Ben VanSumeran moving to LB
I believe this update is a couple weeks old but I wanted to start a discussion regarding where he would fit in our current LB scheme. Also would he still fit if Michigan moves to a 3-3-5 as our current recruiting strategy is trending? I remember that Iowa also viewed him as a LB recruit before we swooped in and stole him from them.
It's getting late early...
Yeah, unfortunately he isn’t quite equipped for many roles in our offense or defense. Not sure he’s fast enough to play our LB roles, but maybe he had a spot in a specialist package or something
April 18th, 2020 at 10:19 AM ^
After watching his HS film I thought he looked like a great fit for H-back. I'm no expert, though.
April 18th, 2020 at 12:21 PM ^
When you look at who the defense is recruiting now, I’m not sure how you can think he’s not good enough to do something somewhere.
Harbaugh seems to gravitate towards players that are high character, play hard, good (not elite or great athletes) and hope they end up finding a position. Unfortunately, that isn't a way to build a great team.
VanSumeran was recruited to play FB when the offense used them.
He's looking for a new place for him now, because of the change in offense.
The Noah Furbush role.
That's what I predict too. Closest thing to a FB on defense.
You think there's a chance he could play both ways possibly? Gattis did say he has good speed once he's in the open field.
April 18th, 2020 at 10:10 AM ^
Kid is a very good athlete. He will contribute on either side of the ball. Good speed and catches the ball well. Brings the pain on defense. Lots of versatility really thought of him as a comparison to Ben Gideon. I thought this was a great signing when they got him.
April 18th, 2020 at 12:56 PM ^
He definitely has a lot of positives as an athlete, but it’s so difficult to be optimistic about mid career position changes. It either means, 1.) You aren’t very good at your current position, or 2.) We are in desperate need of a body at another position. I don’t recall the last time this worked out extremely well but I’m no historian.
Anyone have some examples of mid career position changes that resulted in a definite upgrade for the team (UofM only)? Also, I’m talking offense to defense, and such, not CB to safety, etc.
Chase Winovich is the exception. Never assume someone to be the exception. Almost nobody is the exception. That is why they are labeled "the exception".
April 19th, 2020 at 10:34 AM ^
Correct!!!! Too may times on this this forum people point to the one or two exceptions. If that's the case lets only consider 5'8" RBs because Barry Sanders, or draft a QB in the 6th round because Tom Brady.
Also, Chase was a defensive player originally. We moved him to TE and it didn’t work and he returned to D and played at an all-American level. So it depends on how you’re looking at the O to D switch as well. Technically he made that switch, but it was a return to his natural side of the ball after a failed switch.
I would imagine he would be a SAM in the Noah Furbush mold, basically a FB on defense who opens gaps for other LBs blitzes.
I think he could be a good blitzer himself. He had one of the best verticals in his class which is usually a good indicator of burst.
You never know how these moves will work. Ben Mason and Chase Winovich give us good examples of failures and successes in recent history.
April 18th, 2020 at 10:11 AM ^
IDK how good Ben is (for a P5 program), but that dude is yoked. The strength coach in me always roots for the jacked dudes. Good luck to him at this new position.
April 18th, 2020 at 11:40 AM ^
Honestly I’d welcome a more sound defensive system in the traditional mold such as the one employed by Iowa. The current system is predicated on pressure and works when the free man gets home before the ball comes out or forces a quick decision. It doesn’t seem to work when the opposition has the athletes to make up for that half second.
April 18th, 2020 at 12:28 PM ^
I’m not sure how unsound it is schematically, but the recruiting is pretty problematic. Not due to stars, but due to a lack of at least decent options at every spot on the field.
I think they are recruiting athletic guys on the edge and the secondary. Linebackers have speed and will learn multiple as Brown moves to multiple. My fear is defensive line where honestly we have under recruited and Under developed. Larry Johnson has been killing us and having Mattison can only help. Lack of an interior line has truly hurt us since Hurst left and it is quite candidly the biggest reason we aren’t competitive against OSU.
The DT recruiting has been a mystery in the near past and it led to needing to have a converted fullback on the interior DL.
Harbaugh knows a shit ton more about football than me, but even I know that you’re never going to compete with top teams when you’re forced to do shit like that. Any hardworking generic 3 star DT is going to be a million times better than Mason. Just recruit them!
All things being equal if Mason had come into the program And began prepping as a DT and lifted/eaten like a DT I think he would have done fine in his 3 rd year. Thing is you took a guy playing fullback one year taking handoffs and working as the I back in some instances and less than 8 months later wanted him to anchor against Big 10 lineman.
Transfer portal hasnt been friendly in that regard either. A DT rotation of Kemp and Solomon as starters with Dwumfour and Jeter as primary backups as Mazi and Hinton get their feet under them would have been the ideal. Solomon transfers, Jeter disappears and Dwumfour battles injuries all year and we were left with little in terms of viable options.
I think there are some problems schematic problems such as leaving guys like Brandon Watson to cover the slot in press coverage or asking guys like McCray to cover Barkely in coverage, especially when there are guys on the bench like Thomas & Bush that are much faster, although I don't blame Brown because it worked in the past. His system held PSU & OSU in check quite well in previous years. But, the past two years for OSU and 2017 for PSU it's been torched by better passing QBs and/or elite RBs.
I don't think we've had the depth on the d-line the last two years. Part of that is attrition. Solomon, Vilain, Irving-Bey, Malone-Hatcher, & Jeter are 5 players from the 2017 class that were 4-stars or higher that have either transferred, been injured, are not at UM any longer, or who have yet to contribute much. There's probably no single reason why that class did not live up to it's #5 national ranking, but needless to say that has hurt UM's defense the past 1-2 years. It seems like we always have one hole, except in 2016 where our hole was on offense. Sometimes it's d-line depth. Sometimes is the d-tackles. Sometimes it's the safeties. Sometimes it's the 3rd DB. But, the past two years we just have not been talented and deep enough to play with teams like OSU.
I totally agree with the you. It seems like it’s always something. No OTs. No DTs. Mediocre Offense. Mediocre defense.
it’s never just solid across all three units.
Thing is against lesser athletic teams Mcray would hang on long enough for the blitz to force a sack or an incompletion, not against better athletes. I’d say go ahead and run that and have a separate gameplan/scheme against The elite but that’s asking college guys with limited practice to deviate from what they’ve learnt all year. My original suggestion is to start with a scheme more technically sound and for god sakes try making a substitution once in a while. As it stands there isn’t the level of athlete like Devin bush, Rashan, Jabril, or even Chase on the defense except for maybe Hutch and probably Dax. Time will tell but the idea that Brown was adding some things to his defense that he hasn’t done in the past coverage wise is evidentiary in my opinion that they know something’s a bit broke. I’m thinking Shoop is here to address this in some capacity he runs a lot of zone coverages in his past stops as a DC.
April 19th, 2020 at 10:15 AM ^
As it stands there isn’t the level of athlete like Devin bush, Rashan, Jabril, or even Chase on the defense except for maybe Hutch and probably Dax.
I agree with a lot of what you said, but I do think we have athletes. In addition to Hutch & Dax there is also McGrone, Thomas, Hinton, & Mazi Smith. I also think Vilain if healthy is another one. And, some of the younger guys if/when they develop like Ojabo, Quinten Johnson, McGregor, Morant, Harrell, etc. are all plus P5 athletes.
Your getting negged because people don’t like it when you hold a mirror up to them. However he may be fast but I think it’s more about his change of direction ability, for a linebacker that’s way more important than straight line speed.
Exactly. I was thinking he could be an edge rusher type in the mold of Uche or Winovich although I do think he can be a good FB on offense also.
It's been over 3 hours since your comment and not a single person has mentioned that he's limited athletically and is a typical lunch pail guy because he is white. To the contrary, I see multiple comments so far talking up his athleticism.
It's pretty clear that you imagined what you wanted to read so you can do you can post your predetermined bitching about it. Typical childish internet behavior. Grow up.
I’ve seen it mentioned in the past the term stiff, when discussing why he wasn’t playing linebacker. Don’t ask me for a specific date time and post because I don’t keep track of those things so I can throw around my internet superiority. So while it might not be mentioned in this chain it has in the past. Playing ILB in Iowa’s 3-4 is different than playing it in Michigan’s Multiple. Different set of skills athletically.
He doesn't have to hang on to the ball as a LB so that's a positive.
He will bounce around between positions for 4 years and hopefully make a contribution on special teams. Was never worth a scholarship but he has one. At one point last fall we were all fed the BS he would be able to play rb and get carries
Why any kid would want to play for this fan base is beyond me. You are wrong If you don't think this kind of crap affects recruiting.
It 100% doesn’t and would you like to know how I know? I’m around it. High school Kids don’t give a flying fuck what a fan base says. They care about getting to the league and winning! Don’t let Isiah Hole gas you up.
Still wrong and I don't give a flying fuck how you think you know.
I still don't understand why this kid couldn't have been a good tight end. He came in at around 240, he's about the correct height. If he's so strong and fast it seems like he should be able to handle the blocking aspect, so it would follow that he is maybe not great at running routes or catching the ball, but I wish there were more actual insight. Seems weird though.
He could have been “hammering panda” v2.0.
April 19th, 2020 at 12:01 PM ^
Why not DT? It worked out so well last time.