Michigan QBs in the Pros, 1969-now

Submitted by PopeLando on October 28th, 2020 at 6:17 PM

So it was posted in thread about Rick Mirer's son that Jim Harbaugh was the first Michigan QB to throw an NFL TD pass in decades, and this little factoid is what kept Mirer from being a Michigan commit. I wanted to see 1) was this true, and 2) how bad did it get? Did Harbaugh kick off the period of Michigan's success in getting QBs to the NFL, or was he a blip? Exactly how much water is Tom Brady carrying for us in the League?

I tried to organize this around when these guys were Michigan's starters, but there's some fuzziness to that due to injury, transfers, and decisions like "let's turn Devin Gardner into a wide receiver then ask him to start at QB after we forgot to have any other reasonable backup" and "let's bench Devin Gardner for Shane Morris to motivate him."

Let's start with the Bo years:

So...yeah, Jim Harbaugh can say that he was the one successful NFL QB that Bo produced.

Next up are the all-too-short Moeller years:

That's solid success, even if two data points isn't a track record. Both Grbac and Collins had long, long careers, and coupled with Harbaugh, who was still in the League at the time, you can see why the Michigan QB started to be someone you paid attention to. You can also argue that Carr rode Moeller's coattails from a recruiting perspective, but that would be a bit of a disservice to the teams that Carr put together in the late 90s.

So, the Carr years:

Here's a mind-bender: when Chad Henne entered the NFL, Scott Dreisbach was just retiring from the AFL. Carr sent EVERYONE to the NFL, even if all they got was a cup of coffee, or, if you're Drew Henson, a sad dose of reality. I included Matt Gutierrez and Ryan Mallett, because why not - I don't think Michigan 'owns' their NFL success or lack thereof, but they were part of the program...even if I was rooting for Manningham to punch Mallett on the sideline during that one Wisconsin game where he kept completing passes to the WRs' feet.

At one point during this era, here were the Michigan QBs playing some form of pro football all at once: Harbaugh, Grbac, Collins, Dreisbach, Griese, Brady.

Ok, grab your ice cream and turn on The Notebook, because we're about to eat our feelings. Here's the Dark Times:

Ok, so RichRod got a bit of a bum start, with the Feagin fiasco, then trying to make Threet/Sheridan workable. Sheridan's Wisconsin game was the sole bright spot of the season. Threet found some success at Arizona State after transferring, but decided to retire after a LOT of concussions.

Tate Forcier was Johnny Manziel before there was Johnny Manziel. Also without the success. But given that he was the only one on the roster who could even vaguely quarterback, he did really well. Probably was never going to be a pro success. Also, he had to deal with the Michigan fanbase going, "wait a second, weren't you named Jason last year?"

If we're being honest, Denard probably wasn't ever going to be a pro QB either, but damned if Hoke and Borges didn't snuff that little flame of hope even so. Between the stories of Hoke being more interested about Gardner's status, then refusing to acknowledge obvious injuries, then refusing to put together a competent offense aside from RichRod's holdovers, Denard still managed to be the most exciting player in football his whole career. By the end of it, he couldn't throw a pass.

I can't even say Gardner's name without feeling sorry for the guy. There's actually an error here: he wasn't drafted, he was signed as a free agent. [I'm not going to edit the spreadsheet and take save a new jpeg, sorry.] Usually when people get drafted/signed by the Patriots it means they're going to get a decent shot at a job, but...not with QBs. It probably would have been better if he'd gone to a slightly more...in-flux...team, but if there's anyone who fought against a coaching staff determined to break their spirit, it's Gardner.

Morris, as much as Gardner, is an indictment on the Hoke Era, because 1) Hoke & Borges staked the team's entire future on the assumption that he'd work out, 2) he got starts over Gardner for non-injury reasons, 3) as far as I can tell nobody bothered to coach him - he threw only a risky fastball when he got here and only threw a risky fastball when he played, and, of course 4) the Shane Morris Fiasco (tm). He spent his year under Harbaugh in a weird and ineffective WR package.

I have to move on for my own sanity. HARBAUGH:

There isn't much to base any kind of narrative around here. This isn't like the Carr transition, where Moeller clearly started something special, left the cupboard STOCKED, and the rest is history. If Harbaugh gets credit for developing Rudock, he also gets the blame for whatever John O'Korn did while he was here. Speight was on an upward trajectory before injury, and we need to remember that Brandon Peters also had his head taken off a couple times. QBs can be broken. Everyone else gets an incomplete, except for Patterson, whose window for professional football is, by his own hand, closed.

We're also in an era of unprecedented mobility: top QBs who lose competitions are more likely to transfer. The pressure is there for QBs to excel on Day 1 or not at all, meaning development time is compressed and the question of who "owns" a QB's NFL success, or lack thereof, will become even more murky than it already is.

So where does that leave us? Brady and Henne are still in the NFL, as is Rudock albeit on a practice squad. That's three careers which probably won't last much longer, and then we're back to "it's been XX years since a Michigan QB has thrown an NFL touchdown pass."

Comments

stephenrjking

October 28th, 2020 at 6:48 PM ^

Good post. Michigan's run of QBs starting with Grbac was great. No shame in being a long-term backup, either, as Collins and Henne have been. To do that, you have to be good enough to step in and win games, as both have. I believe Collins actually outlasted Griese in the League, if I'm not mistaken, and Henne looks like he'll produce the second-longest NFL career of any Michigan QB.

Then there's that one guy who has started for a long time and is still there. I was a 16-year-old sitting in the end zone when he attempted his first college pass against UCLA. My oldest (of four) daughter will be that old in a year and a half. 

rdlwolverine

October 28th, 2020 at 8:11 PM ^

Larry Cipa was a back up to Dennis Franklin and started 3 games for the New Orleans Saints in 1974-75, throwing 1 TD in 1975.  He would have started in the 1974 Rose Bowl if the AD's had sent Michigan instead of OSU after Franklin got hurt in 10-10 tie, assuming Franklin had not recovered in time from his broken collarbone.

blueheron

October 28th, 2020 at 8:19 PM ^

Great post, PopeLando. What's amazing is how internally consistent those eras are. Moeller & Carr = almost all good. Everything beyond that = almost all not great.

Bo? I think it's a bit damning. It underlines what how much of a regional phenomenon he was. No wonder the Big Ten had such a lousy Rose Bowl record in the '70s and '80s ...

I think your N/A section for Nick Sheridan needs editing:

https://iuhoosiers.com/sports/football/roster/coaches/nick-sheridan/2858

stephenrjking

October 29th, 2020 at 11:08 AM ^

I'm not sure about the QB issue; in that era, with the guys Bo had, it seems more startling to me that Michigan had so few RBs prosper in the NFL. 

Oklahoma and Nebraska and USC were extremely successful in that era, and they didn't really produce NFL QBs. It was a different game. Dan Marino, one of the great NFL QBs of all time, went to Pitt. His senior season statline: 221-378 (58.5%) 2432 yards, 6.4 yards/attempt, 17 TDs, 23 (!) INTs. Dan. Marino.

Instead, we remember the RBs from that era. Tony Dorsett and Marcus Allen and Herschel Walker and so many others. It was the RBs, not the QBs, that were dominating the game back then. For all of its emphasis on the run, Michigan has never produced a running back that was even remotely a Heisman contender. 

As the game changed, Michigan remained in the upper crust of college football, and our QBs became NFL staples. It is, thus, quite telling that since Henne has left, we haven't had much in the way of NFL QB prospects, and the program has significantly underachieved. These are not coincidental issues. 

 

PopeLando

October 29th, 2020 at 11:37 AM ^

I didn't put this commentary into the diary, but IMO - and remember, I know nothing Jon Snow - is that Carr's infuriating "the expectation is for the position" philosophy is actually the RIGHT approach if your goal is to get QBs into the NFL.

Why? Because, infuriatingly, that's how the NFL thought during that time period (it's gotten a bit looser recently, but still is pretty rigid). The NFL treats college football like a minor league, expecting players - QBs especially - to arrive fully trained. Hence the annual article bashing spread offenses and how they lead to undertrained QBs. There are maybe 4-5 teams in the NFL who are open to actually training their quarterbacks, the rest expect perfection on Day 1. Except for the Browns, who just YOLO their QBs onto the field and hope for the best.

Bo famously didn't care about the world outside of the Big Ten. Rodriguez famously shunned pro-style offense. Hoke famously shunned offense in general.

I can't help you with the RB situation - I agree that it's a bit of mystery.

MH20

October 29th, 2020 at 10:29 AM ^

Also, not that it really matters but that Wisconsin game was a Threet game as I'm sure we all remember him thundering down the open field, looking like a sure touchdown lay ahead, before being tracked down from behind.

Unless you are referring to that Minnesota game, and then yeah, that was a Sheridan game.

All in all a very interesting and well-done diary. I immensely enjoyed the little throwaway comments in the stats column for some of the, ahem, less successful guys.

PopeLando

October 29th, 2020 at 11:23 AM ^

Yes, thank you. I did mean Minnesota. We should definitely never forget THE Steven Threet run.

2008 Wisconsin was a full team effort:

Kevin Koger caught a receiving TD

Brandon Minor and Sam McGuffie rushed for TDs

And the hero of the game, John Thompson, returned an INT for a TD

 

We should also give major props to Martavious Odoms for the work he put in during 2008. Dude set records that still stand (I believe his freshman receiving record is still on the books). And then Al Borges and Hoke decided that short wide receivers don't get to play football (remember how reluctantly they played Gallon and Dileo until it became clear that they were special?)

Gitback

October 29th, 2020 at 2:27 PM ^

Here's an interesting bit of Trivia:

During the 1999 season every AFC West team had a Michigan QB on the roster, 3 of them starters.

- Harbaugh (San Diego)

- Grbac (Kansas City)

- Griese (Denver)

- Dreisbach (Oakland) [IR]

Dreisbach was actually showing out that year in preseason for the Raiders, who LOVED him, and then he broke his leg against the Cowboys.  I remember watching, and rooting HARD for him and then seeing that play happen.  It was awful.  He was an awesome talent, and an even better person.  It was just one fluke injury after another for him.  

AC1997

October 29th, 2020 at 2:54 PM ^

Since the 1990s are when I was at Michigan this post resonated with me.  A few follow-up thoughts:

  • Another back-up QB during the late Carr era was Clayton Richard.  He was a highly sought after lefty prospect himself and was part of the QB depth chart competition with Chad Henne.  He got some mop-up duty in 2004 and then decided to focus on baseball.  He went on to have a 10+ year career in the MLB.
  • Jay Riemersma was the #3 QB behind Grbac and Collins in 1992.  He took the Gentry route and switched to TE - where he ended up having a solid NFL career.
  • Andy Mignery also went the QB-to-TE route and made it to a training camp with the Patriots (continuing the theme).  
  • Antonio Bass is worthy of a "what could have been" mention.  Chances are that Carr wouldn't know what to do with an athletic running QB - especially with Henne as the starter.  But before serious injury we were intrigued with his potential.

I always felt for Gardner the most on this list.  Had he been a little older he would have been able to play in the RichRod offense that likely best suited his skills.  Had he been a little younger he could have played with Harbaugh behind a real OL with a competent OC.  

AC1997

October 29th, 2020 at 2:56 PM ^

One thought on Harbaugh, the former QB-whisperer and Milton.  Obviously Harbaugh's reputation as a great developer of QBs has taken a hit lately at Michigan.  But perhaps it is worth remembering that Milton is the first starter under Harbaugh that was both recruited and developed by him.  

Rudock - Transfer

Speight - Holdover from Hoke

O'Korn - Transfer

Patterson - Transfer

Milton/McCaffrey - Recruited

 

PopeLando

October 29th, 2020 at 3:22 PM ^

I thought about Antonio Bass, but you can't call him a starting QB. The day he got hurt was a dark day for Michigan football - Bass was Lloyd's last attempt at innovation. And, of course, Henne was a firmly entrenched starter who wasn't going to be displaced.

Here's some food for thought: had Bass been healthy, he would have been RichRod's first QB. How different does 2008 look with Antonio Bass taking snaps? [cries uncontrollably]...

Thanks for filling in some context above - this diary is definitely incomplete.

stephenrjking

October 29th, 2020 at 11:59 PM ^

You're forgetting Peters. He acquired O'Korn and Patterson and recruited Peters and McCaffrey, and also oversaw a significant decline in Wilton Speight. This is his sixth season. Milton looks very promising, but the QB position has been a huge disappointment in the last few years. And he's had hand-picked guys to work with. 

Don

October 31st, 2020 at 1:47 AM ^

It’s no surprise Bo spawned just one QB—the offenses he ran were light years away from being standard NFL pro-set offenses until Wangler showed he could get the ball to Carter more reliably than BJ Dickey. And even with Wangler and Smith, the passing attack was pretty rudimentary. Smith was also much shorter than the 6-0 he was listed by the program. Harbaugh had prototypical size and arm strength for the NFL of the day.

Brewers Yost

October 31st, 2020 at 4:01 AM ^

IMO the Bears win the SB if Griese gets put in at halftime instead of sticking with Rex Gross Man.

Not a Bears fan just an observation I remember having watching that particular SB.