1:40 to Kickoff on Saturday - Two Pictures, One Problem and One Proposed Solution
These two pictures were taken yesterday approximately 1:40 away from kickoff. The top picture is the alumni section and the bottom picture is the corresponding student section. One is full and one is approximately 25% empty. A lot of people both here on the board and in the stands are asking why this is happening and looking for answers on how to stop it.
Student attendance is a problem that is new (to Michigan anyways) and using positive reinforcement (The Hail program) didn't work. Negative reinforcement (General Admission) appears to also not be working if the goal is to get students to the games on time. And make no mistake from my perspective - I WANT the students to show up. They are loud, they are enthusiastic and they make the entire gameday environment better when they are there in force. But, I'd rather they were there from the beginning of the game and not midway into the first quarter to make their presence felt.
Here is my proposal on how to remedy this rather new student attendance issue:
- Discontinue general admission. Students have always had seating assigned based on their class and this should not change. Freshman should get the least desirable seats and Seniors should be rewarded. It was that way when my dad was there in the late 40's, for me in the late 70's and it should be that way now. General admission, in my opinion, is a mistake and should be ended.
- Stop discounting the price of student tickets. Students should pay the same rate as the rest of us for the seat and if that is too expensive for the student (or their parents) to afford then they always have the option of not purchasing them. This should weed out those who buy them without truly wanting to use them.
- Allow students unfettered rights to buy and sell tickets to anyone that wants to buy them. The free market will then determine if those seats have value and for how much. And if they are going to pay the same price as me to buy the seat, they should have the same freedom I do to sell that ticket for whatever the market says it's worth and to anyone who wishes to buy it. I sold two extra seats to the Notre Dame game for $300 each. I sold the same two tickets to Akron for $20 each. Give the students the same freedom as I have to buy and sell their seat.
We have fantastic students who make the Big House loud and an extremely difficult place to play for opposing teams (just ask Notre Dame). And I don't believe "punishing" them through general admission will make them show up for games earlier or in greater numbers. But making them pay the market rate for their seat might make those who arent really sure about football think twice before buying. And letting them sell that seat to whoever wants it is only fair.
EDIT: GoBlue20111 accurately points out the flaw in my proposal in that it depends on somebody holding mulitiple seats as I do to be able to sell one ticket at a profit while still attending the game. And students don't hold multiple seats so my idea wouldnt really fix anything for less attractive games. Mods can leave the post up or take it down if they chose - my idea is flawed and I see that now. The problem is real though and while my solution may not solve it we are need to acknowledge it exists.
October 7th, 2013 at 12:11 PM ^
My overall point is that in the end, this is still a college football game played by college kids. The college kids should be able to enjoy the game the way they want. It's not up to the rest of us to judge. I was a freshman in '97 and most of the people I went to the games with were only mildly interested in a national championship level team. Everyone just isn't as into it as people on mgoblog are.
The other issue is that with prices as they are (and we have to assume they'll stay that high) the university needs wealthy passionate people to pay those prices. I think they're already losing a generation of young fans (my two kids included) because people can't afford to bring them. Now, alienate and piss off the students (future passionate wealthy fans) and I think a future lack of demand is coming down the road.
So, I think it's the right thing to do to cater to the students and it's also the long term financially correct decision.
October 6th, 2013 at 11:59 PM ^
Maybe they want to have another smoke before they enter
October 7th, 2013 at 12:30 AM ^
As a student, there is no way in hell we would pay full price for student tickets. The student section, while fun, is crowded, loud, and overall not worth 75-90 bucks a ticket.
October 7th, 2013 at 12:32 AM ^
October 7th, 2013 at 2:00 AM ^
When I was a student in the 80s, I had a job Saturday mornings but still could race home, get to my favorite parking spot, get in my seat within 5 minutes with 10 minutes to spare before kick off. The student section lines look so long it now takes 15 to 20 minutes to get to your seats. Most students are procrastinator. They may have jobs or have to study and cannot get to the game an hour early.
October 7th, 2013 at 9:21 AM ^
about where people sit and whether they're students or not.
For time immemorial, games could be sold out and some sections would not be full. A game the week after midterms might be a weekend some of the freshmen could go home, the week of midterms iffy, one against a cupcake just not appealing enough regardless of the cost of the seat, or 50-yead-line seats empty because the weather is bad.
Get over it and concentrate on what's important. If you're there, make sure you're heard. If not, watch it however you can.
If the ticket is paid for, the team has been financially supported. There is no other place I can think of where where people believe that just because you bought a ticket, you have to attend.
October 7th, 2013 at 9:58 AM ^
halfway through the first quarter. A few small empty spots but nothing dramatic. Just some late-arriving students.
October 7th, 2013 at 10:26 AM ^
I feel like this debate comes back every couple weeks and the alums/fans still don't listen to the information provided by the students. When this was announced, virtually every student said this was a terrible policy and would not work. So far, it has been a complete and utter failure in its one goal, to make the student section look good on TV.
Students came in force to the opener and the Notre Dame game. Guys, students have always come in force to these games. Go look at the home openers from 2011 and 2012 and the first UTL game. The student section was full. The real test was always going to be these midseason games against non-interesting opponents. Akron and Minnesota have been perfect examples that general admission does not work.
I wrote about this last year, but the problem is that the athletic department is just punishing the students that already showed up on time and wanted to see the games. Punish students that show up late and miss games. The basketball seating policy is a start, but won't work effectively in football. Go back to the traditional seating and punish students for tickets scanned late or games missed. Have a 3 point rule. You start with 3 points. You lose 2 points for missing a game and 1 point for getting in late. If you have 0 points, you move back in seating next year and if you are at like a -6 or something, you move back another round, and beyond that you lose the ability to buy seats next season. This would motivate students to show up and if they didn't show up, the problem would fix itself by the next season.
Also, the Hail program is not applicable here The only thing that program encourages is students to attend random athletic events like lacrosse and swimming since all events are pretty much valued the same and there are only a few football games. I think it's good for this purpose, but football has next to no impact on its function.
October 7th, 2013 at 11:04 AM ^
"I feel like this debate comes back every couple weeks and the alums/fans still don't listen to the information provided by the students."
Not true. I listened and have actually gone almost 180% from initial position and now would almost advocate free tickets on a "first come-first served" basis until the place is full. I had NO idea our version of GA forced students to sit where told by ushers and not where they wanted. That is beyond stupid and needs to be changed immediately. I listened when Bando pointed out the adversarial stance the Athletic Department is taking with students and the long-term damage it will undoutably cause.
Long and short of it for me is pretty simple. I WANT THE STUDENTS AT THE GAME! They make the place exponentially louder, more intimidating and candidly fun for everyone else. And whatever it takes to make that happen I will support.
October 7th, 2013 at 11:56 AM ^
Don't equate the (deserved) criticism of the students as being supportive of Brandon's GA policy.
I was always mystified by what it was supposed to accomplish. Clearly, it hasn't worked, and in the meantime makes a bad situation look worse. So I am no advocate of General Admission. And I am very, very sympathetic to the MGoStudents' complaints about how GA has been working for them. The students have done a good job of articulating their complaints and have made a good case. I'd be as pissed off as any of you, if I had to put up with GA, wanting to get a good seat for the game with friends who really wanted to watch football.
October 7th, 2013 at 12:07 PM ^
I wish I could agree with this, but the amount of approval this policy received when it was first instituted was incredible from the fans and alums. Only now that it's been failing are a lot of people starting to question the effectiveness of a plan that has been a negative towards students all along. The suppport wasn't universal for sure, but there were plenty of "well this was overdue" and "finally" comments when this came about. My criticism has always been that the students receive no input on these decisions and they're the body that is most effected by these decisions.
October 7th, 2013 at 1:14 PM ^
...it was no doubt fueled by the startlingly late appearance by the students over repeated weeks. People may simply have wanted "something" to be done. Isn't that how about half of our laws get passed in various legislative bodies?
I don't mind helping the students oppose GA. I don't like how it is working.
But what is the student suggestion to alleviate the grossly lax attendance and late-arrival practices of their fellow students? Given all other current conditions that cannot be changed; that is the current schedule, current game times, and pricing constraints. Should we cut down on the number of student tickets that are sold? Students can still get tickets at the same (current) prices; they can sell them amongst fellow students at will; but we will just cut down significantly on the number of student tickets being sold, so that we get only the most devoted students attending games, and we turn over a significant portion of student seating to higher-priced customers who will additionally pay a modest PSD. Is that an acceptable answer?