B10 Reportedly requests 4 auto-bids in new 14 playoff
SEC does the same. Other leagues call this “egregious”:
February 28th, 2024 at 11:43 PM ^
This is weird to me. It should be a meritocracy, not a Pettiti and Sankey $ power play. In no other NCAA sport does any conference get multiple guaranteed bids outside of winning a conference championship. Just because we bring the money doesn’t mean our 4th best team should be guaranteed a spot over a superior team from a conference with less resources.
February 28th, 2024 at 11:51 PM ^
I disagree and I hope they flex their power. Do I think this is necessarily “right”, no, but it would be nice to be on the good side of the power struggle with a football governing body for once.
Also, is it “right” the Rutgers and Indianas of the world get to suck the cash elite teams generate? This is just the reality and while we have the leverage it’s best to use it.
February 28th, 2024 at 11:55 PM ^
Serious question ...... what "power struggles" has the B1G lost over the years as regards football governance (or any other sport, for that manner)?
It seems to me like the B1G has been flexing its power for decades. If anything, the B1G may simply become a bigger bully.
February 29th, 2024 at 12:06 AM ^
I would hardly call what the Big Ten has allowed the NCAA to do and even what they did themselves as flexing their power in a way that benefits Michigan. I guess I should have said flexing their power in a way that would be advantageous to Michigan’s interests.
February 29th, 2024 at 9:30 AM ^
The B1G stood idle while the SEC and ACC changed rules regarding how high school players can be coached through camps and clinics.
The B1G has stood idle while SEC and ACC teams manipulated football schedules to play less conference games overall and cupcakes in late November before the final weekend.
The B1G has stood idle while the SEC manipulated rankings and playoff consideration by aggressively marketing their teams through media outlets. (The SEC has ESPN in its back pocket in ways that the B1G has never tried to do with Fox...)
As much as we didn't like him, Delaney was a far better Commish than his successor clowns have been. And even he didn't care about the B1G winning most (or any) of these 'battles' so long as it kept it's seat at the table.
February 29th, 2024 at 11:12 AM ^
This 100%. Also, the B1G stood idle when it came to demanding home play-off games, at least until this latest expansion.
February 29th, 2024 at 11:44 AM ^
There were never any proposals to have home playoff games while also having a 4-team playoff.
So I'm not sure what this particular complaint is about. For the first time ever we are going to have a playoff with more than 4 teams. And it's going to come with home playoff games, just as the B1G wanted.
That seems like a 100% success rate on that particular issue?
February 29th, 2024 at 3:17 PM ^
The complaint centers on the fact that the SEC and ACC teams never play north of the Mason Dixon line -- ever. You can count on your fingers the number of times any Southern based football power has ever played outside its region even during warmer months in the fall.
This obviously includes bowl games which, of course, were launched with the Rose Bowl and with their growth have been mostly staged in Sunbelt states primarily aimed at promoting regional tourism.
Even with conference realignment and expansion, schools have made it a point not to play games outside their regional footprint. Yet B1G teams have always played in the South. Non power 5 teams have been willing to travel for big game checks but not SEC or ACC teams.
February 29th, 2024 at 11:42 AM ^
#1 ..... maybe (going back to 2016, satelitte camps were banned in April but the ban was rescined in June, partially because of B1G lobbying). But the other items you list and blaming the B1G for that is, frankly, nonsense.
The Big Ten can decide to play eight (or six, or ten, or whatever number) of conference games at any time they please. Why should the NCAA be regulating stuff like that? The B1G plays nine conference games because of, well, money. The SEC plays eight conference games because of, well, money --- and also the fact that more of their schools have "must-play" OOC games against in-state rivals (more than the B1G does). The ACC plays eight conference games because of, well, money, and also their own in-state OOC games and the fact that they have ND locked into 5-6 OOC games per year.
As regards portions the media being SEC shills ---- well, the SEC was 10-2 in CFP semifinal games over the course of the 10-year playoff. The B1G was 3-6. The other conferences were rather similar. The SEC simply was, for most of that decade, the best conference in the country, rather easily.
B1G folk don't necessarily like to hear this, but the media wasn't wrong and there's really one way to change that narrative. It's not through having loud and vocal commissioner, it's not through building your own set of media shills. It's through building a conference that consistently, year-in and year-out, is at the top of the heap.
February 29th, 2024 at 1:17 PM ^
You're putting a lot of weight on "rescinded"... The rules governing camps now (setup by SEC/ACC request) effectively ended what Michigan was doing just as effectively as a ban on them would have.
As for scheduling, you agree that the B1G has stood by idly as the SEC schedules for its benefit? So, essentially, the B1G is not 'flexing its muscle' schedule-wise to better compete with the SEC/ACC.
I never said the SEC wasn't a better conference. I merely said that the B1G is not leveraging its relationship with Fox like the SEC is with ESPN.
You should actually read what people write and stop reacting to whatever you want them to have written.
February 29th, 2024 at 2:00 PM ^
I read what you wrote.
You wrote the SEC has had a hand in "manipulat(ing) ratings." I think that's nonsense. They've been rated higher because they've been better.
As regards "the B1G is not leveraging its relationship with Fox like the SEC is with ESPN." --- well, if you want FOX to employ a bunch of non-objective shills at the B1G's behest, fair enough. I don't want that from my talking heads.
February 29th, 2024 at 8:36 PM ^
But yet, the B1G Ten makes the most money. The B1G Ten is on 3 TV Networks
February 29th, 2024 at 2:14 AM ^
Counterpoint: is it "right" that the Rutgers and Indianas of the world have to compete in a rags versus riches environment where the deck is massively stacked against them even with even revenue distribution?
Just imagine being in a foot race that typically takes six minutes or so and two or three of your opponents get a 2.5-minute head start. That's about how it feels to be Rutgers or Indiana in the B1G.
College football has never been anywhere close to a level playing field, and pretending that every program is playing with the same level is resources is just silly. CFB is essentially like if the NFL had no salary cap and five times the amount of teams. A select few are going to absolutely bully the rest of the group.
February 29th, 2024 at 9:24 AM ^
I don't think Gers or IU are really complaining. They get their money every year whether they win or lose.
February 29th, 2024 at 6:19 AM ^
This is such a short-sided argument.
You'll be complaining like the rest of us if #14 B1G school that is 5th doesn't make the CFP, but #25 Auburn does just because they're the 4th auto qualifier from the SEC.
You'll be crying SEC bias and there won't be any mention of being in the right side of a power struggle.
In a 14 or 16-team playoff, you're going to end up with mainly B1G and SEC teams. Why do we need autobids beyond the conference champion?
If anything, give the regular season champion an autobid and the conference championship game winner an autobid and if that is the same team, #2 gets the autobid.
This makes sense since you can easily need tiebreakers to crown a regular season champ (because everyone can't play everyone else). Tiebreaker can be head-to-head, record versus similar opponents, record versus #3, #4, #5, etc. and if all of that aligns...CFP ranking.
Anyone in a tiebreaker situation is getting an at-large anyway, so it's kind of a moot point.
5 autobids, 9 or 11 at-large bids...go play football.
Top seeds host the Sweet 16 and Elite 8, then off to neutral sites.
Oh, and the 5 autobids aren't #1 - #5...just put them in the CFP rankings with everyone else. They're just guaranteed a spot, not a seed.
I don't care if the 5th autobid is Liberty and they're #18, so they get bumped up to the #16 seed and they have to go on the road to face the #1 team in the country.
Just like you don't give a shit that #16 conference champion Hampton has to play #1 UConn at the Barclay's Center.
February 29th, 2024 at 12:18 PM ^
While I understand a lot of this sentiment, I think there's at least something to be said for taking more bids out of the hands of a committee. Who says that #14 B1G school is #14, and that Auburn is #25? A bunch of fat cats? Automatic qualifiers at least means your spot is earned by how many games you've won and lost.
February 29th, 2024 at 8:19 AM ^
man i couldn't give the slightest shit about that, we just went 15-0, three wins in a row over ohio. i wouldn't even be mad if they just banned us from the playoffs. i dont let the mickey mouse company control my feelings about football.
February 29th, 2024 at 9:00 AM ^
"it would be nice to be on the good side of the power struggle with a. . . governing body for once"
Truth (no, cross that out), justice (no, cross that out), and the American Way of Life (registered trademark), amirite?
Feels gd 2 crush people, and we're going in.
Signed, Gunga Din
February 29th, 2024 at 9:11 AM ^
Did I miss a remake where Gunga Din, humble water carrier, becomes Conan and grooves on enemy crushing and lamenting ladies?
February 28th, 2024 at 11:55 PM ^
It doesn’t happen in the NFL, MLB, NHL, or NBA. Unless you want to count each league, conference, division, etc getting the same number of teams into the playoffs as guaranteed bids.
The closest scenario I can think of is European soccer with qualifying for the UEFA Champions Cup. The English Premier league, Spanish Laliga, and Italian Series A get 4 teams in while other country’s top league only get three, two, or one team in.
February 29th, 2024 at 12:11 AM ^
What do all those leagues have in common? They are professional leagues with limited numbers of teams. If there was something similar to those models teams like Northwestern, Indiana etc., at least for football would be in the equivalent of a minor league.
February 29th, 2024 at 7:18 AM ^
Except it’s not a fixed number in perpetuity in the UCL. It changes based on the relative strength of each league based on the prior 5 seasons of performance. This proposal for a guaranteed 4 teams for the B1G & SEC each season for perpetuity regardless of performance is insanity.
February 29th, 2024 at 7:56 AM ^
I think the Champions League is the apt comparison. You have a massive tournament of members of disparate leagues competing to be crowned "champion" in a tournament that may or may not succeed at identifying the "best" team. Champions League recognizes that the stronger the league, the more teams in that league would be capable of winning the tournament. Thus the higher number of guaranteed entries. The Big Ten/SEC are asking for the same approach.
You could probably note some differences that counter this narrative, namely that Champions League is based on the results of the previous season where teams potentially have changed drastically before the resultant tournament. You could argue that when deciding entrants for a tournament happening during the same season, one can adequately judge the most deserving teams without having to give auto-bids.
February 29th, 2024 at 9:56 AM ^
European soccer and NCAA have a lot of similar structures. Dozens of leagues/conferences. A handful of super major ones (EPL, LaLiga, etc.) / (SEC, B1G, etc.). Some mid-major leagues (Eredivisie, Superliga, etc.), and lots of minnows. The mid-majors have some teams that, some years or even most years, are somewhat competitive with ones with teams in top leagues (e.g., Porto/Sporting, Ajax, Galatasaray) (similar to Gonzaga in hoops or, a few years ago, Boise St. in football).
This analogy works far better in basketball, however, which isn't surprising--number of players are smaller and the number of games a year is larger (both like soccer), hence the distribution of talent and results is more spread out.
So based on this analogy, the lesson of the UCL is: The super major leagues will always dominate the playoffs. Only rarely will a not-usually-great team even make it very far (Roma, Tottenham recently) or a mid-major make it far (Ajax a few years ago). It'll be won by the super duper programs (City until they get hammered for FFP violations, LFC, Bayern, Real/Barca, Juve/Inter/Milan). (Arsenal cannot ever win it b/c Arsenal.)
February 29th, 2024 at 8:03 AM ^
You’re suggesting college football shouldn’t be about the money? We jumped that ship 40 years ago.
February 29th, 2024 at 9:07 AM ^
I dunno what the right number is, but given the make up these two leagues currently, with big behemoths throwing haymakers at each other all season, it does seem like it would be worth making some kind of concession to these two leagues. Look at PSU, who has one of the better records over the last few years and is stronger statistically than many team who made the playoffs in some cases in recent years. But they play with two of the toughest teams in the country in their half of the B1G. Now add in USC/Oregon/Washington to the picture. PSU may still be far superior to an undefeated ACC team, but be excluded. Win your games and all that but now that we're talking about a College Football Playoff Tournament, you have to give some additional weight there.
February 29th, 2024 at 9:23 AM ^
It is a power play apparently
Too lazy to look up the last several final CFP rankings, seems a stretch that four SEC/BIG teams were in the top 14 at the same time.
If it works out that way, so be it.
8 out of 14 teams every time is not the intention of the expanded field.
February 29th, 2024 at 10:07 AM ^
SEC placed 5 in the final top 14 in 2023 (Georgia, Alabama, Missouri, Ole Miss, LSU)
B10 placed 3 (Michigan, Ohio State, Penn State) but that turns to 5 if you include new members (Washington and Oregon).
February 29th, 2024 at 11:48 AM ^
If you include new members - that SEC number becomes 6.
B1G/SEC teams in top 14 (using new members):
2023: 11/14
2022: 8/14
2021: 7/14
2020: 8/14
2019: 11/14
2018: 10/14
2017: 8/14
2016: 10/14
2015: 7/14
2014: 9/14
February 29th, 2024 at 3:58 PM ^
During that time Michigan would have had six playoff appearances, three final fours and a national championship.
That's not pertinent to this topic but it felt like it was worth saying just because.
February 29th, 2024 at 9:26 AM ^
What needs to happen is to have a playoff within each conference (4 team or 8 team) and then have each conf champion play in the playoffs. Maybe the mid majors have their own sub-playoff to send one team to the final playoffs.
February 29th, 2024 at 10:04 AM ^
"Meritocracy" is hard to chase in any model with autobids, because if you take last year's rankings, Penn State likely gets left out of a 14 team playoff despite being a Top 14 team (at #13) if G5 gets an autobid (I believe the proposed model would also give ND an autobid if they land in the top 14).
With autobids, it's probable that some team in the 13-14ish range is going to get left out of the playoff and all the conferences are scrambling to pick up more autobids to make sure that team isn't from their conference.
TBH, the most egregious $ play is ND getting an autobid if they are ranked in the top 14. There's no other team in the country that has that guarantee.
February 29th, 2024 at 10:46 AM ^
I disagree. The number of auto-bids needs to be proportional to the level of competition within each conference.
The B12 is super weak now. There's no way in heck they should have a similar number of teams in the playoff when they lack even a singular blue-blood team. Most seasons, even their conference champion will be undeserving of a spot in the playoff.
ACC is at least a step above the B12, but perhaps not a large step.
Starting this year, over-all record is a largely meaningless metric considering the new membership of the B1G and SEC. An 8-4 team from the B1G or SEC is probably a better team than a 1 loss or undefeated team from the B12 and/or ACC. That needs to be captured somehow and I don't trust any playoff selection committee to do such. Autobids will avoid the politics.
February 29th, 2024 at 12:40 PM ^
Ideally yes, but how do you do a Meritocracy when Big Ten and SEC teams play significantly harder schedules than the ACC, Mountain West, etc?
9 times out of 10 the Big Ten 4th best team would smoke the ACC/Mountain West/Big 12 runner up.
February 29th, 2024 at 1:16 PM ^
ESPN reported 3 autobids for SEC/B1G, 2 each for B12/ACC, 1 for G5.
February 29th, 2024 at 6:27 PM ^
If this keeps ND out, I am in favor
February 29th, 2024 at 7:59 PM ^
NCAA wrestling gives multiple automatic bids per weight class to the Big 10, so there is at least one sport. Also, college football has never been a meritocracy, why start now.
February 28th, 2024 at 11:47 PM ^
Sadly, the B1G wouldn’t have four legit teams for the top 14 most seasons.
Neither would the SEC. Yes, even with the new teams in each.
This is all so stupid. Keep it at 12 teams or go down to 8. Prove it on the field. Earn the right, then earn the money. It will incentivise good non-conference match-ups which the TV execs should love.
February 29th, 2024 at 12:01 AM ^
Really? Between Michigan, OSU, PSU, Oregon,USC with a very high chance of being top 14 historically and with teams like MSU, Wisconsin, Washington, Iowa, UCLA and Nebraska making runs every few years they won’t have four of the best teams? Even teams like Illinois, Northwestern have made the top 14 the last 20 years.
I would be curious how this has stacked up historically but just looking at those teams, to me it feels like out of that group you would have 4 of the top 14 every year.
February 29th, 2024 at 12:11 AM ^
Consider those teams all have to play each other in conference now. The 3rd and 4th best teams in the B1G will likely have 3 losses. I don’t think you should be in the top 14 with three losses, even if you are a really good 3 loss team.
Keep in mind, the SEC has no intent to move to 9 conference games and certainly will not give up their cupcake late season scheduling practice.
The B1G thinks they are partnering in kind with the SEC when things are not equal.
February 29th, 2024 at 12:20 AM ^
So you think a team like Liberty this year should get in ahead of a team like let’s say Oregon a team that crushed them in the bowl game, since Oregon could have very likely had three loses in the big ten?
Your point that the third best team in the big ten will have three loses works against you in my opinion. The whole point is because they are playing such a tough schedule relative to a sun belt school they need the protection that they will still have a chance to compete for a championship.
This system cannot work like pro sports because the level of competition conference to conference is so variable. Pro sports have built in safeguards to keep the competitive balance with salary caps and other such rules.
February 29th, 2024 at 12:22 AM ^
If you need “protection” to play for the Championship, maybe you don’t deserve it.
February 29th, 2024 at 12:29 AM ^
Then I guess fundamentally what makes a team deserving? If a team played the 12 worst teams in the country and was undefeated and another team played the top three and lost to all of them but then beat other ranked teams who is more deserving?How do you balance deserving vs who is the better team?
February 29th, 2024 at 9:01 AM ^
Exactly, if someone doesn't want the b1g and sec having more than one autobid, then remove all autobids so the winners of the scrub conferences have to "earn" it too. Not in top 16 by virtue of your product on the field? Sorry, you didn't "earn" it, or aren't "deserving". Most years it won't even matter, because the b1g and sec would get at least 3 each.
as a diary, someone should look at the final rankings for each year of the CFP and see how many each league would have had, with and without the recent conference alignments. I might even do it, if nobody beats me to it.
February 29th, 2024 at 7:06 AM ^
If you need “protection” to play for the Championship, maybe you don’t deserve it.
If you need an "artificial boost" to play in a 4 hour affair, maybe you should seek medical attention.
(I'll show myself out.)
February 29th, 2024 at 5:53 AM ^
Why, I thought everybody can buy their team now? The Yankees...I mean Alabama now has to actually compete to hide larger payoffs and that sent the GOAT scurrying. He already was bleating at this change (satellite camps and any other fair metric) and would be happy to meddle...er..lead efforts to be the head of "unbiased" change for the ESPN...I mean...SEC...I mean NCAA.
February 29th, 2024 at 9:10 AM ^
And that's exactly why the B1G/ SEC are asking for 4 autobids because there are people like you that want only 10-2 teams to make the playoff no matter who they played.
Losing to a great, good, or bad team should not all mean the same thing.
February 29th, 2024 at 9:35 AM ^
This is a bad argument. If you left out every team with 3 losses you wouldn’t have enough teams to make 14. Look at the polls, the #14 team always has at least 3 losses.
February 29th, 2024 at 9:00 PM ^
. I don’t think you should be in the top 14 with three losses, even if you are a really good 3 loss team.
I think it is pretty simplistic to only look at the number of losses to determine if a team is top 14. A team in the B1G or SEC could easily end up with three losses to teams in the top 10 while beating some other quality teams.
February 29th, 2024 at 10:36 AM ^
Historical CFP projections:
https://www.si.com/college/2022/12/21/college-football-playoff-history-with-12-team-field