Big Ten 2023 football schedule is still TDB - ADs still in discussion on next years schedule and beyond
Overall nice article from The Athletic - $PAYWALLED$ - by Scott Dochterman. It has a BIG TEN west flavor in it as he is a sports writer covering Iowa for the Athletic.
However, he does have some nice content (and 1 big omission)
Bullets -
> BIG TEN still in deliberations on how to schedule the football season for '23 as well as '24 and beyond when our new friends USC and UCLA join
> Warren and the ADs have 2 overriding considerations (in no particular order)
1 - Setting a schedule that optimizes getting teams into the expanded CFP playoffs (and CFP home games)
2 - Protecting rivalries (how many protected games?)
> For '23 they are considering doing away with divisions
> PSU's AD wants to do away with divisions because he is tired of finishing 3rd in the East yet finished 4 times (2016-2019) in the Top 12 of the CFP rankings
> Iowa's AD wants to protect as many rivalries yet understands the need for CFP flavored scheduling
> 2 main proposals (for now) for scheduling '24 and beyond
1 - 2 protected games (rivals) and rotating the other 11 teams. His math states that we would see the other 11 teams 7 times over a 11 year cycle
2 - 3 protected games (rivals) and rotating the other 10 teams. Here he has the math messed up but we would see the other 10 teams more often, in theory.
> Last point, Scott listed his proposed 3 "rival" games, this is where is BIG TEN West viewpoint came in as he had Michigan's rivals as OSU - DUH, MSU - man what a tag along, and............... Rutgers (DOH!). His entire article talks about preserving trophy games including several of the BIG TEN west games, but no mention of the Little Brown Jug or any acknowledgement of the Michigan v Minnesota game. FYI he put Nebraska as Minnesota's 3rd rival LOL...
My question to the Board, which schedule model do you prefer? 2 protected games? or 3 protected games? and which teams would you like to see protected?
I lean towards 3 protected games and they would be OSU, Minnesota, and Sparty (I guess we would have to keep them in there)
October 14th, 2022 at 9:20 AM ^
I think Sam Webb said they're looking at a plan to make schedules right before in order to maximize the best (or at least biggest draw) teams to play each other each year. Basically, I think UM (and also OSU should do this as well) should fight against any type of alignment and schedule that makes UM and OSU play each year, but other contenders, like PSU, then do not have to play those teams. This happened in the legends and leaders debacle where Brandon let UM get locked into playing the single best team in the conference every single year while the rest of the division did not. I mean, UM was in general not good, but that set MSU up for a good run with divisional alignment. I want UM to play OSU each year, so UM and OSU have to be in the same division but then there are NO protected crossovers. If you want to play UM each year, be in the same division. The other answer is that all teams just into rotation with nothing protected. PSU wants out of the current situation since they don't have any DEEP rivalriesand the ones they do are against lesser programs. So locking them into playing a program underneath you and not an equal is a win for them. Don't let them have it. I don't see a way without divisions that lets UM have it's closest rivals, yet then doesn't have those rivals basically have an easier schedule every year than UM.
As a personal note, if UM doesn't get to play at Maryland every other year, I will be very disappointed. It's one of the few times I get to easily go to a UM game these days.
October 14th, 2022 at 10:07 AM ^
What I want, is a Big 10 conference with 10 teams, and nine conference games where you play every team every year.
Also, get off my lawn while I yell at these clouds.
October 14th, 2022 at 10:23 AM ^
You're neighbor called, he wants his DeSoto back...
October 14th, 2022 at 10:28 AM ^
Is his neighbor named "Doug?"
October 14th, 2022 at 10:46 AM ^
he better turn that weed whacker off or, or, well, you know.
October 14th, 2022 at 1:29 PM ^
And if you went to the Rose Bowl last year, you can't go this year again even if you qualified
October 14th, 2022 at 1:29 PM ^
And if you went to the Rose Bowl last year, you can't go this year again even if you qualified
October 14th, 2022 at 1:35 PM ^
This a 1000X. Best we can hope for is 20 teams and get back to doing that with two divisions that really act like conferences. Play for all the marbles at the rose bowl. Too bad we got Rutgers no way to gloss over that trash.
October 14th, 2022 at 10:44 AM ^
As a DC resident, full support on keeping Maryland on the schedule every year.
It’s so nice to take a $25/20 minute Uber up to watch the team every other year. There are a ton of us here and we show up in significantly greater numbers in College Park than the NYC alums do to Piscataway.
October 14th, 2022 at 9:29 AM ^
My favorite passage from Endzone was when Dave Brandon walked into the ADs conference for the first time, said something like "I'm the new guy, I'm here to listen today."
Proceeded to do absolutely no listening, started proposing batshit crazy scheduling schemes, and all the other ADs realized that this guy was an idiot who could be fleeced.
That worked out great for us, thanks Dave.
[I felt a lot of sympathy. There's a particular type of businessperson who walks into a room, "listens" for like 15 seconds, and immediately starts spouting off unworkable pipe dream ideas.]
October 14th, 2022 at 9:41 AM ^
Brandon was the antithesis of what an AD should be.
IMO, the objective of an AD is to maximize the quality of the experience for students and fans. It should NOT be about maximizing revenue / income.
I remember dynamic ticket pricing, crazy seating schemes for students, and the list goes on.
One could easily argue that Hackett was a "businessperson". His approach was quite a bit different than Brandon's, and IMO reflected intelligent leadership while understanding what the constituents associated with Michigan athletics required. Those constituents included the student athletes, students, fans, and boosters.
I hope that Warde possesses the prescience to maintain a great direction for Michigan Athletics.
October 14th, 2022 at 2:22 PM ^
Hackett was a real businessman.
Brandon is a CEO type that parachutes into a company, does some fluff to artificially raise the stock price, then bails out, always leaving things worse than when he started.
As someone else mentioned, everyone else with a brain quickly figures out he's a moron that can be fleeced.
October 14th, 2022 at 10:50 AM ^
The Brandon stunt reminds me of meeting invites where someone says they want to have an "open and honest conversation about [issue]." The "issue" is usually something they want to ram down your throat and the "conversation" involves listening to them with limited ability to reply.
October 14th, 2022 at 12:25 PM ^
This guy gets management
October 14th, 2022 at 12:45 PM ^
I think we work together
October 14th, 2022 at 12:56 PM ^
Sounds like some of the managers at my company. Open and honest conversation about returning to the office, every employee says we can get just as much if not more work done at home. Decision: come back to the office. Thanks for listening!
October 14th, 2022 at 9:34 AM ^
I hope there is a bit of foresight with this decision. Specifically, with the frequency of how often "non protected rivalry" teams play each other.
The B1G will be at 14 teams for "how long" with these suggested options? I believe the B1G will welcome UCLA and USC in 2024. Which means - the B1G won't be a 14 team conference, it will be a 16 team conference.
One goal of scheduling - in any format - should be that every B1G team play "home and home" at least once against every of the other 15 teams during a given four year period. Students and fans shouldn't be forgotten - and, I believe students should see every team in the conference play at Michigan Stadium at least once during their years in Ann Arbor.
I would be fine with two protected rivalries - which would be the Bucks and MSU. Back in my day, there were "red letter games" - and, those two teams were always circled.
Go Blue!
October 14th, 2022 at 9:40 AM ^
I like your idea except the OSU/MSU protected rivalries. I can get on board with an OSU protected rivalry, but fuck MSU. Unless they also want to have a protected rivalry with OSU, then they can get in line to play UM like everyone else. UM's main concern should be to not let the main rivals in the region from a recruiting advantage get a scheduling advantage over UM. So locking PSU and MSU into easier schedules than UM each year should absolutely be avoided. Can't let them get easier wins finish higher in standings with more regularity. The current way is good for UM and OSU, bad for MSU and PSU. Which is why they want out. Don't let them have it.
October 14th, 2022 at 9:59 AM ^
The low key Penn State whining is pretty funny. Speaks to the way that program was built on playing overmatched opponents in the 60s, 70s, and 80s.
October 14th, 2022 at 1:00 PM ^
If getting to the CFP is a prime goal I want our protected games to be Indiana and Rutgers. (Northwestern, if there's a 3rd one. )
/s (sort of)
October 14th, 2022 at 9:35 AM ^
Minnesota has never been a protected rivalry. Sucks about the jug, but it’s not 1910 anymore.
October 14th, 2022 at 9:37 AM ^
One protected game, rotate the rest.
October 14th, 2022 at 9:37 AM ^
I'll go ahead and plug a non-paywalled article that attempts to handle scheduling discrepancies (it was written before the 16-team conference was a thing, but it has SP+ numbers to back it up). You either need to protect rivalries (but who do you pair up with the 2 LA teams every year?) or just blow it all up and make fresh schedules each year. Personally, I'm in favor of the pods.
https://www.bannersociety.com/2019/8/15/20734585/college-football-divisions-pod-system
October 14th, 2022 at 9:43 AM ^
That's a decent idea. It gets MSU and PSU locked together and PSU locked with OSU which is good.
October 14th, 2022 at 11:06 AM ^
Pods are easy once USC and UCLA join. Keep long time rivals together and the quadrilateral of hate. Same state teams together and then easier travel via Chicago for the LA teams.
Michigan MSU OSU Rutgers
Iowa Minnesota Wisconsin Nebraska
Indiana Purdue Penn State Maryland
USC UCLA Illinois Northwestern
You could reverse Maryland and Rutgers, but I wouldn't. We need one weak sister and Maryland has too much potential.
October 14th, 2022 at 11:21 AM ^
This is mostly fine, but you can't put Penn State in that pod. They would be the happiest people in the world with this setup. The closest team in talent would be Maryland, so they're basically looking at 3-0 in their pod every single year. The fairest thing to do is keep OSU/Penn State/Michigan together so the top contenders are guaranteed to play every year, and one of the top contenders can't weasel into the championship because their pod sucks.
October 14th, 2022 at 1:15 PM ^
With 4 pods we should have B1G semifinal and final championship games. Geographically, the pods could look like:
Rut., Md, PSU, OSU
Michigan, MSU, Purdue, Indiana
Illinois, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Minnesota,
USC, UCLA, Nebraska, Iowa.
Have 1 protected game outside the pod, e.g. M-OSU, MSU-PSU, Iowa- Wisconsin, etc. This also protects many natural rivalries within the pods.
October 14th, 2022 at 11:39 AM ^
It would be easier for Minnesota to travel to the LA schools. A direct flight from Minneapolis to LA is much better than a trip from Champaign to Chicago to LA.
Plus, Minnesota and LA have history. Winner gets the Lakers.
I would also pair up Nebraska with the LA schools. Play enough late night games and maybe we can forget they ever joined the conference.
I prefer geographic pods. That means RU, Md, PSU and OSU are together. We get MSU, IU and PU. If folks complain our pod is too week, tell them that’s what they get for adding MSU to the conference against Michigan’s wishes.
October 14th, 2022 at 11:46 AM ^
ST3 - you raise an interesting point, and in my mind, results in a question for the Illinois travel scenario.
Rantoul AFB is about a 20 minute drive from Champaign. Can private aviation have any use of that facility, even on a restricted / limited basis.
The key is to have a runway large enough to accommodate the type of aircraft needed.
For instance, I believe that Michigan's basketball team flies out of Willow Run, not Metro - and, not Ann Arbor. I don't know which airport Michigan's football team flies out of? It might be Willow Run - since it's private aviation.
As for the conference structure in the years to come, it's anyone's guess...
October 14th, 2022 at 12:09 PM ^
I went to a wedding in Champaign 23 years ago. I traveled from LA. It was not convenient. I have flown from LAX to Minneapolis a few times. I would much rather make that trip.
I suspect the LA schools are going to find that traveling to Minnesota and Northwestern aren’t that much worse (and could be better) than going to Washington State and the Oregon schools. But that’s offset by having to go to Rutgers and Penn State. Those trips are going to be awful.
October 14th, 2022 at 1:04 PM ^
You aren't wrong about Champaign. But they are in the middle of nowhere, so travel isn't going to be great for anyone. I realize the teams travel by charter, and I'd be shocked if there wasn't something a lot closer than Midway/Ohare. But the FANS still have to travel commercial.
You aren't splitting Minnesota from the Quadrilateral of Hate. Those teams out there need something given they will probably never win the Big 10.
I don't think the Penn State pod is as bad as thought. Illinois and (Edit, Illinois isn't here, my bad) Maryland both have potential. Maybe putting them in a pod like this gives them that chance. Indiana and Purdue do at least give people problems here and there.
Remember, these are just 3 games, there are still 6 more to parcel out. Assuming that isn't done stupidly, being in a winnable pod isn't game breaking. I'd rather the rivalries be preserved as best they can over a little imbalance. The Big 10 championship still goes through OSU/Michigan, and this way they can never play back to back.
October 14th, 2022 at 1:27 PM ^
I'm pretty sure Rantoul has been decommissioned (my Dad served there way back in the day, before I ever came onto the scene).
CMI (Champaign's airport) has an 8100 foot runway. The B1G teams use it all the time for their charters. Plenty of length for a bigger plane - even one leaving for LA that would be heavier on takeoff.
Penn State, for tomorrow's game, arrived into YIP on a Boeing 737 charter - FWIW.
October 14th, 2022 at 2:49 PM ^
Nittany Fan,
Thanks for that. A friend of mine served at Rantoul in the late 80's, IIRC.
As others have pointed out, the real challenge is longer hauls for fans. And, in that case, there are a number of B1G schools that can "more easily" account for that travel. The exceptions, as some have noted, include - Penn State, Illinois, Iowa, and possibly MSU. Those schools do require a bit of a drive from a major airport.
Since I assume you'll be rooting for the Blue and White, enjoy the game. One of us will be a bit happier on late Saturday afternoon.
October 14th, 2022 at 3:15 PM ^
As I think about it, I wonder how Michigan travelled for their 1993 & 1995 visits to Penn State. State College's airport wasn't expanded to accommodate jets until spring 1997. Michigan would have either (1) taken a group of smaller turboprops, (2) bussed all the way there, or (3) jetted into Harrisburg and then still have to bus 85 miles.
(1995 game was a few days after a record-setting snowstorm too)
PSU themselves were frequently bussing/flying from Harrisburg in their pre-B1G days.
Anyway, the B1G teams themselves - their travel is easy these days. USC & UCLA will non-stop charter for all their road games, no matter where they are (one exception, a B737 to LAX off of State College's now-6700 foot runway would require a quick fuel stop in ~ 2-5% of weather conditions).
Fans are less in luck - but USC & UCLA (no other school, for that matter) isn't often putting fans first these days.
Enjoy the game tomorrow. :-)
October 14th, 2022 at 3:41 PM ^
Pods?
OSU, PSU, Maryland, Rutgers
UM, MSU, Indiana, Purdue
Illinois, Northwestern, Wisconsin, Minnesota
Iowa, Nebraska, USC, UCLA
October 14th, 2022 at 9:39 AM ^
This may be a hot take, but I don't feel the need to play MSU every year. Yes, we probably should, but if we didn't I certainly wouldn't care. OSU for sure. I would like Minnesota as a protected game as well.
Ed: Maybe we could do a guarantee like Michigan/MSU would always play twice (home and home) in 4 years so every 4 year player plays in both stadiums.
October 14th, 2022 at 9:42 AM ^
<insertwhenwillthenbenowsoon.gif>
October 14th, 2022 at 9:44 AM ^
If the Big Ten wants to hand UM a protected game every year that's a near certain win, the AD should take the offer and run.
October 14th, 2022 at 9:46 AM ^
I like 3 protected games, but you have to make the protected games as equal as possible too. So while UM should get Minnesota as our 3rd, I think it makes more sense for it to be NW instead with the new rivalry trophy.
October 14th, 2022 at 9:48 AM ^
If doing three protected rivalries, I like OSU, Minn, NW for UM. I feel no strong need to play MSU every year and I'm more concerned with UM finishing the season with the highest chance of winning the conference.
October 14th, 2022 at 9:54 AM ^
I basically agree, but that game's getting protected for sure. It means too much within the state.
October 14th, 2022 at 10:02 AM ^
I mean you're probably right, but why give them what they want? I mean I'm sure UM could kill it if they wanted to make that a battle.
October 14th, 2022 at 10:12 AM ^
If there are 3 protected games and the third is Rutger, it seems basically like a wash. OSU and PSU are actually getting harder schedules than UM in this proposal (OSU has protected games with UM/PSU/Maryland and PSU has OSU/USC/Rutger). Despite the last frustrating decade, MSU is going to e an easier game than either PSU or USC over time.
October 14th, 2022 at 10:18 AM ^
Honestly, I guess I don't care too much about OSU and their schedule. They are such a blue blood with so much money and so well run right now it doesn't matter what their schedule is. I would be more concerned about equal or lesser programs gaining an advantage on UM. So keeping MSU down and PSU down in the region is more important than giving OSU an easier schedule. Fight a battle on one front, not multiple fronts. It would be better for UM/OSU to have a Big 2 little 8 type thing going on in the mid-west.
October 14th, 2022 at 1:31 PM ^
I would personally favor MN as well, since I live in the state and that would let me to go a Michigan game every two years somewhat locally.
But I think a program like Rutgers has merit to it. Obviously in the interest of Rutgers and the conference, but Michigan likes the ability to sell recruits from that region on being able to play near home (granted, our presence there is lower than it was five years ago) and having a locked-in matchup with a poor program is a competitive benefit, especially since we're paired with OSU already.
Trophy games are cool but there are enough of those that you just aren't going to get matched pairings of all the trophies.
October 14th, 2022 at 9:48 AM ^
FWIW, this delay has to be causing scheduling headaches for institutional events across the Big Ten, as university associated events on weekends (conferences, etc.) are scheduled for away football weekends due to hotel and facilities availability.
October 14th, 2022 at 11:49 AM ^
Needs,
Exactly. I'm trying to plan some larger groups and tailgates for next year (2023), and have a very limited idea of what games will really be worthwhile.
My guess regarding hotels is - the athletic department has already reserved certain hotel(s) for the traveling teams.
October 14th, 2022 at 1:29 PM ^
I'm more talking about university events (conferences and symposia held in departments or at the League or Union) that are planned to take place on non-football weekends. Most of these kinds of events are ideally planned more than a year in advance but require the hotel availability (and prices) that aren't possible on a football weekend.
October 14th, 2022 at 2:53 PM ^
Needs,
Very fair point. And, as an alum (who is a season ticket holder and stays at a hotel on game weekends), fan, and parent of current students - I know exactly what you're referring to.
The B1G conference needs to get its act together here. We've known about USC and UCLA for months, and they don't join the conference until 2024.
There's no excuse for the 2023 schedule to not be available.
Also, the academic strengths - and symposia / conferences you refer to are really what makes the University what it is. Those are essential to Michigan's standing and global reputation. So, I place great value in them occurring and being able to plan for them.
Go Blue!
October 14th, 2022 at 10:03 AM ^
The problem with protected rivalries is that U of M would have the disadvantage of their #1 rival being the #1 team in the B10 and a top 3 team almost every year. This is a huge disadvantage and it's not easy to fix or account within a conference.
Odds are close to 100% that Michigan will get F@#%*# in whatever new schedule is created.
This year if one of the few years I can remember Michigan having a favorable schedule.