The latter cutoff eliminated Harvard.  Both academics and AP together eliminated Ohio and MSU from the elite eight