1997 team member comes forward victim of Robert Anderson
https://amp.detroitnews.com/amp/4939424002?__twitter_impression=true
As well as a former Michigan Hockey player who went on to play in the NHL
Sickening.
Not much to say with this other than it's going to continue to get WAY worse before it gets better.
(Also for those that don't click through, none of the players are named in this article.)
Channel 7 ran with this at the front end of the sports segment, and I was actually relieved no names were out there. We don't need to know who precisely, only that these victims finally get just compensation - whatever form this takes - for the injury done to them by the University's retention of this doctor for so long. We need to know that they are at last being heard.
Anderson was pure evil. I sincerely hope three things happen:
1. The victims are fairly compensated for being sexually assaulted. I have no idea how one arrives at a "fair" number for being violated by that's what our court system is for.
2. The University conducts a thorough investigation into who knew what and when did they know it. Anybody found out to have protected this bastard (and that means ANYBODY) should have their name removed from all things Michigan as if they never existed
3. Whoever the demon is assigned to torment Anderson for all of eternity gets an extra shipment of whatever they burn down there to shove up his ass for a millennia or two. I dont think i believe in Hell but in his case, I'm hoping I'm wrong.
This is a serious question: how do you suppose this guy justified his actions to himself? I'll bet you anything he didn't think of himself as evil.
Some combination of blaming the victims for their own abuse, thinking of the abuse as harmless and not seeing the victims as entirely human (and possibly all three at the same time).
There's a couple ways to look at it. He may not have thought of his actions as evil is definitely one of them. There is also the thought that he KNEW it was wrong, and taboo and that's what gave him the thrill to do it. Think like a serial shoplifter on a much grander (and worse) scale.
he probably figures that he grabs these guys' balls every year as part of their physical. no harm in grabbing them again as part of another exam. sick dude.
Professional in the field here -- there is wide variance in answers because understanding predatory sexual abuse is complex, few people have the stomach to learn about it (understandably), and it's very hard to construct a "study" into something like abuser patterns. Take it with a grain of salt and an understanding that no knowledge about child sexual abusers / serial perpetrators is considered "scientific fact" but rather best-practice field learning.
What I can say is that for whatever reason, abusers often don't create an accurate representation of Self in the formation of their ego and development of identity. So the answer to your question may be closer to "he actually didn't think of himself as Self in the way that you or I might." Alternatively, there may be no "justifying" one's actions at all, as the impulse to offend against children / vulnerable people might be seen as a "need" to the perpetrator, or something that can't be helped, like a bodily function.
Anyway, food for thought; I guarantee that this doesn't cover the breadth of it. Hopefully we don't learn that our legends like Bo or Lloyd were somehow implicated in looking the other way or covering up, but if so, I implore all of us to throw them in the trash. Let's not replicate the post-scandal JoePa worship seen in State College.
Yup.. pizzagate. Not about a basement of a pizza restaurant.
Much much bigger than anyone can imagine.
Cognitive dissonance will be intense. Buckle up
Sexual abuse is much bigger than most people imagine, but not because of some novel conspiracy; it's existed since people have. Call it pizzagate and wear a tinfoil hat, or maybe try thinking about it this way: one of the key mechanisms of sexual abuse is power, both in how it is wielded over victims and how it is sought in the act itself.
Is it any surprise, then, that institutions that hold so much power (like churches or arms of the state such as public universities) harbor people who seek and wield power over others?
Different question: what have you done to help "pizzagate" survivors?
On a tangent, when I was in undergrad, I somehow found some site about serial killers. It was basically Wikipedia for serial killers before there was a Wikipedia. Ended up going down the rabbit hole and reading about a lot of different killers. After a while I had this really weird uneasiness. It's hard to describe. It wasn't fear or disgust or anger. The best way to describe it is just being weirdly uncomfortable and uneasy about humanity in a broad sense. Some kind of existential discomfort. Took some time to feel normal again.
One thing that has always stuck with me is that the cops investigating Jeffrey Dahmer said they had never had a suspect so cooperative. He told them everything. He knew it was wrong (at least at times) but said he had this uncontrollable compulsion, almost like a 'need' as you say. He tried to make a pact with the devil to make it stop. He started killing more often hoping that it'd satiate him. He tried to escape when the cops found body parts in the fridge, but basically as soon as he was caught, he knew it was over and actually felt some kind of relief. I felt some sympathy for him actually. This certainly doesn't apply to all of them of course. Guys like John Wayne Gacy, Jr. were angry every second of their lives after they were caught. It was all everyone else's fault.
Getting upvoted now, but curious to see people’s points of view if some of our revered leaders are implicated and to what degree.
regardless, interesting times for certain.
It's entirely possible they told Lloyd and/or Red, for example. Or entirely possible they didn't, out of shame. We need to know.
Eventually we will get an official statement from that quarter. It's hard to imagine how it will satisfy anyone. But there are some fairly prominent people still around who are going to be asked what they knew.
Well then UM had better find a way to put together a credible investigation that goddamn tells everyone, with certainty, one way or the other if Bo, Lloyd, Red, etc. knew and ignored/protected Anderson.
Because, I’ll tell you one thing, if they come out with some mealy mouthed conclusion that says “Well, we don’t really know. Maybe they did, but there’s no real evidence. So, who knows?” That’s going to make the people under suspicion look guilty as hell to the wider public, and it’s going to make the current administration look like they still care more concerned about protecting reputations than the helping the victims.
If you listen to WTKA, there are conflicting reports of who is in charge of assigning team doctors. I think Craig said it was the health system, and someone else (don't remember) said it was the Athletic Department. It seems pretty clear he was fired from UHS in the early 70s (allegedly for similar behaviors), but was somehow reassigned to the AD. How that happened and who knew are critical facts in the investigation.
I would be surprised if much was known at the coaching level, mainly because this was over the coaches' heads. This was not limited to a single sport unlike the other B1G east scandals, it seems Anderson was a doctor who was assigned to multiple teams. If any of the coaches knew and did nothing, or if the AD knew and didn't do anything, that's a major individual failing from those people and I think we would all be more than disappointed by it.
It is still early in the investigation, so we will see what else comes out in the weeks and months ahead.
I'm saying it's the kind of thing a player might come to a coach about. Not saying either of them assigned Anderson or anything, but...it seems plausible they might have. Or the macho culture (especially twenty years ago) would make them not want to say anything.
I *really* don't want Lloyd or Red to have known anything.
Almost certainly someone or some people in leadership positions knew something about what this creep was doing. Other than the victims, all we've heard from people who were around said he seemed fine and they heard of no problems. It doesn't add up. But my guess is that it will be hard to find actual evidence of someone knowing unless a few incriminating memos are dug up or a credible witness from back in the day comes out with details and names.
Well, the only way #2 happens is, IMHO, is UM hires a highly respected independent investigator and gives that person carte blanche to go wherever the evidence leads him/her, with no sacred cows.
I see the odds of that being roughly 50/50 at this point. It seems highly likely such a report would not be very favorable to a lot of powerful and/or popular individuals, some living and some deceased. So the impetus for the school to not take this step is going to be pretty strong with many people.
However, at the rate this whole thing has been growing, UM may soon be forced into a position where they have to take such action if they’re going to be able to cleanly cut away the rot, instead of it continuing to drag on for potentially years.
Of course an independent investigation doesn’t guarantee anything. The ink on the Freeh report, saying how basically everyone at PSU had cowered to Paterno and let Sandusky prey freely for decades, was barely even dry before people at the school, like Paterno’s asshole son, screamed how it was a flawed investigation that was only out to smear decent people.
And this is why we can't just say "oh it was 50 years ago." This asshole did this for several decades and it looks like some people within the University were aware of it and either did nothing or punished the victims instead of the molester.
The guy is dead and so are many of the names being thrown around for who's involved, but it doesn't mean we can just pass this by. We need to air every detail out and be fully transparent while also compensating and helping the victims as much as possible.
This guy was an awful human and the university needs to make this right by whatever means necessary. Period.
yeah, I think everyone wants to know to what extent the various people in charge at the time (AD, the head of his department, Pres, Board etc.) knew about this.....even though many of the people involved are likely no longer with us, there needs to a full breakdown of what happened in addition to victim's compensation fund
Can someone tell me what specifically he was doing ? How did grown men allow this ?
Yes, that was the problem here and at OSU, the victims weren't manly enough.
He's right.
Think about it. If you're Mike McQueary for example in the locker room, how do you not beat the shit out of Sandusky rather than sneaking out of there and sitting on it.
Apparently he wasn't manly enough either. Nary a real man to be found among the all the men who knew about these situations. You keyboard warriors are the only real men left.
God bless the Trollcave. Can only imagine what nonsense he must’ve posted to warrant this response.
Trollcave = chicken shit with thin skin. Fuck you Walmart Douchebag. I was commenting on the notion of how do adults let these things happen?!
The troll cave is in fact not very manly.
Seriously you are on the internet. Type Robert Anderson into a search browser.
Yeah, let’s blame the victims. Good job.
Not victim blaming. Honestly don't Understand how this happens. And someone attempted to rape me once...so dont say I don’t understand.
That has nothing to do with this. Terry Crews was molested, is he not a grown man?
So with Doctors at MSU, OSU and UofM all sexually abusing dozens/hundreds of patients, it seems like this is a more wide spread issue than even just the Universities. Doesn't let any of the universities off of the hook, but what is the [AMA] or whatever governing body doing to prevent this type of abuse? How common is this?
Columbia and USC as well. For ones I know of off the top of my head.
I have no doubt about that there are many more instances at other places. We, as a culture, do not question doctors. While the victims knew, people they told--if they told--didn't believe them or didn't want to know. That's why it can go on for hundreds of victims.
So much for the moral high ground that people here loved to take when it was MSU. Heads better roll at the University, no matter who they are/were.
Heads should roll if there are head to roll. A good deal of the allegations are very old, like early 1970s old. It is possible that there are people on staff who knew of the allegations, but it is very possible that there is not any longer. With a lot of the prominent people in the major sports (Manuel, Harbaugh, Howard), it would be much more likely that one was a victim than part of a cover-up.
Which is exactly the same shit Joepologists said: "these allegations are old"... "punishment will only hurt the current players", etc.
Did you actually read the post you were responding to? Because I don’t think you did
I think he did, but his entire goal in this thread is to start shit by any means necessary.
That's all he does on here. The most amusing part is him spending all day today writing multiple replies to someone that he knows has him blocked.
LOL
I know you have me blocked. I want others to see your assclownery.
Are you 12 years old?
You seem like the type of dude that would cut in front of a kid waiting in line for an autograph...
Ehh the moral high ground will be decided by the response. If they take my advice of “imagine what John Engler would do and do the opposite” they may be able to uphold the values of the university and do as much justice as is possible given the circumstances
I have a feeling that this is going to get a lot worse before it gets even slightly better.
Just hope Michigan has learned from the mistakes of its predecessors. For god's sake, don't try to hide anything. In this day and age, there are no such things as kept secrets anymore. Only truths that are waiting to be unveiled.
Be transparent, own up to the mistakes your institution made, go scorched earth on anyone who committed or helped commit these atrocities and erase them from all things Michigan, and do what you can to make things right for the victims.
Sounds like U-M is doing a much better job handling this now and is serious on getting to the bottom of it.
What exactly are you basing this statement on?
So far it seems they are handling it well. Not all of the information has been gathered as more victims have come forward since the story broke and may exceed the scope the university and police originally investigated. That said it isn’t near as bad or nasty as what msu was doing towards victims!