2011-2012 Defensive Breakout Players
I don't normally start topics so I apologize if this is repetitive or it sucks, but I am just trying to see where you guys think the improvement will/HAS TO come from on D.
We can't necessarily count on this year's recruits to contribute a lot immediately, but I am wondering where our biggest improvements can/need to come from for our defense to be decent, or is it just too early to really discuss this because we don't know exactly what kind of defense we will run...
D-line...We know what to expect from MM, and hopefully we can get more out of Roh, but anyone else?
LB...Other than Demens continuing development, I've got nothing here.
Defensive backfield...Marvin Robinson? Avery? Christian? Obviously the return of T-Wolf and JT, but is that going to be enough to make the secondary decent?
January 20th, 2011 at 12:27 PM ^
Robinson standout at a safety position.
January 20th, 2011 at 12:28 PM ^
I think Cam Gordon will be improved, if for no other reason than actually knowing what his role is and what he is supposed to be doing.
Also, look for Jibreel Black to play well, especially in pass rushing situations.
January 20th, 2011 at 1:21 PM ^
i figure cam slides into a OLB role but i haven't heard anything official.
i like jake ryan a lot. i think he and wilkins will contibute in the rotation.
January 20th, 2011 at 3:58 PM ^
Does Cam Gordon have a position in this defense? I think it's safe to say he doesn't belong in the secondary, but I'm not sure if he is/will be big enough to play linebacker. Not being an ass, I have no idea.
January 20th, 2011 at 12:27 PM ^
like Furman and Ryan as well as Mike Jones coming back from injury. I think they could be sneeky good with a normal defense they're used to from high school
January 20th, 2011 at 12:28 PM ^
Quinton Washington. By all accounts he showed a lot of promise after being moved and with us going back to a 4-3, we'll need some guys to step up at DT.
January 20th, 2011 at 12:28 PM ^
D - Line: Jibreel Black, Quentin Washington, Ryan Van Bergen, and Ken Wilkins
LB: Isaiah Bell, Mike Jones, JB Fitzgerald, Marvin Robinson, Josh Furman, JAKE RYAN.
CB: Proper coaching, the returns of Floyd and Woolfolk, and a year's experience will make them better.
S: Carvin Johnson, Jordan Kovacs, Thomas Gordon and Cameron Gordon should all be improved.
January 20th, 2011 at 12:32 PM ^
Kinda left out Martin there...
January 20th, 2011 at 12:37 PM ^
Thread's about breakout players....I think it's safe to say the Big Ten knows Martin is a beast....
January 20th, 2011 at 12:33 PM ^
I like your choice with Isaiah in there, I think the kid is going to have a breakout year. Also Furman, with that speed it's hard to not have him out there.
January 20th, 2011 at 12:33 PM ^
...I am very interested in seeing where that guy stands after a year to mature and develop. He rarely gets mentioned, but is a guy who has the potential to turn some heads.
January 20th, 2011 at 1:01 PM ^
I agree! He won the Bednarik, Nagurski, and Lombardi awards his senior year in my NCAA 11 Dynasty!
January 20th, 2011 at 12:50 PM ^
This just reminds me about how much depth the Defense will have next year; that is the one advantage of playing so many young players and having a big recruiting class with a lot of redshirts last year. The D will be much better just because the coaches will be able to rotate 17-20 players rather than playing the same 11 guys the whole game. I think the D just wore down in some games in 2010 and that shouldn't happen with the improved depth.
January 20th, 2011 at 12:29 PM ^
Fitzgerald @ LB should hopefully improve. I'm hoping Hoke and the staff can get Big Will C. in the mix as well.
January 20th, 2011 at 3:55 PM ^
you want him to play linebacker?
...that would sure be something to behold
January 20th, 2011 at 12:29 PM ^
I think martin is going to have a beast of a year if healthy! I am hoping for a LB to step up and a DB...hopefully Demens and Floyd. Not sure how T-wolf is going to be health wise.
January 20th, 2011 at 12:30 PM ^
I am most interested in seeing whether some of the MIA highly touted recruits can emerge in the new system. Particular Campbell, Fitzgerald, and Bell.
To me the real wild card of this defense is free safety. Woolfolk is the best option but he's probably a corner. I did not hate C. Gordon there but he's probably an OLB. Could Marvin play there? Cullen Christian?
If Woolfolk is not FS the other 3 members of the secondary are fairly solid IMO (CB: Woolfolk, CB: Floyd, SS: Kovacs). But that makes FS potentially scary. Put Woolfolk there and CB gets a little scary. This is our conundrum. Glad that, more specifically, it is now Mattison's conundrum.
January 20th, 2011 at 1:37 PM ^
January 20th, 2011 at 1:41 PM ^
He was on the two deep last year as Kovacs backup. Its good to see he has some experience at both safety postions.
January 20th, 2011 at 12:30 PM ^
I really hope Roh becomes what I thought he could be after his freshman year. A BEAST.
January 20th, 2011 at 12:30 PM ^
I think Jibreel Black is going to be a really good player. He showed some flashes last year.
January 20th, 2011 at 12:32 PM ^
It seems a lot of talk (Spielman, etc.) towards the end of the year was about the defense just not knowing where to be and lining up incorrectly. My hope is that, in addition to individual player improvement, Greg Mattison will have his defense better prepared and lined up properly.
January 20th, 2011 at 12:34 PM ^
MIKE JONES!
January 20th, 2011 at 12:35 PM ^
I cant wait to see how we use Furman. I am sure he will continute to bulk up in the offseason and be ready to step up. I am also excite to see what C. Johnson can do with some more weight, experience and great coaching.
January 20th, 2011 at 12:35 PM ^
Surprise of the year? Gibbons as corner. 56 pic sixes. BkFinest it.
January 20th, 2011 at 12:45 PM ^
He's gotta score somehow.
January 20th, 2011 at 12:36 PM ^
I think Richard Ash will have a solid first year 6' 3" 320 lbs will be a force on the DL.
January 20th, 2011 at 12:39 PM ^
I don't expect him to be a breakout player this year, but I am excited about what the new emphasis on the defensive line does for Ash and for Talbott, especially with four years ahead of them. I think they get lost in all the BWC talk.
Jibreel Black would have to be the guy that I am expecting to be a rising star.
January 20th, 2011 at 12:37 PM ^
I think it sucks that Kovacs would be a really, really special player if he were a step quicker and an inch or two taller. But yea, I think the DB's in general are much better in the next two years.
Plus we're stocking up on an army of them in this class too.
January 20th, 2011 at 1:43 PM ^
I would have won the Heisman Trophy if I had been a few steps quicker, several inches taller, many pounds heavier and infinitely tougher...... alas...
January 20th, 2011 at 1:48 PM ^
Yea, but he's one smart football player. He had the instincts to walk onto the Michigan football team despite being small and slow. That says a lot just by itself.
January 20th, 2011 at 2:04 PM ^
He had the correct instincts to walk on to the Michigan football team, absolutely, in a year where this was the depth chart by the end of the 2009 season:
CB: Woolfolk, Warren, Floyd and Teric Jones (Turner RS)
S: Kovacs, Mike Williams and Emilien
It is unbelievable how terrible the depth chart was in the D-backfield in 2009. It looked terrible in HTTV when Cissoko was available and Kovacs wasn't even mentioned.
January 20th, 2011 at 2:30 PM ^
Yea, it was terrible. But he was pretty solid last season. At least from my (non football background) watching, he looked to be out of position a lot less than average for last years team, which was certainly welcome.
January 20th, 2011 at 12:37 PM ^
Big Willie - I would have to imagine that Hoke and Mattison can get him to actually be the mighty thor instead of just dressing like him....
January 20th, 2011 at 12:39 PM ^
Campbell...i think Hoke and Mattison should switch him back to the defense. the 2 of them should be able to bring out the promise this guy once had. he couldve been a beast, and i think theres still time if they can work their magic.
January 20th, 2011 at 12:46 PM ^
They already have moved him back to D, fwiw.
January 20th, 2011 at 9:45 PM ^
i had no idea, mustve missed that one. its a good move! RR shouldve never moved him in the 1st place
January 20th, 2011 at 12:39 PM ^
Mike Roh showed some promise this year i would hope he continues to improve, i wouldnt mind seeing a d-line by committee, where we are 2 deep at every spot so we can keep fresh legs out there all game
January 20th, 2011 at 12:41 PM ^
Wait, there's another Roh on the roster?
January 20th, 2011 at 12:43 PM ^
Craig roh, my fault
January 20th, 2011 at 12:43 PM ^
Who is Mike Roh? Craig Roh is going to be a junior DE.
January 20th, 2011 at 12:48 PM ^
I think you mean to imply Roh is going to be doing the cleanup. The dirty jobs, if you will.
January 20th, 2011 at 12:41 PM ^
If I had to name one at each unit I would say
DL-Washinton. By all accounts has quick feet, and appeared to be playing better near the end of the season in limited time.
LB- Furman. Too athletic not to see the field. 4.4 speed 210 pounds, can rush the passer.
DB- Vinopal. Going out on a limb. But very fast, and might be our best cover safety. For as much trouble as he had with power backs, I saw him pack a punch a few times. Leshoure in clutch situation, and knocked that Miss. State RB helmet off. Don's see a 190 lb safety do that often.
January 20th, 2011 at 12:56 PM ^
There is no way a good defense has a player like Ray Vinopal on the field before his redshirt junior year.
Not saying that the defense will be good next year (though I think it can be), but I don't think we'll see much of Vinopal beyond special teams and garbage time in 2011. Players like Carvin Johnson, Marvin Robinson or even Cullen Christian would be better free safeties, IME, than Vinogrit.
January 20th, 2011 at 1:51 PM ^
Should the Jets bench Jim Leonhard? How about Bob Sanders for Indy? Polomalu for Pittsburgh? I'm not sure who you are disrespecting white guys or short guys, but you obviously don't know jack shit about football. What evidence other than star ratings leads you to believe any of these players would be better safties than Vinopal?
Free safety is as much about anticipation and intelligence and play recognition than it is about speed and size.
January 20th, 2011 at 2:09 PM ^
My explanation is simple: I have no question in my mind that a guy like Vinopal can be a worthy contributor to a fine defense. However, there is no way he should have been playing last year.
The dagger blow for me in the 2010 season was the horrific sequence at the end of the first half of the Penn State game. PSU scores, Gallon OOB at the 2, three and out, PSU gets the ball back. This is the drive with the McGloin arm punt TD to Moye, I believe. Vinopal was the defender. He was 5 inches and 30 pounds shorter than the WR, he had no chance. It was not an issue of anticipation, intelligence or the like. Moye overpowered him, (and Vinopal was too slow in anticipation but that's just piling on a true frosh).
Eventually, with weight, experience and coaching, Vinopal can contribute. All things being equal, if you're going to play young guys, it's better to play the bigger, better athlete if experience is lacking with all the candidates. Vinopal had no chance to make that play against Penn State, it's no offense to him at all. Other bigger players such as C. Gordon might've been able to do something about Moye running that route.
January 20th, 2011 at 2:23 PM ^
Your argument makes little sense. So you are saying that T. Polamlu who I guess is 5'11 190lbs or Bob Sanders who is 5' 8" or Jim Leohnard who was a walk on at Wisconsin can't make plays against guy like B. Pettigrew who outweigh them by 50-70lbs and 5 inches or more? Do these guys get benched when they play against big players? These guys are all studs in the NFL but a kid like Vinopal can't make a play against a random Penn St tight end?
You see players like this playing all across the country. When LSU won the NC they had some white kid out there playing safety I can't rememeber and I think he ran about a 5.2 at safety. I exagerate, but the point is football is not all about 40 times and being 6' 4". You want a bigger athlete out there? If he doesn't know where to go it is completely pointless to have the player out there. I'll take the kid who knows where he is going every time over the big athlete. Did you watch Obi Ezeh play?
You were right about 1 thing he shouldn't have been playing. To judge them on anything you saw last year is completley pointless. Guys improve as they get older. Often times they improve a lot between their freshmen and sophmore seasons.
January 20th, 2011 at 2:27 PM ^
Yes, guys improve as they get older. That is exactly the point. He is saying that the combination of his size and athleticism, or lack thereof, with him being a freshman is what damns him. With experience, he can gain knowledge to make up for what he lacks physically.
January 20th, 2011 at 3:45 PM ^
You're talking about Craig Steltz, I believe. In 2007, when he was the captain of the LSU defense, he had played in 44 games, with 20 games as a starter. He was a team captain, a Thorpe Award finalist, a First-Team All-American. He was also 21 years old.
Despite all those accolades, he played in 4 games as a freshman, logging one measly tackle. And, he wasn't a full-time starter until 2007. A first team All American wasn't a first team starter until he was a senior. That's my point re: Vinopal. Steltz needed time, and he was very, very highly regarded coming out of HS.
Again, I don't think we're arguing about the same thing here. Vinopal can be a very good player for Michigan. He shouldn't be starting for Michigan until 2012 at the earliest, IME, and if he is, I fear for the defense.
January 20th, 2011 at 12:39 PM ^
I expect to see improvements all the way around. But, I'm interested to see what Campbell can do for us next year on the DL with the new staff. Would be nice to see JB Fitz and Roh have break out seasons